Hogan the Crumber

[Moonshadow 16,178]

5 minutes ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Yeah, you're right, everything's fine and it is unreasonable of us to expect him to get a kick in big games against Collingwood and Port.  FFS.

He didn't say everything's fine. Let's not think the sky is falling because Jesse's had a couple of quiet games after his first 9 or 10 were at AA level. He and the FD will be working on it.

And the last thing we want to get is an egotistical player from a different era to mentor him. I saw The Kid drink himself stupid (amongst other vices) so many times at nightclubs during the 80s and 90s, it's no wonder his current analysis isn't capable of much more than the obvious.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Change your game Jesse Crash the packs again and make the opposition crap themselves. 5 marks 5 kicks and 5 goals and that is 5 poss for the game. Anything more is a bonus. We are not asking for much. COME ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just do it.

[faultydet 7,593]

44 minutes ago, ProDee said:

How many games did Richmond's "stars" have under their belt before they started to perform in the big moments ?

Never said it wouldn't happen PD.

Simply disappointed that it hasn't happened regularly yet, apart from Oliver Viney Gawn, and T-Mac.

 

I thought last week was the first display of true finals style football that we have played in the Goodwin era, and one of the best games i've ever seen (losing aside). It's a bloody shame we didn't get over the line, as it would have only taken 5 minutes of Hogan/Petracca to have iced the game for us.

Once our guys have the maturity to play that way week in week out, we will be in Premiership mode, and bloody hard to stop.

[McQueen 17,863]

44 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

He didn't say everything's fine. Let's not think the sky is falling because Jesse's had a couple of quiet games after his first 9 or 10 were at AA level. He and the FD will be working on it.

And the last thing we want to get is an egotistical player from a different era to mentor him. I saw The Kid drink himself stupid (amongst other vices) so many times at nightclubs during the 80s and 90s, it's no wonder his current analysis isn't capable of much more than the obvious.

Brereton made the observation within the game. Did the coaches fail to do that or did Jesse play a different game to their instructions?

The quicker it's sorted the better because Hogan playing as a KPF would've quite likely have meant the 4 points went to us.

I love Hogan as much as anyone but brushing this off as nonsense is a nonsense in itself.

[Gator 16,893]

2 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Never said it wouldn't happen PD.

Simply disappointed that it hasn't happened regularly yet, apart from Oliver Viney Gawn, and T-Mac.

 

I thought last week was the first display of true finals style football that we have played in the Goodwin era, and one of the best games i've ever seen (losing aside). It's a bloody shame we didn't get over the line, as it would have only taken 5 minutes of Hogan/Petracca to have iced the game for us.

Once our guys have the maturity to play that way week in week out, we will be in Premiership mode, and bloody hard to stop.

We're all impatient, but nearly all of our best players are sub 80 games.  

We had 15 under 100 on the weekend compared to Port's 9, yet in most metrics we smashed them.

I get sick of the excuses too, but I'm consoled by a strong view that the future is very bright.

[tiers 2,769]

My only nagging doubt is that, even when we smash teams in the metrics (thanks for the right words ProDee), we still lose.

The worst metric is inside 50s. How many times have we lost games when the difference is 20-30 entries? We equaled the record (83) in a game this year but kicked only 20 goals and not 30. Why?

2020 can't come soon enough.

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

Three talls in the forward line doesn’t work in tight high pressure games where the opposition pack the backline. The third tall should go and leave Hogan and McDonald there with an extra crumber. Play an extra tall in defence is what we need also. Hogan and Petracca ATM are neither fish nor fowl in their current roles. Both promise a lot but lack direction.

Edited June 26, 2018 by america de cali

[deelete my account 1,194]

What is our Forward line long term? Is it not TMAC and WEID crashing packs with Hogan roaming up the ground and taking a mark on the wing as a solid linkman, running forward with the flight and causing a problem size wise for his HB opponent? Is Adelaide's Tom Lynch a shark? Hogan as the crumber was more attributed to Ports outstanding ability to get back and flood the defence wasn't it? 

Edited June 26, 2018 by John Demonic

[Lucifers Hero 37,040]

1 hour ago, Brownie said:

It was interesting to hear Roos talk about us before the port game  last week.

He said one big area for concern was that our forward structure has not settled properly yet.

The bombing wouldn't have helped.

I think Dermott is commenting on the symptoms and Roos knows the cause.

Hope it gets sorted quickly. 

I didn't hear Roos' comments but imv the core problem is the strategy of 'flexible' mid/fwds.  It means a player needs to learn many roles, many positional plays, and many game plan nuances. 

Its very difficult to follow structures when 8 players are rotating positions during a game.  eg who and to where are the forwards leading patterns?  Who are the crumbers?  Where are their 'go-to-positions' - when we attack thru the middle...when we attack down the line?  Who are the 'run-with-the-ball-carrier' mids for a particular play? etc 

So our forwards are often out of position, too many/not enough/wrong player go for a mark and too many go for the ground ball, leaving defenders free to clean up.  It is no wonder our 'connection' with the midfield is poor and we can't convert the massive numbers of i50's.

Also, if players aren't in their 'go-to-positions' when the ball comes in quickly the midfielder's kicks go to a defender or bombed to nowhere.  That is what we see but often I think it is because our forward structures aren't being followed because forwards are confused by too much to think about in split seconds. 

It takes teams years to get cohesion in their forward line and this comes form the same players playing together for a long time, learning the structures, their role in that structure, each others playing styles, strengths etc. 

Even the very best teams play with a core of 4 forwards in the same position week in and week out for 80-90% of the game.  For mine we are just not experienced or talented enough to play with 8 flexible players each week.  So our structures break down.

FWIW, I think that is part of the reason why Petracca is struggling - he doesn't have a set role that he can grow into and make his own.  I reckon it is also why Jesse is struggling a bit.  It is why Jeffy can't get a game.  imv they should all be played as forwards, not some hybrid.

Anyway, that is my theory.  (Apologies for so much detail)

Like you I hope it gets sorted out quickly - it would be good if we put players in the position they are best suited and build the structures around that, not the other way round.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[Demons11 6,404]

 

People whinge when they fly together and also whinge when he doesn’t fly. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,462]

2 hours ago, Brownie said:

I think Hogan would look good with blonde tints in his hair too ?

He could play like Dermott with the right mind space. He is crying out for a mentor. 

He has the talent, but needs to focus it

[SFebes 4,692]

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He could play like Dermott with the right mind space. He is crying out for a mentor. 

He has the talent, but needs to focus it

He’s quite close to Carey, wouldn’t be surprised if he got in his ear this week after the criticism however I hear Carey is in Bali so maybe no coffee catchups this time

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,804]

The midfield minutes have to dry up now and get back to what he does best thats being a Key Power Forward.

To be honest the Forward dynamic in our 50 needs to be re-jigged, We are crying out for a specialist Small Forward (Jeffy) to crumb off Tmac and Hoges maybe part of the reason he's out of form.

[Sir Why You Little 34,462]

31 minutes ago, SFebey said:

He’s quite close to Carey, wouldn’t be surprised if he got in his ear this week after the criticism however I hear Carey is in Bali so maybe no coffee catchups this time

Dermott is the one. His career was unbelievable. 

5 Day and 5 night Premierships. He expected victories weekly...

i have spoken to him about it...Winning was the total norm at Whorethorn (and still is tbh)

Edited June 26, 2018 by Sir Why You Little

[SFebes 4,692]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Dermott is the one. His career was unbelievable. 

5 Day and 5 night Premierships. He expected victories weekly...

i have spoken to him about it...Winning was the total norm at Whorethorn (and still is tbh)

Carey’s career wasn’t bad either!

[Sir Why You Little 34,462]

3 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Carey’s career wasn’t bad either!

No it wasn’t. But Dermott did it for longer at the top of the ladder, year after year. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,447]

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No it wasn’t. But Dermott did it for longer at the top of the ladder, year after year. 

Dermy didnt take any prisoners either.

While there's no room for Cameron (Dermy!) type incidents in the game, as Derm said... Hulks a big unit he needs to present, crash more packs and put a bit of fear into the defenders pushing back...get the ball to ground for the crumbers if he can't mark.  Nothing new for a KPF role and certainly looks very easy from the bleaches.   But needs doing.

With Viney and now Tyson in the line up (assuming he stays), Hulk certainly doesn't need to be spending as much time in any mid field rotation role either (wasting energy that should be used making multiple leads / crashing packs in the forward line).  Not his forte anyway.  A bit of time occasionally across half back where needed to assist in icing a game or when trying to control momentum (contested marking / spoiling etc) but that's it.

I have no doubts Goody & Co. will be trying to fix the mess (up forward) of the last few weeks, including some of the aweful delivery etc.  However, he would probably need to train the crumbing/outside mid fielder mind set out of Hulk also that was useful prior to Viney / Tyson retuning but is now (mostly) redundant.

Having an in form dual KPF of T-Mac at FF & Hulk at CHF is critical to our structure & short/medium/long term success.  As soon as we move away from this base set up we will lose more often than win against rated opponents IMHO.

If we are to make finals Goody will need to fix the above, and fast!  No better opportunity than the next 3 weeks.

 

[SFebes 4,692]

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No it wasn’t. But Dermott did it for longer at the top of the ladder, year after year. 

I’m surprised you admire Dermie, who was one of the biggest thugs of his time, yet hate in Cameron.

[What 18,810]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

 

i have spoken to him about it...Winning was the total norm at Whorethorn (and still is tbh)

Yup.  I hate that club, and its probably cos I want the MFC to be like them.

No mercy , winning at all costs, success is non negotiable. Year after year, decade after decade.

Their supporters are spoiled.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Petraccattack

[Sir Why You Little 34,462]

1 hour ago, SFebey said:

I’m surprised you admire Dermie, who was one of the biggest thugs of his time, yet hate in Cameron.

Dermott took a lot back. He was tough

Cameron is a coward

5 weeks is an absolute joke

[monoccular 16,072]

 

15 hours ago, america de cali said:

Three talls in the forward line doesn’t work in tight high pressure games where the opposition pack the backline. The third tall should go and leave Hogan and McDonald there with an extra crumber. Play an extra tall in defence is what we need also. Hogan and Petracca ATM are neither fish nor fowl in their current roles. Both promise a lot but lack direction.

Have any Casey watchers seen if Weideman has done any time in defence when another tall is needed temporarily to help settle down maybe after a run on by the opposition ( I realize that this hasn’t happened a lot at Casey this year)?  

14 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

The midfield minutes have to dry up now and get back to what he does best thats being a Key Power Forward.

To be honest the Forward dynamic in our 50 needs to be re-jigged, We are crying out for a specialist Small Forward (Jeffy) to crumb off Tmac and Hoges maybe part of the reason he's out of form.

......., or Spartacus who has shown he can offer more consistent  defensive pressure that has Jeffy so far. 

[hardtack 10,127]

20 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Get Dermott down to the club NOW to forward coach Hogan. 

Pay him a good wage, he knows exactly what Hogan should be doing, as he was the same player 30 years ago

GET Dermott MFC

4-6 goals a game we should be getting with our i50 count

68 last week and Hogan was unsighted!!!!

MADNESS..

Start a Change.org petition SWYL... I’m sure that’d carry more weight than a comment on a footy forum.

[Sir Why You Little 34,462]

2 minutes ago, hardtack said:

Start a Change.org petition SWYL... I’m sure that’d carry more weight than a comment on a footy forum.

Haha and then get junk emails every hour ad nauseum!!

[hardtack 10,127]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Haha and then get junk emails every hour ad nauseum!!

Nothing good comes without a cost. Take one for the gipper SWYL.

[Redleg 37,599]

When the ball comes into the F50 where are our smaller forwards placed and what are they doing?

We don't need the big mark from Jesse or TMac to get all of our goals.

Look at the  3 last quarter goals of Port for example, Sam Grey, Thomas and a Westhoff 50.

We need the occasional chip kick into the F50 to a player making position, like other clubs do to us.

Our smaller forwards seem to drift in and out of the game, while for example the Tigers small forwards stay involved, even without the ball, by performing the 1%'s, chase, tackle, knock on, make position, take your man away from the contest ( open up space) etc.

To me our game plan going into the F50 (against good sides), combined with suspect skill under pressure and a lack of pace, is what is letting us down against the better sides.