POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[picket fence 17,146]

My son is in New York and he rang me straight after the game and heaped scorn ….. And blame!

On me for indoctrinating him from birth as a die hard Dee!

Consigned to torment!

His footy career ended at 25 after 3 serious knee operations and he said to me .. Dad what is going on ? we have a great list some great in and under's and still cannot cut it!! Can players respond when up against it?

Shattered!

Walking away from the G, I thought of Rob and put myself into memory mode! to give some relief!

Tonight, I  may watch the last round in 87 vs Doggies , have more than a few scotches and dull the pain!

Will it ever end?

Edited July 1, 2018 by picket fence

[Redleg 40,899]

22 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Re the umpiring, it was appalling at one stage I thought I was watching the world  cup such was the over officiating, but we lost the game through our own sheer incompetence. 

Oliver is off the boil and that is showing weaknesses in our mid field and the lack of midfield dominance is exposing our weaknesses on the outside and down back. The backline is a shadow of its former self during the 6 game winning streak. Except for Hibberd I don’t think we won a one on one contest all day.

And as for the forward line, they may as well be called the Forward Squadron, Everyone flies for every inside bomb, no one down. And what happened to forward pressure? They ran the ball back out of our 50 at will. 

 

Well who is going to apply the forward pressure from Jesse, Weid, TMac, Hannan,  Melksham and add Tyson who are all relatively slow? Baffling selection . 

Who kicked the most goals today, Gresham, a crumber and we had none.

 

[Bonkers 994]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Yes, obviously he can see that it has consequences, that’s why he mentioned it as the reason for the loss. 

We didn’t run two ways under Roos either. We ran defensively but were impotent in attack. To me it doesn’t matter which one we do poorly - that only dictates whether the game we lose is a high scoring or low scoring one.

We all hoped that we were a side that consistently did this. We obviously aren’t yet. It’s frustrating. I get that. I’m not ready to make the jump from “not there yet” to “never will be”, two years in to the coach’s tenure.

If he see's it as a reason for the loss why doesn't he address it in the structure of the team. It's hard to run 2 ways when you don't have the cattle capable of doing it. The teams full of plodders with no run and pace. It's been the main reason weve lost games against Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and now St.kilda. This is both a list management shortcoming as well as a  coaching error.

I'm all for Goodwins attacking style and high scoring however he needs to realise when it doesn't come off we have no chance of winning the game. We are over committed to one style and most teams have now worked us out. I'd say there is no way a coach like Clarkson or the Scott brothers would be so committed to winning clearances and contested ball without considering having a defensive system that balances that out if things begin to go the wrong way on game day.

You raise a good point stating that we haven't been two way runners since the Roos era. If this is the case what has the club been doing in this time? It's a cornerstone of any successful defensive team to cover the ground. It's non negotiable and just expected that it is done or you don't play. There is a clear deficiency in our list of players capable of covering the ground end to end. If the AFL decides to change the rules in order to open up the game more I have serious concerns about what this will mean for this group of players and the current coach.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Great way to end an other wise excellent weekend. 

Well done dees yet more pain and misery for supporters to deal with this week. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by DemonOX

[shorty 233]

 

Remember this seems like all has been forgotten, almost exactly the same performance

 

Jones: It's a pretty bitter pill to swallow #MFCMedia

Jones: The players are hurting as much as our supporters are livid #MFCMedia

Jones: The mood has been very flat. Yesterday was out of our control due to our performance on Saturday #MFCMedia

Jones: It's a ruthless competition. This is an opportunity to address the inconsistencies in our performance #MFCMedia

Jones: Credit to West Coast. They were able to get the job done yesterday #MFCMedia

Jones: The last 5 minutes of the Adelaide and West Coast game was very nerve wracking #MFCMedia

Jones: The blame falls on our shoulders #MFCMedia

Jones: I couldn't be more optimistic about where we are heading though. Hopefully this experience leaves us in a better position #MFCMedia

Jones to supporters: We've only got ourselves to blame - the entire result of the year put us in this position #MFCMedia

Jones: We'll address those inconsistencies though and get it right. It can be frustrating and disappointing but we'll get there #MFCMedia

Jones: You can't underestimate how good Collingwood were and how poor we were in some fundamental parts of our game #MFCMedia

Jones on season as a whole: There's definitely been improvement, both individually and collectively#MFCMedia

Jones: However, we also know that we've missed an opportunity here. It's a tough lesson to learn#MFCMedia

Jones: You can sit back and feel sorry for yourself but you get what you put in #MFCMedia

Jones: We'll go away and work hard to give ourselves every chance next season. This will spur us on#MFCMedia

Jones on Clayton Oliver: He's pretty stiff to miss out on All Australian selection but I have no doubt he'll be in contention next year.

Jones on Jack Viney: He'll be back better than ever next season

[DemonOX 8,791]

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

My son is in New York and he rang me straight after the game and heaped scorn ….. And blame!

On me for indoctrinating him from birth as a die hard Dee!

Consigned to torment!

His footy career ended at 25 after 3 serious knee operations and he said to me .. Dad what is going on ? we have a great list some great in and under's and still cannot cut it!! Can players respond when up against it?

Shattered!

Walking away from the G, I thought of Rob and put myself into memory mode! to give some relief!

Tonight, I  may watch the last round in 87 vs Doggies , have more than a few scotches and dull the pain!

Will it ever end?

Don’t worry Picket my kids ask me the same thing. 

I keep saying “one day” but even I doubt that now. 

Btw your son is a lucki bastard being in NY. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by DemonOX

[frankie_d 1,471]

3 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

 I'd say there is no way a coach like Clarkson or the Scott brothers would be so committed to winning clearances and contested ball without considering having a defensive system that balances that out if things begin to go the wrong way on game day.

 

In fact, the Hawks were notable for losing the cleareances... did OK there for a few years!

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

4 minutes ago, shorty said:

 

Remember this seems like all has been forgotten, almost exactly the same performance

 

Jones: It's a pretty bitter pill to swallow #MFCMedia

Jones: The players are hurting as much as our supporters are livid #MFCMedia

Jones: The mood has been very flat. Yesterday was out of our control due to our performance on Saturday #MFCMedia

Jones: It's a ruthless competition. This is an opportunity to address the inconsistencies in our performance #MFCMedia

Jones: Credit to West Coast. They were able to get the job done yesterday #MFCMedia

Jones: The last 5 minutes of the Adelaide and West Coast game was very nerve wracking #MFCMedia

Jones: The blame falls on our shoulders #MFCMedia

Jones: I couldn't be more optimistic about where we are heading though. Hopefully this experience leaves us in a better position #MFCMedia

Jones to supporters: We've only got ourselves to blame - the entire result of the year put us in this position #MFCMedia

Jones: We'll address those inconsistencies though and get it right. It can be frustrating and disappointing but we'll get there #MFCMedia

Jones: You can't underestimate how good Collingwood were and how poor we were in some fundamental parts of our game #MFCMedia

Jones on season as a whole: There's definitely been improvement, both individually and collectively#MFCMedia

Jones: However, we also know that we've missed an opportunity here. It's a tough lesson to learn#MFCMedia

Jones: You can sit back and feel sorry for yourself but you get what you put in #MFCMedia

Jones: We'll go away and work hard to give ourselves every chance next season. This will spur us on#MFCMedia

Jones on Clayton Oliver: He's pretty stiff to miss out on All Australian selection but I have no doubt he'll be in contention next year.

Jones on Jack Viney: He'll be back better than ever next season

Round 23 last year??

[shorty 233]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Round 23 last year??

Yep but unfortunately for us long suffering , could change Collingwood for St Kilda sad thing end result likely the same. 

[Bates Mate 4,486]

1 hour ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Goodwin refuses to coach. I saw one move today and it was pointed out in the game thread also. Fritch moved to loose man in the back during the second quarter and he was our best forward at the time. Just wow!

I did see another he put harmes who was our best line breaker all day deep forward in the last when the game was still up for grabs . I'm losing faith in his ability to adapt and when he does try something is the obvious wrong move

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

2 minutes ago, shorty said:

Yep but unfortunately for us long suffering , could change Collingwood for St Kilda sad thing end result likely the same. 

This club doesn’t learn. It never has since Norm was sacked, Which is why i keep saying it. 

A Rookie Coach will never turn this psychological cot case around,we have too many internal injuries

[Earl Hood 6,086]

2 minutes ago, Bates Mate said:

I did see another he put harmes who was our best line breaker all day deep forward in the last when the game was still up for grabs . I'm losing faith in his ability to adapt and when he does try something is the obvious wrong move

Didn’t TMac go down back for 5 minutes in the second half then went back forward? And Max going off with 10 minutes to go for quite a period of time had me flummoxed. 

[dees189227 12,390]

I learnt something today. Don't go to the footy thinking you are just going to win. I  think the players thought it was just going to win.

That was the worst game ive seen them play in ages. I've never seen our backline play so badly. Jetta will hopefully never play that badly again,  Oscar was beaten and it just looked out of sorts.

We just never applied pressure on them and allowed them to pass the ball around easily.  

It was just laughable in the end. Again we are thelaughing stock of the afl

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Our game plan, such as it is, utterly fails to cope with an opposition's counter-gameplan.

As soon as a side sets up to deny us space, we go to water.

[deejammin' 2,370]

Pathetic, the result would be a shock but we do this so often it’s just so predictable. 

I would’ve taken flat track bullying our way to finals, but we can’t even do that! St Kilda are complete shite, they have beaten Brisbane and Gold Coast (who they were down by 5 goals against!). They didn’t even play that well today we just kept giving them easy looks, turnovers and inept defence.

I can’t believe Goodwin.

Viney, tagging against a team with one good mid when we’re winning the hit outs! Wtf!!

TMac on a wing when our backs are getting monstered. 

Hogan on a HFF for the first three quarters against a team he usually monsters.

Selection: Petty, not ready. Left one out at full back regularly.no crumbers, no speed, no big quick backmen.

Game day: keeps an extremely high press for three quarters when the saints continually get out the back of us. No anchor backman within cooee of their forwardline when we have the ball. OUR FORWARDLINE: How do you have last week happen and still not change the strategy. Why does he think bombing to talk forwards in packs with no crumbers will work?!

The umpiring was shocking, a few of our players had just awful games, a few shouldn’t be playing at AFL level. But ultimately, this game was lost at selection and by the coaching panel. That we got within two points inspite of complete ineptitude just drives this point home.

Our group desperately needs to make finals and learn to play in big games. It’s hard to see us doing it now.

Goodwin does some things well but when things arent working he is far too stubborn and his match day credentials are very weak. Worrying.

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by deejammin'

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Fremantle lost Fyfe and Sandilands today, which at least gives us a chance next week. But I can't see us winning another game if we jag a win against The Dockers.

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

I agree Hannon needs a rest, and I'm a fan! He is flying for too many marks that aren't his, spoiling bigger forwards. His output today is not enough.

From what I saw Hannan isn't the only one flying for marks that aren't his. Most of the marking packs on the Melbourne forward line are full of Melbourne players trying to out mark each other. I don't understand how coaches don't kick players' arses for continually making these basic errors.

The selection of McDonald, Hogan and Weidemann simply compounded this problem this week. Throw in Harmes and Hannan and sometimes Fritsch flying at once as well and hey, it's not bloody rocket science.

[faultydet 7,594]

29 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Don’t worry Picket my kids ask me the same thing. 

I keep saying “one day” but even I doubt that now. 

Btw your son is a lucki bastard being in NY. 

My oldest son gave up on the Dees several years back.

I continue to buy him a membership every year, but have made no effort to convince him to back the Dees, and lost 4 grandkids to Rugby League as a result.

 

This club is killing itself, and has nowhere else to look for blame.

 

Lets be honest, until our young decent players are 2 or 3 years older, we are going nowhere.

[red&blue1982 255]

1 hour ago, ProperDee said:

It’s all been said but I have to vent to release some of this anger.

Playing Jack Viney as a tagger is one of the worst coaching decisions I have ever seen. 

Tyson should never play for the MFC again. 

I wish Harmes would just play team first football instead of trying to do the heroic/spectacular every time he goes near the footy.

ANB? Not a footballers ahole. Never has been. Never will be. 

I feel sorry for Harry Petty. Thrown in on spec. Not his fault. Will come good I’m sure. 

Frost has clearly murdered Goody’s cat.

I harbour serious doubts about “The Weed’s” progression to senior football.

Our coach (and Petracca) needs to start getting angry.

Frost made a few mistakes in games last season and was dropped quite promptly. And I remember people on this site suddenly thought little of him. Oscar Mcdonald seems to be able to make blunders every game without getting dropped. I don't get it.

[Jaded No More 68,906]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

His main point in the post match today was that we failed to run defensively. That we’re capable of doing it (ref: the 5 in a row) but it’s not ingrained yet. There was no double speak in there at all.

It’s not a bad quite as exciting as “structure! Selection! Drinking own bath water! Team balance! Another failed season!”, but the message is there for anyone willing to stop thinking they’re the senior coach for long enough to listen.

Sure, he gets that we need to run both ways, but does he get that when you play someone like Tyson on a wing, make your best inside mid tag, play 8 marking forwards, refuse to pick leg speed and constantly allow teams to drop 2 back, that it’s quite hard to do the two way running thing? 

I don’t except his media conference to mean [censored]. It’s all media training garbage anyway. I just expect not to see the same mistakes after 20+ games coaching, in which the same glaring issues continue to rear their ugly head. 

There is no doubt that we are an OK team. We have talent and we are good at winning contested ball. Excellent foundation to work from. But we continually let ourselves down with selection, with match ups, with game plan. It’s concerning, and it may well cost us finals. Again.  

[DemonOX 8,791]

I am so sick of this crap year after year after year. 

How can the players get ahead of themselves considering our awesome past. 

You would think they would have minds of a steel trap but no as soon as they start winning they think it’s just going to start happening (without the hard work). 

FMD wake up boys we are all sick of this [censored] year in year out. Pull ur [censored] fingers out and get into the right mindset. 

Nothing comes without hard work. 

[junk 342]

this team will self destruct in 5 secs, I am going to get the f.ck out of here. Welcome to slumpville supporter,trust us,give us another chance. Another titanic story,except the captain doesn't go down with the ship,it us who do.

[chook fowler 19,458]

Using Viney as a tagger is madness. When he was let off the leash we started our comeback. I don’t really understand what is going on in the coaches box but it ain’t working 

[DemonOX 8,791]

8 minutes ago, faultydet said:

My oldest son gave up on the Dees several years back.

I continue to buy him a membership every year, but have made no effort to convince him to back the Dees, and lost 4 grandkids to Rugby League as a result.

 

This club is killing itself, and has nowhere else to look for blame.

 

Lets be honest, until our young decent players are 2 or 3 years older, we are going nowhere.

It’s really sad faulty that our kids feel this way but u r right the club has no one else to blame but themselves. 

U r a good dad for continuing to buy him a membership. 

The club just can’t be trusted which is really disappointing tbh. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Simon Goodwin What has Sam Frost done to you? Stands at 194cm runs and breaks the lines big bodied and certainly can play and can make mistakes just like the ones that don't take chances and that is even a bigger mistake. I have a feeling he has to be played because he has been playing consistently well.  Petty was not ready to play in his debut game as he was certainly overawed   and made some dumb mistakes. Certainly not a key position back at the minute. Joel Smith has played 6 career games and doesn't look ready at 

all  another replacement for Lever. Simon what the censored are you thinking?  FUGAZI FUGAZI FUGAZI FUGAZI????????????????????????? Well  UNFUGAZI and listen, you have a ready replacement for Lever in Frost and he has to play.......

UNFUGAZI and bring back some experience  . Petty 1 game and J Smith 6   both playing in the backline today  didn't have an understanding to switch play in defence which slowed us down going forward and certainly helped to cost us the game. I can elaborate but l am so gutted l have lost faith and l speak for myself only. Simon Goodwin and his merry men you are doing my head in..