Farewell Sam Weideman

[Redleg 40,817]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

Weid might have been better if he took Andrews away from the contest rather than to it

Then the coaches should instruct him to do that, if that is what they wanted. I think he basically did as instructed and assisted in 3 goals and could have kicked 2 more himself.

[dazzledavey36 54,235]

52 minutes ago, Ham said:

What position do you hold at the club? Didn't realise you were the expert.

It's all opinions mate, learn that and get over it. 

Pot kettle black here.

Maybe ring Mark Williams and Greg Stafford and offer your expertise. 

Save yourself the embarrassment tiger.

[Pennant St Dee 13,105]

5 hours ago, old dee said:

Having now watched the replay he should have had 2 goals. Add those to his tally and all of a sudden he been good. 

Pretty much, he’s playing a role and I think a decent bag will come if he learns to handle the pressure 

[Nairobi_Demon 335]

The bottom-line is that Weideman has kicked 3 goals from 4 outings, an average of 0.75 per game, and there’s a player on the team that kicked 5 goals from 3 outings or 1.66 per game, 120% more. That’s the difference between a 17 goal full season and 38 goal full season. 

We should absolutely keep Weideman on the list if he wants to stay, but mid way through the season we genuinely don’t know for sure whether BBB or Weideman are better for the side (I personally lean BBB based on those 5 goals but concede there’s uncertainty).  

Weideman has been given a good run. BBB needs another run while there’s still time, including time for Weideman to come back in if indeed BBB doesn’t deliver. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

7 minutes ago, Nairobi_Demon said:

The bottom-line is that Weideman has kicked 3 goals from 4 outings, an average of 0.75 per game, and there’s a player on the team that kicked 5 goals from 3 outings or 1.66 per game, 120% more. That’s the difference between a 17 goal full season and 38 goal full season. 

We should absolutely keep Weideman on the list if he wants to stay, but mid way through the season we genuinely don’t know for sure whether BBB or Weideman are better for the side (I personally lean BBB based on those 5 goals but concede there’s uncertainty).  

Weideman has been given a good run. BBB needs another run while there’s still time, including time for Weideman to come back in if indeed BBB doesn’t deliver. 

I believe Brown will come in this week, but if we're quoting stats let's also note Weid is ahead of Brown for:

Disposals, marks, contested marks, tackles, goal assists and pressure acts.

[Pates 9,659]

8 minutes ago, Nairobi_Demon said:

The bottom-line is that Weideman has kicked 3 goals from 4 outings, an average of 0.75 per game, and there’s a player on the team that kicked 5 goals from 3 outings or 1.66 per game, 120% more. That’s the difference between a 17 goal full season and 38 goal full season. 

We should absolutely keep Weideman on the list if he wants to stay, but mid way through the season we genuinely don’t know for sure whether BBB or Weideman are better for the side (I personally lean BBB based on those 5 goals but concede there’s uncertainty).  

Weideman has been given a good run. BBB needs another run while there’s still time, including time for Weideman to come back in if indeed BBB doesn’t deliver. 

I will say that when the ball hits the ground Weid is more involved, BBB just looks like a spectator. If, and this is a big if, we are more interested in allowing TMac and Fritta to be the main goal contributors while that third tall just provides a contest than Weid can play that role. But jeez in the forward line of the best team in the competition you would surely expect Sam to be averaging a goal a game at least.

I think we will see BBB back into the team in the next few matches, Sam has been given ample opportunity to get into form. To be honest, going on form, I would be looking at giving Mitch Brown a look in.

[Youngwilliam 381]

I feel bad, I keep thinking Weids is older than he is. He's only 23 and I feel bad for hurling abuse at him, through the TV. 

Everyone is comparing him to Tom Hawkins. 2011 Hawkins was was 23 and kicked 27. The next year Hawkins kicked 62. I'm as impatient as the next bloke, give him 2 more years.

[chookrat 4,247]

Weid was ok v Brisbane and I reckon internally the club would have been happy with his game. I cannot recall him being outmarked and he brought quite a few balls to ground, took a few good grabs and with improved kicking would have had 2-3 goals. He's come off an injury interrupted season last year and missed alot of the preseason and I reckon he needs a good run of a few games to clunk an extra mark or two and get his confidence back in front of goal.

[dworship 3,342]

9 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Totally agree.

But there also comes a point with his current form where you need to ask, is it doing the right thing by him and the rest of the team to keep playing him without an appropriate level of performance from him.

 

I agree with your agree but it is for the Coaches to determine what is an appropriate level of performance and that may be based on more factors than how many one grab marks he takes or how many goals he kicks. At the moment the other options have no real form due to Covid restrictions and that isn't really going to change much for a while even when restrictions are lifted.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

8 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

There’s a thread started recently titled “Our kids are doing great”, not only are our young players doing great but the majority of our players have made improvements in their games. To suggest Weid hasn’t had any decent development is not true. He was drafted in 2015 so he’s had Roos and Goodwin as senior coaches as well as assistants including Brendan McCartney, Alan Richardson and more recently Choco and Yze. But since when has kicking Beene now issue of his? He had a shocker last night, but he is normally a great set shot, his misses last night were very gettable.

 

Since he missed a set shot to win a game a couple years ago.
Has had the jitters since IMO.

 



 

[dworship 3,342]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Williams is the kicking coach isn't he

Nope, he is the development coach and happens to have a kit bag of tools to help all the aspects needed to be a successful AFL footballer.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,799]

2 hours ago, dworship said:

I agree with your agree but it is for the Coaches to determine what is an appropriate level of performance and that may be based on more factors than how many one grab marks he takes or how many goals he kicks. At the moment the other options have no real form due to Covid restrictions and that isn't really going to change much for a while even when restrictions are lifted.

Totally.

With Sammy at the moment, I also get the impression that it's somewhat a confidence thing and he could be one good game away from really turning it on and getting his mojo back to the level he was at last season.  ...or he could be five games away, I don't really know.

If it's the route the coaches/selectors decide to take at some point, I don't really think it did him any real harm to have him run around in the two's last year and build his confidence back there (hopefully the COVID pusses off).

I think it's also possible that in a few weeks time we could (hopefully) face a selection dilemma of squeezing Langdon and Viney into the side.  In this instance, I wouldn't have an issue with Sammy being dropped without BBB in the side.  Our forward line functioned pretty well for the first ~6 games of the year with just T Mac, Jacko and Fritta as the main tall targets and a structure like that might even be our best option as we approach finals.  In this instance I think we'd look to play Harmes, Trac, Viney forward a bit more and that could certainly work.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Chook 15,012]

2 hours ago, chookrat said:

Weid was ok v Brisbane and I reckon internally the club would have been happy with his game. I cannot recall him being outmarked and he brought quite a few balls to ground, took a few good grabs and with improved kicking would have had 2-3 goals. He's come off an injury interrupted season last year and missed alot of the preseason and I reckon he needs a good run of a few games to clunk an extra mark or two and get his confidence back in front of goal.

Harris Andrews took plenty of marks where Wied was in the contest or in the general vicinity.

[Grr-owl 1,208]

13 hours ago, Ham said:

Under what type of development? 

MFC have let Weideman down, monumentally. If we're going to point fingers, it needs to be right at the club, not at Weideman.  

Dunno, mate. The club seems to have developed the hell out of a number of other players in that time.....

[monoccular 17,413]

On 6/5/2021 at 1:40 AM, Dr.D said:

couldn't agree more. I think he'd make a great defender. Good athleticism, attacks the ball in the air, long arms. I'd love to see him played there and I've said it for years.

But one doesn’t experiment, mid season, with the meanest tightest back line in the competition. 
Maybe early next preseason, if all the same folk are involved (plus Tomlinson).

[58er 6,386]

19 hours ago, Nasher said:

I don’t see the point in trading Weid or playing him back. Go all in and back him to become the forward he should be able to become, and persist until the jury is well and truly in. 

I have not suggested in my post recently that Dam go back PERMANENTLY. I said give him some game time at Casey at CHB to enable Sam to get his game together ( mainly for his marking to go from two grabs to ONE grab and get confidence in his football.

Seriously it's a no brainer Sam May be better than Petty snd Tommo as a KP Defender and Harry could still be a better forward if this happened. Wn i win as they say but to dismiss Sam as not good enough is foolish and careless.

Tmac would not be the forward  he is without Roos/Goodwin giving him the opportunity to go forward. He was a great mark but his disposal horrid a lot of the time. Look at him now!!!

Wr have to be creative and Sam somehow must overcome his FEAR of not succeeding ie his low self esteem on game day out on the field.

It's mostly that fear that restricts his belief in himself and his role and acceptance that he is AFL quality.

Let him talk to any one about his confidence ( after giving him permission) if he believes it's gong to be good for himself.

Choco may be the man also but It's really SAM that holds the key with the Clubs help.

[Demons11 6,915]

On 6/4/2021 at 10:57 PM, dimmy said:

His oppponent was AA Full Back last year. He competed which provides the fodder for our smaller forwards.

100% correct mate.  Andrew’s is a gun and did shut him down but it allowed the 2nd bear defender to go to T Mac 

[Kent 2,906]

17 hours ago, Damo said:

I think its ok to say that Sam may be improving but it is a slow ride. It is also ok to say that Ben Brown is more mature and this year and probably next would be a better option.

I find it interesting that people give a firm opinion and then tell us that football clubs dont rate supporters opinions.

My thoughts that clubs dont rate supporters opinions, why should they? including those supporters who tell us exactly that

[dworship 3,342]

18 hours ago, Ham said:

What position do you hold at the club? Didn't realise you were the expert.

It's all opinions mate, learn that and get over it. 

Given you've chosen Ham as your moniker it appears you are "A performer who overacts or exaggerates". If you are going to defend yourself by playing the old "it's all just opinions" card it's probably a good idea to be a bit more thick skinned. You need to realise that if you put forward an opinion that I or others don't agree with, then you are open to cross examination, probing and in some cases ridicule. Having said all that, some of your opinion (and lets face it there is a lot) has bits I might agree with. Problem is you lose credibility when you throw in all the stuff you have no evidence for and your opinion appears to be influenced by feelings in your nether regions. Feel free to provide an opinion on my post below but don't waste my time with juvenile BS.

I'm in the camp that thinks Weid should be given more time in the Senior side. That's an opinion. My observation of his last 4 games lead me to think he is improving and importantly the non negotiables are being delivered (think "selflessness" "team defence", "positioning", "constant presentation"). That's an observation leading to an opinion.

I don't believe kicking straight for goal or taking every mark as a one touch grab are "non negotiables". I would imagine there are certain KPI's that might need to be met regarding that however. That's a guess leading to an opinion.

A number of posters believe Sam has been given too much time to improve based on his age or time on our list. You have blamed the MFC and the Coaches for failing to develop him properly.

Weid has played 48 senior games, FACT. Last season he played 13 consecutive games (the greatest amount of consecutive games he has ever played by a considerable margin), from R6 to R18. Averaged 2 goals a game R6 to R14. FACT . All his other stats were reasonable for a key forward during this period. Opinion. He fell away badly in the final 4 games particularly in the Cairns games and I'm not going to try and guess why. That would be speculation.

I think he has had a tougher path than most and has had struggles with injuries that have impacted his development, consistency and confidence. I would like to see him get at least another 4 or more consecutive games before doubting him. Opinion.

Even then my opinion would be that the Coaches know what they are doing, more often than not, on the evidence to date.

Edited June 6, 2021 by dworship

[old55 23,367]

Weid had another "almost" game, he's still not quite sticking his marks and his kicking confidence is down.  Two aerial contest led to goals and groundball gets and handballs directly produced two goals.  He also tackled with intent.  He's 23 and he has all the attributes, he just needs to stitch it together. 

He'll play next week against Collingwood and he needs to continue to compete hard to maintain his place - another "almost game" and VFL resumption over the bye giving BB a chance to assert himself may see Weid out against Essendon.  He's a work in progress and the forward line is functioning very productively with him in there.

[Sargent Shultz 267]

Brown is ready to go now, and needs to fit into our system before the finals. He been an All Austrlian nominee 3 times, kicked 292 goals, leading goal kicker 4 times, 28 years old, uninjured  and in his prime. Sam has kicked 49 goals in 5 1/2 seasons. its a no brainer for me. Sam may be great next year or the year after, who know? but he is not great now.

[picket fence 17,035]

5 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Brown is ready to go now, and needs to fit into our system before the finals. He been an All Austrlian nominee 3 times, kicked 292 goals, leading goal kicker 4 times, 28 years old, uninjured  and in his prime. Sam has kicked 49 goals in 5 1/2 seasons. its a no brainer for me. Sam may be great next year or the year after, who know? but he is not great now.

Your arguement is compelling enough for me

[dworship 3,342]

3 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Brown is ready to go now, and needs to fit into our system before the finals. He been an All Austrlian nominee 3 times, kicked 292 goals, leading goal kicker 4 times, 28 years old, uninjured  and in his prime. Sam has kicked 49 goals in 5 1/2 seasons. its a no brainer for me. Sam may be great next year or the year after, who know? but he is not great now.

If he was he would be in the side now. Apparently the people who pick the team disagree with you. The Coaches at MFC are such fools aren't they.

[durango 2,004]

He played on the Friday night on the best defencive player (Andrews) outside of May did ok but again did not stick the marks he got his hands to.

His last mark in the 4th quarter was excellent but was under pressure to kick a goal and shanked the kick, sometimes you drop players because they played poorly but he did contest most balls and again our talls competed with each other sometimes which has to be fixed.

The talls have to get separation and compete with their opponents not teammates.

 

[Pennant St Dee 13,105]

10 hours ago, Chook said:

Harris Andrews took plenty of marks where Wied was in the contest or in the general vicinity.

Andrews took 2 contested marks in the game.