Jump to content

bing181

The preseason we didn't have

Recommended Posts

"In his presentation, Misson showed that the Demons had 39 players complete a total of 33 training sessions each in the pre-season prior to the successful 2018 season. This year, in Misson’s telling, there were just 25 players completing a total of 22 sessions each – a massive drop partly explained by high number of players who had post-season surgery."

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/demons-early-warning-on-poor-start-to-2019-20190430-p51isa.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread & while mods may consider merging this thread, I think it's worthy of its own discussion. The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

The comparison with the Crows fall from grace in 2018 is interesting. Would love to see their pre season player availability stats for a deeper analysis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread & while mods may consider merging this thread, I think it's worthy of its own discussion. The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

The comparison with the Crows fall from grace in 2018 is interesting. Would love to see their pre season player availability stats for a deeper analysis

I was also curious to see the comparison with Adelaide.

This is from December 2017 on injury lists. It’s not much to go on but there’s a little bit of detail about the Crows’ players with post season surgery after the GF appearance. Not many really. If you go through all the lists our number of 17 post 2018 seems astronomical.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-09/medical-room-whos-on-the-injury-list-at-your-club

Edited by Dee Zephyr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't the Crows also get some mentalists to kidnap their players?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adelaide still won 12 games though, we'd kill for that this year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread

Mods should delete if a duplicate. I put it up because I couldn't see any reference to it anywhere, but if it's already been discussed ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

I wasn't overly vocal about it but I raised concerns. There were a number of other posters who shared the same view. We were always going to be in trouble early. I thought we would have enough depth to get us through the first few rounds, unfortunately we got a fair few injuries which ruined this. 

There were a large number of us who watched the practice games and knew we were cooked.

It isn't just the number of sessions though. There are a number of things that have created this which include:

1. Delayed start to preseason

2. Large turnover post season (10 is a lot for a team who finished 4th)

3. Post season surgery to 12 or more players

4. Injuries to a large number of players leading to round 1

I still think we will turn it around next year. While frustrating, this could be the year we need to have.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BAMF said:

I wasn't overly vocal about it but I raised concerns. There were a number of other posters who shared the same view. We were always going to be in trouble early. I thought we would have enough depth to get us through the first few rounds, unfortunately we got a fair few injuries which ruined this. 

There were a large number of us who watched the practice games and knew we were cooked.

It isn't just the number of sessions though. There are a number of things that have created this which include:

1. Delayed start to preseason

2. Large turnover post season (10 is a lot for a team who finished 4th)

3. Post season surgery to 12 or more players

4. Injuries to a large number of players leading to round 1

I still think we will turn it around next year. While frustrating, this could be the year we need to have.

The good news is that we should avoid a delayed start to preseason this year as players will be on holiday in the first week of September - Dees! 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Mods this discussion is already going in the Sack Everyone Mega thread.

Edited by Matsuo Basho
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is that Jake Niall has referred to the numbers allegedly in Misson's report. Assuming Niall's story is accurate, how did he get the figures? Has there been a leak? If so, for what reason?

My gut feel is that the data has been deliberately leaked to take some pressure off someone. Is that someone the coach? Misson? And, if that is correct, why is there a need now to take pressure off someone? Is there some internal pressure on Goodwin?

I find the questions the story raises far more interesting than the information itself, which probably doesn't tell us significantly much more than we already knew, or, at least, assumed. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is that Jake Niall has referred to the numbers allegedly in Misson's report. Assuming Niall's story is accurate, how did he get the figures? Has there been a leak? If so, for what reason?

My gut feel is that the data has been deliberately leaked to take some pressure off someone. Is that someone the coach? Misson? And, if that is correct, why is there a need now to take pressure off someone? Is there some internal pressure on Goodwin?

I find the questions the story raises far more interesting than the information itself, which probably doesn't tell us significantly much more than we already knew, or, at least, assumed. 

Well, given the madness that overtakes this place why not leak some facts?

It's good to have the scale of the cutback in preparation quantified like this. I really don't know why you'd complain about it...you think it's a conspiracy to protect the coach and yet every week there is someone on this site complaining about the level of (non)disclosure from the official club site. 

You can't have this stuff dropped by an official because it looks like you're making excuses for the players. I'll go with the media strategy thanks. You go with your gut feel.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Well, given the madness that overtakes this place why not leak some facts?

It's good to have the scale of the cutback in preparation quantified like this. I really don't know why you'd complain about it...you think it's a conspiracy to protect the coach and yet every week there is someone on this site complaining about the level of (non)disclosure from the official club site. 

You can't have this stuff dropped by an official because it looks like you're making excuses for the players. I'll go with the media strategy thanks. You go with your gut feel.

Sorry, Pitmaster, but I don't understand the last paragraph. Are you saying that you believe this information was a deliberate media strategy rather than a leak? If so, I don't have a problem with that view. Either way (leak or deliberate) it still raises the same question. Why now and for what purpose? I don't believe for one moment it's because the club is just being transparent. If that were the case, this information would have been released weeks ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To know why it was leaked you would need to know who leaked it. It could be a board member or any one of the football department. I am saying I don't care how it came out, but I can see that the club would not want it out as an official statement because that would be excusing failure.

I disagree it would have been released weeks ago for transparency...we weren't 1 and 5 then. I am saying it's important for the supporters to know the scale of the issue. Now we have some.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gerard Whateley this morning led his show on SEN stating that Melbournes poor start to the year was simply due to our #interruptedpreseason that according to some on here did not exist. 

He said its not an excuse,  it's the reason. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)


Probably didn't release the info cause you don't let the opposition know how weak you really are.
Now its damage control.

 

Edited by Fork 'em
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we can't complain about being on the bottom then can we. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bottom line is it is what it is. There simply had to be consequences of the Post Season Operation schedule, consequences, no doubt, of Melbourne's late season success and attack at the Premiership. Trying to blame people, looking for leakages, shedding of responsibilities is all like spitting in the wind. It solves nothing, you can't blame Misson for the injuries...

Injuries are not the excuse, they were a fact of life. Not much you can do about that. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Gerard Whateley this morning led his show on SEN stating that Melbournes poor start to the year was simply due to our #interruptedpreseason that according to some on here did not exist. 

He said its not an excuse,  it's the reason. 

This is what’s most pertinent. In fact, Goodwin has said all along that it is not an excuse.

  • Like 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:


Probably didn't release the info cause you don't let the opposition know how weak you really are.
Now its damage control.

 

We are mentally weak more than physically weak.

Hawks roll into the season without their Brownlow medalist, Scully underdone, no Birchall, Burgoyne and Frawley under injury clouds. Yet there they are again knocking on the door of the eight getting the job done.

Richmond missing big stars, still got their foot on the gas with no let up.

Not at Melbourne. Send a few blokes out for minor surgeries in October and we soil the bed. Pathetic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I was a bit guilty of thinking we had a plethora of player riches to choose from. I know many others thought the same. Once the new year came and players were still hobbling around, the penny dropped for me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this points to a number of impacts - not only were we essentially 33% down on completed sessions, 22 to 33, we were also down 36% in the number of played who did them (25 to 39).

This speaks to a decrease in conditioning prior to the first game, but also speaks to individual players not being confident or up with their skills.  Even more importantly, the lack of team cohesion becomes apparent when the players have had little chance to work together on the game plan, on changes to the gameplan, and to convert ‘what we have to do’ into instinctive play through repetition. 

The lack of cohesion is critically apparent.  Poor decision making, looks like there is low trust for players to complete what is expected of them (lead to space, win an contest) and this is dramatically slowing the play, allowing the opposition to become completely set behind the ball.

So no excuses.  However how can you realistically compete when your team is >5% down across the board (Rusty Nails stats analysis),  only 2/3 of players completed 2/3 of the volume and training?  Seems like either a disaster, or long term planning in action.  My suspicion is they thought they could get away with it, but are being caught out.  The pressure will go on to be more competitive, and as we start to bring important players back and conditioning and cohesiveness improves, the back part of the year should be vastly improved.  It is still a terrible waste, however!

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The upside of this - and this is how clubs like Hawthorn view it - is an opportunity to see how some of the kids slash lesser lights shape up.

I reckon on the evidence so far Hore and Lockhart look like they could be the goods. Preuss also brings something although sadly he has joined the injury list.

Clearly we are underdone - and while some might think it misguided I suspect the leaking of this was well-intentioned - but that does not really explain our vanishing skills as witnessed last week.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

I think this points to a number of impacts - not only were we essentially 33% down on completed sessions, 22 to 33, we were also down 36% in the number of played who did them (25 to 39).

This speaks to a decrease in conditioning prior to the first game, but also speaks to individual players not being confident or up with their skills.  Even more importantly, the lack of team cohesion becomes apparent when the players have had little chance to work together on the game plan, on changes to the gameplan, and to convert ‘what we have to do’ into instinctive play through repetition. 

The lack of cohesion is critically apparent.  Poor decision making, looks like there is low trust for players to complete what is expected of them (lead to space, win an contest) and this is dramatically slowing the play, allowing the opposition to become completely set behind the ball.

So no excuses.  However how can you realistically compete when your team is >5% down across the board (Rusty Nails stats analysis),  only 2/3 of players completed 2/3 of the volume and training?  Seems like either a disaster, or long term planning in action.  My suspicion is they thought they could get away with it, but are being caught out.  The pressure will go on to be more competitive, and as we start to bring important players back and conditioning and cohesiveness improves, the back part of the year should be vastly improved.  It is still a terrible waste, however!

 

Great post Buck.

Totally agree on all points. I think they have  absolutely overestimated our depth (like many of us here, me included), thinking some of our fringe players could burden the load until the guns were all back and firing. Scrape a few wins early in the season and then re-load and expect more of the same domination of late last year. 

It`s been a disaster, but I guess these surgeries had to happen at some stage and now we are copping the ramifications.

We are likely to turn it around mid season, problem is our season is already cooked.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

The upside of this - and this is how clubs like Hawthorn view it - is an opportunity to see how some of the kids slash lesser lights shape up.

I reckon on the evidence so far Hore and Lockhart look like they could be the goods. Preuss also brings something although sadly he has joined the injury list.

Clearly we are underdone - and while some might think it misguided I suspect the leaking of this was well-intentioned - but that does not really explain our vanishing skills as witnessed last week.

They`ve lost all their confidence (in themselves and in each other) as a result of the first month of footy I reckon PIt and secondly once their lack of fitness kicks in, the basic skills like hitting simple targets goes out the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    BACK IN STYLE by Whispering Jack

    From the moment when the Elton John character in the movie “Rocketman” burst into its opening scene dressed as a flamboyant demon on his way to an addiction rehabilitation session, the game was on. Here was yet another film about a person gifted with a meteoric rise to stardom finding coke, booze and a hedonistic lifestyle that led directly to a destructive crash into the abyss. Ultimately, these stories end in total disaster (“A Star is Born”, “Bohemian Rhapsody”, “Judy”) but this one resulted

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2019

    PART ONE - OVERTURE  I have a disclaimer at the outset. I’m not a fan of the races - be they horses or motors of any kind. Once the final siren sounds on the football season, I find the month or so that follows and corresponds roughly with the Spring Racing Carnival to be the most boring time of the year for sports fans. You turn on the radio and you’re confronted by the monotonous drone of a self-proclaimed racing expert or by the nasally twang of an ex-jockey banging on about the equine p

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 8

    CHANGES 2019 by The Oracle

    PART 1 - IT’S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THIS TIME This year’s free agency, trade and draft period will see the usual drama and upheaval as the AFL’s 18 clubs seek to better their lists in order to challenge for finals and possibly premiership honours. Long before the final siren sounded on the season just over a week ago, the maneuvering was under way with player agents and clubs discussing possible player movements and in some cases, deals had already been done.  Yesterday, the r

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 1

    HOW FAR SOUTH? by George on the Outer

    It was appropriate that Melbourne was playing its last game of season 2019 in Hobart.  After all, how much further south could the team go? And much as it has done in many of the previous 22 games, the side managed to extract a loss from a winning position by simply giving the ball back to the opposition time and time again. In fact, they gave it back to the opposition to the tune of 53 points from turnovers while, by way of contrast North Melbourne contributed  only 17 points to their oppo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    COOKED by The Oracle

    I can vividly remember when the Demons ventured onto Blundstone Arena for the first time in early 2016 only to lose to the Kangaroos by 20.11.131 to 21.10.136.    Melbourne was then a team on the up and up: young, enthusiastic and bold. It gave up a huge quarter time deficit after kicking against a strong wind but made that up by half time and fell dramatically short after an exciting high scoring affair.  The team lost no fans that day - they were willing to take the game on and attac

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    HELP by KC rom Casey

    The Casey Demons finished off their home and away season against Frankston at Skybus Stadium on Sunday with a narrow, unconvincing 6-point victory that left the door slightly open for a top eight berth when the VFL finals begin in a fortnight’s time. While sunny skies prevailed over Frankston in the morning, the skies became overcast by noon and heavy waves pounded the bay nearby as the rains came in to greet the players as the game started. And conditions stayed dark and dreary for the rem

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THANKS BUT NO THANKS by George on the Outer

    Thanks, but no thanks! In a round where the club was supposed to thank their fans for the support during the year, the Melbourne Football Club chose to do otherwise with a 53 point loss to a team that sat 15th on the ladder.  Don’t give us cheap jumpers that can’t be sold in the Demon shop.  Don’t give us vouchers to shop there, give us something on the field, which is why we come to the football in the first place. It was a disgraceful performance, which started with a disgracefu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SLEEP OUT AT THE MCG by The Oracle

    Around about 12 months ago Melbourne and Sydney fought out an epic battle between two top eight teams fighting for the best possible ladder position in the lead up to the finals. The Swans triumphed by 9 points at the MCG after the Demons came back from five goals down at three quarter time. But for its poor kicking for goal, Melbourne might well have won the game and finished in the top four. Who knows what might then have happened for the club in September? As a consequence, the person re

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A LITTLE RAY OF SUNSHINE by KC from Casey

    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...