54 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I can understand the concern at taking someone like Pickett at pick 10 but perhaps we are just a bit ahead of the curve.

Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts are two of the most influential small X factor forwards of recent times and neither were taken in the National Draft. Small forwards, in a lot of cases, have been taken late because of the reasons mentioned here.  But good ones are match winners.  If the Betts and Cameron drafts were done retrospectively they'd both be in the top 10, perhaps top 5.

Remind me again where Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron were drafted. And, more importantly in the context of this conversation, how many premierships each has won.

Small forwards are great if you can get one cheap, but they don't win you premierships (with the obvious exception of Cyril Rioli who is considerably more than just a small forward). 

 

49 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I can understand the concern at taking someone like Pickett at pick 10 but perhaps we are just a bit ahead of the curve.

Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts are two of the most influential small X factor forwards of recent times and neither were taken in the National Draft. Small forwards, in a lot of cases, have been taken late because of the reasons mentioned here.  But good ones are match winners.  If the Betts and Cameron drafts were done retrospectively they'd both be in the top 10, perhaps top 5.

If we take Pickett it's because we believe he can have the same impact as other elite small forwards.  If we are right we've got a bargain, if not we'll be one of many clubs that have a miss with a pick in that vacinity.

Personally I hope we take him unless someone we really rate slides.  I believe we have a good list, as Mahoney said our list is pretty much set.  We don't want for a lot as long as our (the FD) evaluation of players is correct (Weid and Petty succeeding for example).  The other thing is that many here overrate pick 10.  It can throw up some guns but it can also throw up some duds.  All pick 10's are guns when drafted but there are a lot of duds amoungst them.  

We have been crying out for X factor for years. Many here have lamented we don't have it and now as we look like getting it many have gone all gun shy.

Agreed. Seems like many really want him but would rather risk losing him than taking him with pick 10! Its just not a philosophy I really get. He's almost the prototype  of the exact  type of player our team is crying out for... and  he'll be available. Yes, granted his unproven but ALL the recruits are in the same bracket.  Hope the MFC has the balls to do this. 

Pickett will be a very very good player. It seems a stretch getting him at 10, but this guy will have everything to succeed at the levels of AFL. If we draft him, I will be a very happy supporter. Quote me on this when he tears it up on the MCG. 

19 minutes ago, poita said:

Remind me again where Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron were drafted. And, more importantly in the context of this conversation, how many premierships each has won.

Small forwards are great if you can get one cheap, but they don't win you premierships (with the obvious exception of Cyril Rioli who is considerably more than just a small forward).

No single type of player 'wins you a premiership', and you can't single out players and their premiership totals and then try to talk 'context'.

How many flags did Cyril win? How many has Daniel Rioli won? What about even going back to Stevie J? Silly to cherry pick players out when talking about a specific role in a team.

You also realize Cameron was traded for pick 12 yeah?

A team wins a premiership. Within the team is the right mix of roles. The small forward role is currently a massive weakness of ours, so "in the context" of the Melbourne Demons trying to win a flag from 2020 and beyond then you know what? A small forward just might win us a premiership 'in that context'.

Edited November 26, 20195 yr by Lord Nev

14 minutes ago, poita said:

Remind me again where Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron were drafted. And, more importantly in the context of this conversation, how many premierships each has won.

Small forwards are great if you can get one cheap, but they don't win you premierships (with the obvious exception of Cyril Rioli who is considerably more than just a small forward). 

 

I'm not sure why I'm responding to this because the first bit of information is but a click away and the second point just rot.

Cameron was in the rookie draft and Betts was in the PSD.  Neither have been in premiership teams.  Either was Robbie Flower but perhaps you're not a fan of his either.  Teams win premierships not players.  Have a think about that and a lot might fall into place for you.

11 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

He kind of reminds me of a young Jeff "the Wizard" Farmer with his raw talent he does this Kysaiah "Kozzy" Pickett. Football is in the blood with Uncle Byron Pickett too!

 

This highlights package of 6 goals was impressive. Even if it was only a SANFL reserves game.

 

 

i like how he gets 'front and centre'. We currently have no player on our list that seems to understand the importance of this. Spargo likes to think of himslef as a leading target, despite being 4 foot 3"

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I can understand the concern at taking someone like Pickett at pick 10 but perhaps we are just a bit ahead of the curve.

Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts are two of the most influential small X factor forwards of recent times and neither were taken in the National Draft. Small forwards, in a lot of cases, have been taken late because of the reasons mentioned here.  But good ones are match winners.  If the Betts and Cameron drafts were done retrospectively they'd both be in the top 10, perhaps top 5.

If we take Pickett it's because we believe he can have the same impact as other elite small forwards.  If we are right we've got a bargain, if not we'll be one of many clubs that have a miss with a pick in that vacinity.

Personally I hope we take him unless someone we really rate slides.  I believe we have a good list, as Mahoney said our list is pretty much set.  We don't want for a lot as long as our (the FD) evaluation of players is correct (Weid and Petty succeeding for example).  The other thing is that many here overrate pick 10.  It can throw up some guns but it can also throw up some duds.  All pick 10's are guns when drafted but there are a lot of duds amoungst them.  

We have been crying out for X factor for years. Many here have lamented we don't have it and now as we look like getting it many have gone all gun shy.

This is exactly right.

The fact that the gun small forwards have been drafted late is a fault of drafting.  It's that recruiters have been unable to rate them correctly. It's not that they are not worth drafting early.

If we draft Pickett early it's because we think he'll be a gun and if he is it will be worth it.

Clubs that continue with the current model of only drafting small forwards late because they can't rate them properly will eventually get left behind.

BTW, exactly the same argument applies to drafting Jackson at 3.

If we do get him, imagine the learning curve with Neville Jetta wearing him like a sock at training for the next 3-5 years

56 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

He's almost the prototype  of the exact  type of player our team is crying out for...

No one is questioning whether he's the type we need, the question is whether he's actually any good. For every Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron, there's a whole stack of small forwards that don't make the grade.

12 minutes ago, Rocknroll said:

If we do get him, imagine the learning curve with Neville Jetta wearing him like a sock at training for the next 3-5 years

Jetta won’t be on our list in 3-5 years, unless you mean he could become an assistant coach or have some other role at the MFC.

We clearly want him... He clearly won't be there at pick 28. Sometimes you just need to over pay to get what you want. 

I'm glad we aren't going for the same old vanilla footballers we have had for the past decade. 

Let's take a risk and let's hope it pays off... Jackson as well he could be amazing, so much raw potential there and will be hitting his prime as Maxy is hanging up the boots with his 3 flags, norm Smith & a Brownlow 

I'm so excited about picking this kid up. He's going to terrify opposition defenders. I reckon the comparisons to Cyril are bang on.

I have watched the highlights but the recruiters have watch him live in matches good or bad, when you recruit a small forward the stats kicks and handballs mean he is in the play, the other 1%ers don't get reported. This you have to be there to see them.

I hope if we select him he turns out like his uncle byron and becomes a star of the competition?

We have 3 other players who will push each other for the small forward spot.

1 hour ago, GCDee said:

We clearly want him... He clearly won't be there at pick 28. Sometimes you just need to over pay to get what you want. 

I'm glad we aren't going for the same old vanilla footballers we have had for the past decade. 

Let's take a risk and let's hope it pays off... Jackson as well he could be amazing, so much raw potential there and will be hitting his prime as Maxy is hanging up the boots with his 3 flags, norm Smith & a Brownlow 

I think this is a great post, i have my reservations about Jackson at 3, but i do like that we are going against the grain a bit. You, want it, you go get it, its what we have done for Lever and May, why would drafting philosophy be different?

You should never regret anything that makes you smile and i guarantee Pickett will make us all smile.

1 hour ago, GCDee said:

We clearly want him... He clearly won't be there at pick 28. Sometimes you just need to over pay to get what you want. 

I'm glad we aren't going for the same old vanilla footballers we have had for the past decade. 

Let's take a risk and let's hope it pays off... Jackson as well he could be amazing, so much raw potential there and will be hitting his prime as Maxy is hanging up the boots with his 3 flags, norm Smith & a Brownlow 

If we are looking to land him, Kozzy appears to have more talent on his rude finger than most have in their whole body.  The talent side shouldn't be an issue.  It will be the effort, 2nd efforts and stamina to keep going and what will allow that is fitness.  That will come down to a want and desire to take his game to a very high level.  If he brings that look out.  That and hopefully a few more centimetres / kilos will hold him in very good stead.

And the other issue for me... what's to say we aren't targeting Weightman?

3 hours ago, poita said:

Remind me again where Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron were drafted. And, more importantly in the context of this conversation, how many premierships each has won.

Small forwards are great if you can get one cheap, but they don't win you premierships (with the obvious exception of Cyril Rioli who is considerably more than just a small forward). 

 

The last 2 premiership sides in Richmond & West Coast have had 3 excellent aboriginal small forwards in Daniel Rioli, Willi Rioli & Liam Ryan. All very influential in the win not just for the goals they kicked but how they bring their teammates into play.

 

9 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

This is exactly right.

The fact that the gun small forwards have been drafted late is a fault of drafting.  It's that recruiters have been unable to rate them correctly. It's not that they are not worth drafting early.

If we draft Pickett early it's because we think he'll be a gun and if he is it will be worth it.

Clubs that continue with the current model of only drafting small forwards late because they can't rate them properly will eventually get left behind.

BTW, exactly the same argument applies to drafting Jackson at 3.

Both Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts would surely have been taken with top 10 picks in their respective drafts had those drafts occurred again.

Contrary to the theme on this thread, is there any chance Pickett may not actually last until pick 10?  

(I assume not by the way.)

 

18 hours ago, DubDee said:

If we want to take speculative picks such as Pickett ...

Every pick is a speculative pick. None of us has a crystal ball.

Anyone think he could play AFL in Round 1 if we do draft him?

We have a cat at home called Picket

(Turns out the kitty is a polar opposite to Byron as it is stark white and scared of its own shadow) Our whole family [censored] loved Byron when he played for MFC

Now i like the nostalgia of having another Picket on the list, but i just hope to hell that he is worth the pick we pay for him if we do pull the trigger. So far all i have read is that he was expected to go in the twenties at the earliest.

As always, only time will tell, and we do have some form in taking a player much higher than expected (Oliver) and he turned out to be an inspired choice.

*Fingers are well and truly crossed on this draft as we seem to be about to pick players who have come from the clouds with first rounders, one of which could potentially cost us a LOT more than just the apparent pick 10 if we fail again next year.

 

 

*All based on the possibility/likelyhood? of us taking Kossie at 10.... 

Kozzzy is a big risk if we use pick 10.  But understand if we think he’s gone by our next pick, how much we might regret it.
 I think he’s a talent yet I do see others at pick 10 (or 11,12 depending on bids) are better options such as Stephens, Robertson or Kemp.  

If we get him I think the coaching staff should be making his instructions for his first year pretty simple: chase hard, get to the front of packs, and back yourself. 

I don't know that pick 10 is necessarily where he's rated as to the quality of the draft but remember we picked up a certain ginger draft bolter that surprised a few in the media, and so far he's looked pretty damn good!

If nothing else it'll be good to have some x-factor making defenders sweat.

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Every pick is a speculative pick. None of us has a crystal ball.

Come on. There are picks based on consistent high quality football over many games and there are others.  

23 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I can understand the concern at taking someone like Pickett at pick 10 but perhaps we are just a bit ahead of the curve.

Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts are two of the most influential small X factor forwards of recent times and neither were taken in the National Draft. Small forwards, in a lot of cases, have been taken late because of the reasons mentioned here.  But good ones are match winners.  If the Betts and Cameron drafts were done retrospectively they'd both be in the top 10, perhaps top 5.

If we take Pickett it's because we believe he can have the same impact as other elite small forwards.  If we are right we've got a bargain, if not we'll be one of many clubs that have a miss with a pick in that vacinity.

Personally I hope we take him unless someone we really rate slides.  I believe we have a good list, as Mahoney said our list is pretty much set.  We don't want for a lot as long as our (the FD) evaluation of players is correct (Weid and Petty succeeding for example).  The other thing is that many here overrate pick 10.  It can throw up some guns but it can also throw up some duds.  All pick 10's are guns when drafted but there are a lot of duds amoungst them.  

We have been crying out for X factor for years. Many here have lamented we don't have it and now as we look like getting it many have gone all gun shy.

How many other potential small forwards were taken with speculative picks and amounted to nothing?

I'm not saying the club shouldn't take Pickett (as I have no idea), if they think he's good enough you take him. But 1st round/top 10 picks should always be Best Player Available and not a reach based on needs. Taking Jackson and Pickett is fine if they are considered the best players there at those picks, but if we're doing it to try and fill holes in the list it will bite us on the [censored].

Just to put things in perspective on people saying that he is a bit of a reach. Hawthorn, Port, and Western Bulldogs are clubs all ready to pounce on Pickett in those early selections in the teens hence why we are set to use pick 10 on him. Hawthorn at 11 and Bulldogs at 13 are the ones who have put in a lot of work into him and ones that also invited him to draft night tonight.

I dont think we'll split 10 purely on the basis that he will be gone by mid teens.

So yes, we aren't the only ones willing to use an early pick on Kozzy.