POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[dpositive 1,767]

12 hours ago, Nasher said:

I do wonder if many of our members ever watch any footy games not involving the MFC. The lack of perspective when we lose is amazing.

I watch what's on tv and listen on the radio. Whoever is on.

i never hear the commentators querying bizarre umpiring efforts or inexplicable patches of play when play on or wrong player gets free asi do when Melbourne play.

Went to MCG QB and saw how a side knowing it would get the free , or the mark and would not be penalised for blocking, head high tackles, in the back etc can play more confidently and win.

Saw the Gold Coast game live and saw a Melbourne team take the umpires out of it by playing in front attacking the ball and playing with confidence.

Theres more to it than that but the coach needs to get some confidence in this team unless he has a cunning plan to steal the flag through sleight of hand.

The last quarter minutes showed how well these players can play. Should never have required that.

New plan needed, 

What has Pedersen and Stretch and Frost done to be continually ignored.

Yes I know but they put in more effort for full four quarters and while they won't win a match can carry the stars who can.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

I gave Jaded a reply because I’m a fan, I respect her views and we’ve known each other on here for a long time. The opinion of most others is water off a duck’s back, don’t worry!

Passionate supporters or armchair experts don’t change anything. We played like shyte. That we can all agree on.

Edited July 1, 2018 by america de cali

[Deemania since 56 6,749]

16 hours ago, SFebey said:

Jones is going downhill badly, racks up cheap possessions to get his 20-30 but they don't hurt opposition oir add value, goes missing when needed.should have traded him years ago while he had some value, one trick pony and constant turnover king.

Gawn take a bow, probably best game for the club, 25 disp, 11 marks, 39 hit outs.

Goodwin needs to be asked some serious questions

Our season is a waste, Garlett, Petracca, Tyson combined with B graders ANB, Jones, Vince, Lewis, Hannan, Weid.

What the hell is going on with the forwards? Hogan? junk time goals, better today but jeez.

Backline is atrocious, paid $750k & 2 first rounders for a guy with wonky knees then hello....hope he comes back OK.

We need to rid these B Graders from the list, do a Hawks/Swans and bring in experienced performers. We don't have the cattle and we have a pretty dumb coach.

There are no excuses to lose that game, it's utterly disgusting and embarrassing.

Makes me feel disloyal to the Club, but these are things that must be said, so thanks, Febes.

The concentric ring of doubt at our Club seems to rotate around Goodwin, FD decision-making, team selection and configuration, game plans and alternatives, long-bombing, stubborn tolerance of poor decisions in recruiting and minimal player confidence, the latter combined with a complete breakdown in understanding, reassurance and motives of the umpiring fraternity as the gleaming polish of recent successes obvioualy does not meet the demands of the AFL hierarchy.

2018 is down the drain - even if we qualify for the finals, and that is also uncertain.

Another year of limbo due to secondary deficiencies causing primary failures. 

[DeleteUser 638]

16 minutes ago, Skuit said:

You shouldn't spend so much time defending yourself Nasher. I hate it when every week supporters who come here to dissect a game get crowded out by those who want to vent because they can't control their logic and emotions. And thoughtful discussion seems to enrage them even more. If you're not angry you must be a loser. Okay.   

Can't you do both?

Totally understandable people want to vent and rage. Normal.

Also normal to want to calmly dissect.

I'd like to think DL could do both (but hey, I'm new here so maybe not).

Maybe post match needs 2 threads: a Vent/Rage Against The Melbourne one and then a Buddhist/Zen dissection.

Serious suggestion.

[Skuit 10,031]

4 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I gave Jaded a reply because I’m a fan, I respect her views and we’ve known each other on here for a long time. The opinion of most others is water off a duck’s back, don’t worry!

I also respect Jaded. But I have to say, there are a few armageddon posters on here that make it difficult to have a decent discussion after a loss. I was abused for bringing up a thread about not putting teams to the sword last year - because I was obviously getting ahead of myself. But you would think by the reaction to a couple of losses that everyone on here is accustomed to being in the 8 at this time  of the year.  

[DeleteUser 638]

2 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Makes me feel disloyal to the Club, but these are things that must be said, so thanks, Febes.

The concentric ring of doubt at our Club seems to rotate around Goodwin, FD decision-making, team selection and configuration, game plans and alternatives, long-bombing, stubborn tolerance of poor decisions in recruiting and minimal player confidence, the latter combined with a complete breakdown in understanding, reassurance and motives of the umpiring fraternity as the gleaming polish of recent successes obvioualy does not meet the demands of the AFL hierarchy.

2018 is down the drain - even if we qualify for the finals, and that is also uncertain.

Another year of limbo due to secondary deficiencies causing primary failures. 

For me the worst part when we miss finals will having a giant question mark over next year.

Currently treading water with nowt to inspire confidence for next year.

A R1 win, or QBW win/close showing or Port win might have done that. Or a Hawks win or close Tigers game.

As it stands it feels like 2019 will be more of the same

But then who knows. Maybe Goodwin has a genius plan that involves this waste of a year.

[Fat Tony 5,291]

It was a terrible loss yesterday. Hopefully it is the circuit breaker and Goodwin can realise he is making some dreadful errors.

1. We should be playing only two key forwards (Hogan and McDonald). Weideman will be a good player in time, but the balance of our side is being put out by playing all three. Either Spargo or Garlett needs to come in so that our forward pressure is high.

2. Tyson is not a winger. He is either in our best four inside midfielders or he is in the VFL. We need someone who can cover the ground on the outside, particularly defensively.

3. Frost must play in Lever's absence. Frost makes errors but he gives us some speed and athleticism out of defence.

4. The role of Lewis also needs to be considered. Can we win a flag with Lewis at half back? I doubt it. I know he is a smart player and generally good user, but he is a massive liability defensively. Vince is better defensively and not as slow, but he does not win as much ball and makes some brain fades. Wagner could be a better option than both.

 

[Skuit 10,031]

1 minute ago, timbo said:

Can't you do both?

Totally understandable people want to vent and rage. Normal.

Also normal to want to calmly dissect.

I'd like to think DL could do both (but hey, I'm new here so maybe not).

Maybe post match needs 2 threads: a Vent/Rage Against The Melbourne one and then a Buddhist/Zen dissection.

Serious suggestion.

Of course you can do both. People can do whatever they want. I recall a couple years back that several of us were advocating for two match-day threads - one a running commentary of emotion and one a discussion of footy. It didn't fly. Market economy rules. 

[DeleteUser 638]

3 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I also respect Jaded. But I have to say, there are a few armageddon posters on here that make it difficult to have a decent discussion after a loss. I was abused for bringing up a thread about not putting teams to the sword last year - because I was obviously getting ahead of myself. But you would think by the reaction to a couple of losses that everyone on here is accustomed to being in the 8 at this time  of the year.  

Fair comments. I think it's about expectation though. You can understand reticence to continue malingering in mid table mediocrity. I get it, totally.

 

[DeleteUser 638]

3 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Of course you can do both. People can do whatever they want. I recall a couple years back that several of us were advocating for two match-day threads - one a running commentary of emotion and one a discussion of footy. It didn't fly. Market economy rules. 

Market economy paradigm does not have to be so. The mods can enforce it by issuing a diktat and scribing it in code of conduct then boot / suspend transgressors.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Of course you can do both. People can do whatever they want. I recall a couple years back that several of us were advocating for two match-day threads - one a running commentary of emotion and one a discussion of footy. It didn't fly. Market economy rules. 

I was one of those advocating for two match day threads. It wasn't to silence anyone, but I find it cathartic to discuss the game as rationally as possible, rather than flying off the handle. Those that do so are welcome to do it and I understand why. I just don't like wading through the muck to get to that quality discussion. But, as you say, market economy rules and the ignore function comes in handy. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

8 minutes ago, timbo said:

Maybe post match needs 2 threads: a Vent/Rage Against The Melbourne one and then a Buddhist/Zen dissection.

On D-land always
MFCSS will win
Rage will trump reason

Like rain on a pond
Inner calm will be broken
Those weak f***in c****!!!!!

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

6 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

On D-land always
MFCSS will win
Rage will trump reason

Like rain on a pond
Inner calm will be broken
Those weak f***in c****!!!!!

Calm and reason won’t change anything. Rage can smash things and kick the cat. 

[SFebes 4,884]

The biggest issue on demonland is people going from thread to thread and potting others' opinions, at least bring a decent discussion, good or bad, play the ball not the man. Passion in footy is a wonderful thing, football clubs are built around it and we should let it be, people handle things differently. Let them have their say, take it or leave it.

[Skuit 10,031]

7 minutes ago, timbo said:

Fair comments. I think it's about expectation though. You can understand reticence to continue malingering in mid table mediocrity. I get it, totally.

 

I can of course understand why people want to sound-off. I'm not immune. But I also manage to deal with it when someone cuts in front of me without indicating without in turn brandishing a shotgun. I also recall you being one of those advocates @Wiseblood, but a few of us have been pegged as feel-good apologists. There is occasionally a rare thread on here where everyone applies their wits and it's an absolute joy - and everyone agrees it's a joy. Until someone brings up our match against Collingwood last year or whatever. 

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I was one of those advocating for two match day threads. It wasn't to silence anyone, but I find it cathartic to discuss the game as rationally as possible, rather than flying off the handle. Those that do so are welcome to do it and I understand why. I just don't like wading through the muck to get to that quality discussion. But, as you say, market economy rules and the ignore function comes in handy. 

 

[layzie 34,162]

I'm as guilty as anyone for coming on here to rant after a loss like that. Having said that I do enjoy reading the rational input on here. In the moment its probably not what we want to hear but I'm definitely glad there are people here that can offer that in those moments. 

[ding 5,126]

12 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Calm and reason won’t change anything. Rage can smash things and kick the cat. 

 

[DeleteUser 638]

8 minutes ago, layzie said:

I'm as guilty as anyone for coming on here to rant after a loss like that. Having said that I do enjoy reading the rational input on here. In the moment its probably not what we want to hear but I'm definitely glad there are people here that can offer that in those moments. 

Me too. I like both. Sorry about that. I can't rant at home because Flagpies Wife has put up with it for much too long and my 3YO doesn't get it (yet). Only a MFCS knows the feeling.

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

40 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

2. Tyson is not a winger. He is either in our best four inside midfielders or he is in the VFL. We need someone who can cover the ground on the outside, particularly defensively.

It’s becoming extremely difficult to defend Tyson lately. One passage of play typified his game yesterday. 

During a centre bounce in the first quarter he lined up on the wing ( southern side) standing right next to his opponent. He wasn’t even aware the ball had been bounced because he was looking down at the ground at the time. Inexcusable and poor concentration.

His opponent had taken off into the square, only then did Tyson realise he better get on his bike but way too late. The guy lacks leg speed as it is and yet Goody persists with him there. Of course the hit-out came southern side and his opponent with a 3 metre gap won the ball and kicked it forward resulting in a shot at goal for them. 

I don’t like to pot players but this only an observation. I was keeping an eye out for Tyson on the wing to determine what we actually gain from it. 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Dee Zephyr

[Neil Crompton 5,733]

Personally I like the rage. It gets the anger out of the system. If not for Demonland where else would that anger be vented? 

[Willmoy1947 4,172]

11 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

Collingwood also played their best 4 quarter game against us according to Buckley,  Hawthorn probably had their best game against us too. It's a worry that we can bring out the best in opposition. Are we being outcoached , I'm not sure but quite possibly. 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but I'm pretty sure Stkilda are the ONLY team to have come off the bye and beaten a team who played the previous weekend .

#whyus 

 

The reason is because they (the Clubs) know they will be given the benefit of anything doubtful....... my opinion, call it the amicable edge...

[titan_uranus 25,059]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

You shouldn't spend so much time defending yourself Nasher. I hate it when every week supporters who come here to dissect a game get crowded out by those who want to vent because they can't control their logic and emotions. And thoughtful discussion seems to enrage them even more. If you're not angry you must be a loser. Okay.   

Or worse, the dreaded “apologist”. 

45 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

It was a terrible loss yesterday. Hopefully it is the circuit breaker and Goodwin can realise he is making some dreadful errors.

1. We should be playing only two key forwards (Hogan and McDonald). Weideman will be a good player in time, but the balance of our side is being put out by playing all three. Either Spargo or Garlett needs to come in so that our forward pressure is high.

2. Tyson is not a winger. He is either in our best four inside midfielders or he is in the VFL. We need someone who can cover the ground on the outside, particularly defensively.

3. Frost must play in Lever's absence. Frost makes errors but he gives us some speed and athleticism out of defence.

4. The role of Lewis also needs to be considered. Can we win a flag with Lewis at half back? I doubt it. I know he is a smart player and generally good user, but he is a massive liability defensively. Vince is better defensively and not as slow, but he does not win as much ball and makes some brain fades. Wagner could be a better option than both.

Good post. 

Definitely agree with point 2. As to point 1, I would have disagreed pre-Queen’s Birthday. In the 6 wins we looked good with Hogan and TMac running riot in the fowars line and up the ground, with a third tall taking the ruck duties off them. 

However, as we continue to struggle with our inside 50s and forward pressure, I think we have to bite the bullet and go smaller, and use TMac as the second ruck. 

Have to agree with point 3 - Frost isn’t very good but Petty is clearly worse. 

As to 4, I wouldn’t be rushing Vince back. But Lewis’ disposal is getting worse and without good kicking, his value plummets towards zero. It’s a problem, that’s for sure. 

[Gator 17,633]

While our backline definitely has issues we lost this game through the middle of the ground. 

St Kilda went to school on our QB game and used run and overlap in a swarm once they gained possession.  

Until we can defend through the middle of the ground we won't get anywhere. 

But where I'm more positive than most is that aspects of our game are top notch.  And they're aspects that are not easy to get right.  Contested possession, clearance work and the ability to get repeat F50 entries are areas all clubs aspire to excel in, but it's not easy to achieve. 

I do think we should be able to develop far better defensive structures through the middle of the ground. 

But we're running out of time.  Clearly, Goodwin takes the blame for this, but I trust he can turn it around.

Edited July 2, 2018 by ProDee

[Megatron 886]

45 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

It was a terrible loss yesterday. Hopefully it is the circuit breaker and Goodwin can realise he is making some dreadful errors.

1. We should be playing only two key forwards (Hogan and McDonald). Weideman will be a good player in time, but the balance of our side is being put out by playing all three. Either Spargo or Garlett needs to come in so that our forward pressure is high.

2. Tyson is not a winger. He is either in our best four inside midfielders or he is in the VFL. We need someone who can cover the ground on the outside, particularly defensively.

3. Frost must play in Lever's absence. Frost makes errors but he gives us some speed and athleticism out of defence.

4. The role of Lewis also needs to be considered. Can we win a flag with Lewis at half back? I doubt it. I know he is a smart player and generally good user, but he is a massive liability defensively. Vince is better defensively and not as slow, but he does not win as much ball and makes some brain fades. Wagner could be a better option than both.

 

Spot on. 

We have too many of the same type of players in the midfield. I think Tyson will be traded at the end of the year. Try and bundle him up with another player and try and get some more early picks in the draft. 

We are lacking leg speed and spread. Need Kent to get back and get some touch to give us some speed on the outside up forward. He was looking alright until he did his hammy. Spargo has to come in and replace Weed. We are too tall up forward.

Hannan needs a spell. Hoping VendenBerg comes back soon. He’ll add something up forward. 

Baker maybe. Provide a bit of X factor but is he ready? 

I’m not keen on Stretch. That game against Richmond he was like a deer in headlights. 

Would anyone agree putting Hunt on a wing once he’s back to provide some outside run?

[What 18,810]

44 minutes ago, layzie said:

I'm as guilty as anyone for coming on here to rant after a loss like that. . 

Its normal and every clubs supporters do it.  And we are some of the tamer more reasoned supporters.

Cats fans were calling for Scotts sacking after they lost to the Dogs the other night.

Some other teams fans go around looking for fights after games when they lose. Ever heard of Demon supporters violently attacking anyone?  I haven't.   

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Petraccattack