Jump to content
  • Podcast: No Merger Podcast &      

bing181

The preseason we didn't have

Recommended Posts

"In his presentation, Misson showed that the Demons had 39 players complete a total of 33 training sessions each in the pre-season prior to the successful 2018 season. This year, in Misson’s telling, there were just 25 players completing a total of 22 sessions each – a massive drop partly explained by high number of players who had post-season surgery."

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/demons-early-warning-on-poor-start-to-2019-20190430-p51isa.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread & while mods may consider merging this thread, I think it's worthy of its own discussion. The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

The comparison with the Crows fall from grace in 2018 is interesting. Would love to see their pre season player availability stats for a deeper analysis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread & while mods may consider merging this thread, I think it's worthy of its own discussion. The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

The comparison with the Crows fall from grace in 2018 is interesting. Would love to see their pre season player availability stats for a deeper analysis

I was also curious to see the comparison with Adelaide.

This is from December 2017 on injury lists. It’s not much to go on but there’s a little bit of detail about the Crows’ players with post season surgery after the GF appearance. Not many really. If you go through all the lists our number of 17 post 2018 seems astronomical.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-09/medical-room-whos-on-the-injury-list-at-your-club

Edited by Dee Zephyr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't the Crows also get some mentalists to kidnap their players?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread

Mods should delete if a duplicate. I put it up because I couldn't see any reference to it anywhere, but if it's already been discussed ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

I wasn't overly vocal about it but I raised concerns. There were a number of other posters who shared the same view. We were always going to be in trouble early. I thought we would have enough depth to get us through the first few rounds, unfortunately we got a fair few injuries which ruined this. 

There were a large number of us who watched the practice games and knew we were cooked.

It isn't just the number of sessions though. There are a number of things that have created this which include:

1. Delayed start to preseason

2. Large turnover post season (10 is a lot for a team who finished 4th)

3. Post season surgery to 12 or more players

4. Injuries to a large number of players leading to round 1

I still think we will turn it around next year. While frustrating, this could be the year we need to have.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BAMF said:

I wasn't overly vocal about it but I raised concerns. There were a number of other posters who shared the same view. We were always going to be in trouble early. I thought we would have enough depth to get us through the first few rounds, unfortunately we got a fair few injuries which ruined this. 

There were a large number of us who watched the practice games and knew we were cooked.

It isn't just the number of sessions though. There are a number of things that have created this which include:

1. Delayed start to preseason

2. Large turnover post season (10 is a lot for a team who finished 4th)

3. Post season surgery to 12 or more players

4. Injuries to a large number of players leading to round 1

I still think we will turn it around next year. While frustrating, this could be the year we need to have.

The good news is that we should avoid a delayed start to preseason this year as players will be on holiday in the first week of September - Dees! 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is that Jake Niall has referred to the numbers allegedly in Misson's report. Assuming Niall's story is accurate, how did he get the figures? Has there been a leak? If so, for what reason?

My gut feel is that the data has been deliberately leaked to take some pressure off someone. Is that someone the coach? Misson? And, if that is correct, why is there a need now to take pressure off someone? Is there some internal pressure on Goodwin?

I find the questions the story raises far more interesting than the information itself, which probably doesn't tell us significantly much more than we already knew, or, at least, assumed. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is that Jake Niall has referred to the numbers allegedly in Misson's report. Assuming Niall's story is accurate, how did he get the figures? Has there been a leak? If so, for what reason?

My gut feel is that the data has been deliberately leaked to take some pressure off someone. Is that someone the coach? Misson? And, if that is correct, why is there a need now to take pressure off someone? Is there some internal pressure on Goodwin?

I find the questions the story raises far more interesting than the information itself, which probably doesn't tell us significantly much more than we already knew, or, at least, assumed. 

Well, given the madness that overtakes this place why not leak some facts?

It's good to have the scale of the cutback in preparation quantified like this. I really don't know why you'd complain about it...you think it's a conspiracy to protect the coach and yet every week there is someone on this site complaining about the level of (non)disclosure from the official club site. 

You can't have this stuff dropped by an official because it looks like you're making excuses for the players. I'll go with the media strategy thanks. You go with your gut feel.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Well, given the madness that overtakes this place why not leak some facts?

It's good to have the scale of the cutback in preparation quantified like this. I really don't know why you'd complain about it...you think it's a conspiracy to protect the coach and yet every week there is someone on this site complaining about the level of (non)disclosure from the official club site. 

You can't have this stuff dropped by an official because it looks like you're making excuses for the players. I'll go with the media strategy thanks. You go with your gut feel.

Sorry, Pitmaster, but I don't understand the last paragraph. Are you saying that you believe this information was a deliberate media strategy rather than a leak? If so, I don't have a problem with that view. Either way (leak or deliberate) it still raises the same question. Why now and for what purpose? I don't believe for one moment it's because the club is just being transparent. If that were the case, this information would have been released weeks ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To know why it was leaked you would need to know who leaked it. It could be a board member or any one of the football department. I am saying I don't care how it came out, but I can see that the club would not want it out as an official statement because that would be excusing failure.

I disagree it would have been released weeks ago for transparency...we weren't 1 and 5 then. I am saying it's important for the supporters to know the scale of the issue. Now we have some.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gerard Whateley this morning led his show on SEN stating that Melbournes poor start to the year was simply due to our #interruptedpreseason that according to some on here did not exist. 

He said its not an excuse,  it's the reason. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Probably didn't release the info cause you don't let the opposition know how weak you really are.
Now its damage control.

 

Edited by Fork 'em
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we can't complain about being on the bottom then can we. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bottom line is it is what it is. There simply had to be consequences of the Post Season Operation schedule, consequences, no doubt, of Melbourne's late season success and attack at the Premiership. Trying to blame people, looking for leakages, shedding of responsibilities is all like spitting in the wind. It solves nothing, you can't blame Misson for the injuries...

Injuries are not the excuse, they were a fact of life. Not much you can do about that. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Gerard Whateley this morning led his show on SEN stating that Melbournes poor start to the year was simply due to our #interruptedpreseason that according to some on here did not exist. 

He said its not an excuse,  it's the reason. 

This is what’s most pertinent. In fact, Goodwin has said all along that it is not an excuse.

  • Like 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:


Probably didn't release the info cause you don't let the opposition know how weak you really are.
Now its damage control.

 

We are mentally weak more than physically weak.

Hawks roll into the season without their Brownlow medalist, Scully underdone, no Birchall, Burgoyne and Frawley under injury clouds. Yet there they are again knocking on the door of the eight getting the job done.

Richmond missing big stars, still got their foot on the gas with no let up.

Not at Melbourne. Send a few blokes out for minor surgeries in October and we soil the bed. Pathetic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I was a bit guilty of thinking we had a plethora of player riches to choose from. I know many others thought the same. Once the new year came and players were still hobbling around, the penny dropped for me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this points to a number of impacts - not only were we essentially 33% down on completed sessions, 22 to 33, we were also down 36% in the number of played who did them (25 to 39).

This speaks to a decrease in conditioning prior to the first game, but also speaks to individual players not being confident or up with their skills.  Even more importantly, the lack of team cohesion becomes apparent when the players have had little chance to work together on the game plan, on changes to the gameplan, and to convert ‘what we have to do’ into instinctive play through repetition. 

The lack of cohesion is critically apparent.  Poor decision making, looks like there is low trust for players to complete what is expected of them (lead to space, win an contest) and this is dramatically slowing the play, allowing the opposition to become completely set behind the ball.

So no excuses.  However how can you realistically compete when your team is >5% down across the board (Rusty Nails stats analysis),  only 2/3 of players completed 2/3 of the volume and training?  Seems like either a disaster, or long term planning in action.  My suspicion is they thought they could get away with it, but are being caught out.  The pressure will go on to be more competitive, and as we start to bring important players back and conditioning and cohesiveness improves, the back part of the year should be vastly improved.  It is still a terrible waste, however!

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The upside of this - and this is how clubs like Hawthorn view it - is an opportunity to see how some of the kids slash lesser lights shape up.

I reckon on the evidence so far Hore and Lockhart look like they could be the goods. Preuss also brings something although sadly he has joined the injury list.

Clearly we are underdone - and while some might think it misguided I suspect the leaking of this was well-intentioned - but that does not really explain our vanishing skills as witnessed last week.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

I think this points to a number of impacts - not only were we essentially 33% down on completed sessions, 22 to 33, we were also down 36% in the number of played who did them (25 to 39).

This speaks to a decrease in conditioning prior to the first game, but also speaks to individual players not being confident or up with their skills.  Even more importantly, the lack of team cohesion becomes apparent when the players have had little chance to work together on the game plan, on changes to the gameplan, and to convert ‘what we have to do’ into instinctive play through repetition. 

The lack of cohesion is critically apparent.  Poor decision making, looks like there is low trust for players to complete what is expected of them (lead to space, win an contest) and this is dramatically slowing the play, allowing the opposition to become completely set behind the ball.

So no excuses.  However how can you realistically compete when your team is >5% down across the board (Rusty Nails stats analysis),  only 2/3 of players completed 2/3 of the volume and training?  Seems like either a disaster, or long term planning in action.  My suspicion is they thought they could get away with it, but are being caught out.  The pressure will go on to be more competitive, and as we start to bring important players back and conditioning and cohesiveness improves, the back part of the year should be vastly improved.  It is still a terrible waste, however!

 

Great post Buck.

Totally agree on all points. I think they have  absolutely overestimated our depth (like many of us here, me included), thinking some of our fringe players could burden the load until the guns were all back and firing. Scrape a few wins early in the season and then re-load and expect more of the same domination of late last year. 

It`s been a disaster, but I guess these surgeries had to happen at some stage and now we are copping the ramifications.

We are likely to turn it around mid season, problem is our season is already cooked.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

The upside of this - and this is how clubs like Hawthorn view it - is an opportunity to see how some of the kids slash lesser lights shape up.

I reckon on the evidence so far Hore and Lockhart look like they could be the goods. Preuss also brings something although sadly he has joined the injury list.

Clearly we are underdone - and while some might think it misguided I suspect the leaking of this was well-intentioned - but that does not really explain our vanishing skills as witnessed last week.

They`ve lost all their confidence (in themselves and in each other) as a result of the first month of footy I reckon PIt and secondly once their lack of fitness kicks in, the basic skills like hitting simple targets goes out the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    OVERPOWERED by George on the Outer

    In a dismal display against Port Adelaide, Melbourne showed it had learnt nothing from their previous week’s loss to Brisbane. Port, in contrast, after losing to St.Kilda, addressed their failings, and as a result made the Demons look like a second-rate side.  Melbourne failed to score a goal in the first quarter, and the first time it seriously troubled the goal umpire was saved until a minute before half-time.  Did it get any better?  No with their meagre three goals for the sec

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    DESPERATION OF THE MOMENT by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne’s recent win against Hawthorn highlighted how important Max Gawn’s ruck domination is for the team. A week later however, that domination continued but its effect was totally blunted by the Brisbane Lions midfield and, as a consequence, what could have been an easy win over a leading AFL contender turned into a disappointing but close loss and a sense of desperation now looms over the club as the halfway mark of the season approaches. This week’s opponent in Port Adelaide also und

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE FOUR POINT FAIL by George on the Outer

    Melbourne went down by 4 points in a thrilling finish against Brisbane, but they failed by more than the 4 points.     They also failed to score the 4 points necessary to keep them in the race for the finals, and now find themselves sitting 6 points outside the top 8, but effectively 2 games outside (even though they have a game in hand).   The Demons had more than enough opportunities to win.  Six very easy shots on goal failed to bother the goal umpire with a major and ultimate

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    NORTH OF THE BORDER PART 2 by The Oracle

    The travelling COVID circus moves north of the border yet again and, unless at some time in the near future, Papua New Guinea opens its borders, this could be the last time this phenomenon happens. And as fortune would dictate, the resurgent Demons are walking directly into the sights of the locals from the bright lights of Brizvegas to Carrara - the scene of some long-forgotten (and deservedly so) battles with one of the Lions’ former incarnations, namely, the Brisbane Bears. But unli

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ON THE NOSE by George on the Outer

    One of the Hawthorn Football Club’s valued sponsors is Azep® Nasal Spray and given the thrashing handed out to the Hawks in today’s game, it would appear that they need a huge supply of the sponsor’s product because they are simply on the nose. This condition was caused by the sheer dominance of the Demons, led magnificently by skipper Max Gawn with 27 hitouts and 22 disposals including two clearances. Around him in the middle were Christian Petracca with 29 touches, Clayton Oliver (also on

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PREMIER LEAGUE by Whispering Jack

    So the new man under the pump is Clarko, which demonstrates how sad but predictable the football media is these days. In an age where each AFL team’s form can be topsy turvy and unpredictability is the order of the day, the coach of a team that has played five out of the top six teams from the previous season and sits with a 3/3 win loss record is this week’s whipping boy.   This comes admittedly on the back of a bad fortnight from the Hawks who in recent years have exhibited an enormous

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    SUNSMART by George on the Outer

    If you don’t want to get sunburnt, you follow the Sunsmart rules.  Melbourne took the advice and with their season on the line, avoided getting burnt by the Gold Coast Suns, with a gripping 17 point win. It was a match that could have gone either way, with the sides within a kick of each other for all but the final minutes of the final quarter. Melbourne had stretched the lead earlier in the game to 18 points, but that quickly evaporated to a neck and neck race to the finish.  Finally,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    NORTH OF THE BORDER by The Oracle

    The outcomes of Melbourne’s recent games against the Gold Coast Suns are a pretty good barometer of how the teams are faring. The Demons easily accounted for them twice in 2018, the last win being a 96-point cakewalk at the MCG in Round 20 when they scored a whopping 21.17.143 to 7.5.47. Ironically, Melbourne’s score of 9.3.57 at the first break that afternoon is leading its highest score for a full game to date this year by 3 points. In those days, they played fast, skillful football, moved th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 5

    PACK YOUR BAGS by George on The Outer

    The scene was captured by the TV camera’s before the match with a view of the Melbourne side’s bags packed next to the team bus to facilitate their flight up north to the AFL hub where they will play their next matches. However, on the basis of the efforts against Richmond, unless things change, and change rapidly, there will be some who will be told to pack their bags on a more permanent basis. Once again, the supporters got much the same story from this match against Richmond, as

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SOUTH OF THE BORDER by the Oracle

    Thankfully they moved this week’s game from Sydney where the sun shines and the virus breeds ever so slowly and almost nobody returns a positive test. The change of fixture comes at precisely the right time to allow everyone in town to head to the MCG on Sunday at around 3:30pm, not to catch up with what’s going on inside the ground but rather, to do what’s fashionable for woke folk in 2020 — pulling down statues. It’s time for Kevin Bartlett and Leigh Matthews to go but you can’t touch Norm Smi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    LESSONS IN LOSING by George on the Outer

    Turn up for the game and look like you want to win it.  Melbourne lost this game to Geelong, a game after a couple of extended breaks, looking like they were at the end of a 22 game season. Right from the start there was a lack of intensity across the board, as the Demons played exactly the type of game that the ageing Geelong list wanted. Geelong repeatedly played possession footy, to avoid having to run those ageing legs, something that Melbourne failed to exploit.  To use the oft quot

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    QUARRANTINO by Whispering Jack

    At a little after 4.00pm last Saturday, the MCG ceased to be the centre of the AFL universe. That was when the AFL’s el supremo Gil McLaughlin announced that the Bombers’ Conor McKenna had returned a COVID-19 positive result and declared that the game set for the following day between Essendon and Melbourne was postponed.  What followed was truly the stuff of a pulp fiction novel. We witnessed a suitcase load of mental gymnastics and spin calculated to let McKenna (and the Essendon Football

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

×
×
  • Create New...