We should be able marked improvement regardless of results but the bottom line is going to be finals.

If we fail to make finals, he'll likely be gone. If we make it, he's safe.

Goodwin needs a quick out of the boxes start and if he can help achieve a good start then it will go a long way in making the finals.

Finals is the aim with at least a win and then  we can reassess.  No looking back or we will slip and fall.   So no slipping. 

Making the finals  is a priority and you need your best two or three  playing well to help drag us over the line and the rest will follow. 

However you see it if you don't play finals then  it is a total waist and a fail in many  supporter's view.

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Too many variables to put absolutes on it, though I think anyone saying Top 4 is kidding themselves. Maybe next year if all goes well this season, but the distance between us and the genuine Top 4 sides is still a chasm.

But what I'd be looking for more than anything is consistency, lack of which was our undoing this year.

And that is what we need to do next season, start beating the top 4 sides throughout the season or at least 2 of them. About time we stood up and start knocking off the likes of the Tigers then make finals and win, win and win. 

Finals is a pass mark.

At the end of the day a flag. Anything less is crap. I have waited long enough.

Im usually softly in the Goodwin-peasement camp. But, considering we have a defence built by him, a midfield built by him, the best ruckman, a top 3 afl matchwinner in trac and a top 3  forward fall into his lap for free and 3-young talented rookies. 

Top 4. 15-16 wins. It aint getting better than this. 

11 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The first hurdle is a decent start to the season and getting to the bye with say a record of no less than 6-4.

If he's less than that the media pressure will be so  enormous that his imminent sacking will become the story.

This is the best list we are likely to have for the next five years (Gawn declining, Hibberd declining etc). Scraping in with a late charge doesn't cut it with me.

I also want to see a 50/50 or more win loss ratio with top 8 clubs. No good beating the bottom 8 if our gameplan fails against the top 8.

Writing Gawny off already!!!!

last para that's exactly what happened this season Pies 9/1/7 Us 9/8 

And its a marathon not a sprint first half vs 2nd half it's total wins that count not what you are at Round 5, 10 or 15 but 22.Then you start another mini season for Finals.

5 hours ago, dl4e said:

At the end of the day a flag. Anything less is crap. I have waited long enough.

That's the Club not Simon's results which could be Top4 finish  or 4-8 position with side issues eg injuries.

Finals and consistency and results should take care of themselves in terms of wins. 

11 hours ago, BW511 said:

Saw a snippet of David King talking about Carlton’s chances in 2021, one remark he made stood out to me as very relevant to Melbourne.

I’m paraphrasing a little, but he said building for a flag is more important than aiming to make finals. If your aim is to make finals, you’ll just be a middle of the road team indefinitely - I know King flops around depending on which way the wind blows, but we need to be working towards becoming ready to win a flag, rather than just making finals. The most important position for us to finish in this year is as a really genuine flag contender for 2022 (if not 2021)

Here we go its 2022 now

always next year with this mob

10 hours ago, Pates said:

The talent is there, it's making the pieces of the puzzle fit that we need to improve, as well as a big shift in attitude about pressure (that is something we are well off the pace on).

In other words game plan and intensity. Both the responsibility of the coaching group imv. 

No more drop-offs in game and oppo defenders rebounding gleefully, midfield to function better and optimise Maxy ruckwork (Yze to sort this out) and better conversion of I50's to scores and we will make Top 4. 

Bulldogs, Saints and collingwood made finals this year and all miles off the flag. Competing with these teams to win a final doesn't cut it for me. Either we're mixing it will the big boys next season or Simon has to go. 5 years in that has to be the expectation. Plus, I though Roos handed him a finals ready list 4 years ago!

17 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

In other words game plan and intensity. Both the responsibility of the coaching group imv. 

No more drop-offs in game and oppo defenders rebounding gleefully, midfield to function better and optimise Maxy ruckwork (Yze to sort this out) and better conversion of I50's to scores and we will make Top 4. 

Bulldogs, Saints and collingwood made finals this year and all miles off the flag. Competing with these teams to win a final doesn't cut it for me. Either we're mixing it will the big boys next season or Simon has to go. 5 years in that has to be the expectation. Plus, I though Roos handed him a finals ready list 4 years ago!

Getting the players to buy in on the team first mindset is the single biggest challenge this coaching group has.  I've posted a few times that individually of midfielders are good players but as a midfield group they are extremely poor.  Same as our forward group they just don't seem to work well together, I always found it frustrating for a lot of games our forward entries were long to about 25m out from goals but we never had any crumbers at the contest, if we know the ball is most likely going there this shouldn't happen, it does because everyone wants the ball.

This is what I want to see team football, if we get this right the results will take care of themselves, if we don't our coaching group has failed

There is no pass mark for Goodwin. He's already failed. Last season was the season he needed to get us in the top 8, and probably top 4 but we played some awful footy. must go asap

5 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

There is no pass mark for Goodwin. He's already failed. Last season was the season he needed to get us in the top 8, and probably top 4 but we played some awful footy. must go asap

Tend to agree Doctor

Positives - Had the best preseason ever, Fitness was fantastic due to Burgess and few injuries

Negatives - incomprehensible game plan, players playing out of position, lack of teamwork and desire, bizarre coaching and selection moves and poor communication with the stakeholders

On the whole a fail and my view was  then and and continues to be, Goodwin wasted the year and really should be gone.

I still have a problem determining what will change this year regards Goodwins' input

If as some here suggest Yze will make all the difference then why the hell do we need Goodwin

 

as per the club's expectations, finals is a pass mark

anything less than that and he'll obviously be out of a job

my personal expectation is that we win one final, minimum

Can't see us making top four unless Brown has a huge impact. Finals and winning a final is a must.

A pass would be a discernible and changeable game plan (when required) to stop teams kicking multiple goals in quick succession.

The MFC can longer measure success by finals/ ladder positions etc. There is only one thing that we should be aspiring to - it is a premiership. As others have said we have all waited far too long. One of the reasons IMO we haven't had the ultimate success is that we seem scared to talk about that being the goal/objective. That needs to stop NOW ! From today every single person associated with the MFC should be working/preparing/thinking a premiership is the only result that is acceptable.

Time to HTFU and stop making up the numbers 

 

14 hours ago, bing181 said:

Too many variables to put absolutes on it, though I think anyone saying Top 4 is kidding themselves. Maybe next year if all goes well this season, but the distance between us and the genuine Top 4 sides is still a chasm.

But what I'd be looking for more than anything is consistency, lack of which was our undoing this year.

There's always going to be variables, such as injuries, Covid, unfortunate bye timings etc.

However, if you look at the majority of our existing stats they are encouraging, we averaged amongst the lowest inside 50s against, Port and Collingwood were by far the best but then the Tigs, Cats and Dogs are all around a similar mark. While our inside 50s are close to the majority of the finalists. I would hope with the changes we made during the season, and then with bringing in BBB you would hope our conversion rate is increased (we kicked as many goals as Collingwood - who played 2 more games - but kicked 16 more points), might not seem much but an additional 7-8 goals over the course of the season would have got us a few more spots up the ladder. We've only lost fringe players, but brought in a clear best 22. If we can fix our retention within fwd 50 (back to 2018 levels), which will in turn stop some of those annoying rebound 50 goals, I think we're very close to challenging for the top 4 and also having a major impact on the season. 

4 hours ago, Kent said:

Here we go its 2022 now

always next year with this mob

I don’t disagree with you, but there’s no way on earth we are winning the flag next year.

I’m as negative about our prospects as you, don’t worry

Make finals

It's finals or bust.

If we don't make the finals then Simon Goodwin will be sacked.

Making finals is the bare minimum, and no injury list or pandemic is going to forgive yet another bottom 8 finish.

But really if we don't make and win at least one final, then 2021 makes us no closer to a flag than we were 4 years ago under Goodwin. 

Making finals isn’t what Goodwin will be judged upon. That would mean for 2020 Goodwin would not sacked if AVB kicked the goal against the Cats and sacked if he missed?

hopefully the club has more meaningful measurements that this flip of the coin stuff

7 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

my personal expectation is that we win one final, minimum

At the end of 2019 I would've been doing cart wheels at the thought of winning 1 final and bowing out in the semis.

However, seeing a bog ordinary side such as St Kilda win a final over a side that went to sleep for 2 quarters suggests that winning one final isn't that great an achievement.

He'll certainly survive if we make the finals, but I'd love to see us start beating the Richmond's, Geelongs, Brisbanes, Ports and West Coasts of the league - go 50/50 against those mobs and eventually make and lose a prelim in respectable fashion. l'd call that a successful season IMO.

I.m with you KDA, I am looking for a top 4 finish pushing late into the finals ala 2018, we are a better side and two years older, barring injuries of course.

His pass mark is the same as for all coaches of all teams at all levels.

He has to show that he can make a positive difference and enhance and sustain our team's performance. 2018 was a good example but unless he can show a similar result, then perhaps he will not be able to demonstrate that he can make a positive difference.

It's tough being an AFL coach but that's why he earns the big bucks.