Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

15 hours ago, Doodle Dee said:

I recall a Mindfulness thread a month back about Richmond building mental resilience, why not get them in for one of those retreats instead of the physical boot camps?

That was my thinking, would add far more benefit to give the players some intelligent insight rather than putting them through a 1970s style commando camp

[Smokey 4,389]

Ex SASR member here

Smart decision from the playing group

[rjay 24,917]

Goodwin looks a good coaching prospect but is still only a 1st year coach...

The 2 years under Roos don't count to experience of being in the actual drivers seat, all care & no responsibility.

Pagan said the other day that he felt he didn't really get the hang of senior coaching until his 5th year. Plus he had years of coaching at lower levels to help prime him. 

Goodwin has made some classic 1st year mistakes to my thinking but luckily they don't seem to be fatal...yet

The camp was poorly run last year and there was no point in going back over old ground with a new and improved camp.

The players have saved his bacon this time as they have on other occasions. A maturing young group.

Let's hope he has learned and we move on.

[Demonstone 22,486]

What if we got the Kardashians to run it and rename it Booty Camp?  The players might give that a crack.

[Gator 17,332]

35 minutes ago, fndee said:

So what do you think, assuming a reasonable run with injuries, is a pass mark in 2018? Top 4, top 6, 8 or ten?

I'm more interested in wins than guessing a ladder position. 

14 mimimum is my expectation.

[binman 42,896]

5 hours ago, ProDee said:

Vineytime posted this after last year's camp.

- Salem badly concussed at the commando style camp

- Tyson injured his knee quite badly and will miss a large chunk of pre season training

- Hibberd injured knee also, not as severe as Tyson. 

It's little wonder the players had reservations, especially as there were reports their recovery took a number of days post the camp.

I'm not really sure where i stand on the camp cancellation but fully agree with the bolded bit.

i do think it is unfortunate it got to the eve of the camp before it was sorted but clubs can't have it both ways. By that i meant these days they are all about 360 degree feedback, empowering players, and players driving culture. Richmond are an example of the benefits wit the team apparently given a great deal of influence, with just two examples being the feedback given to their coach about his approach and the shift in game plan.

So if the players say they don't think the camp is a good idea their views should be respected. 

[Gator 17,332]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm not really sure where i stand on the camp cancellation but fully agree with the bolded bit.

i do think it is unfortunate it got to the eve of the camp before it was sorted but clubs can't have it both ways. By that i meant these days they are all about 360 degree feedback, empowering players, and players driving culture. Richmond are an example of the benefits wit the team apparently given a great deal of influence, with just two examples being the feedback given to their coach about his approach and the shift in game plan.

So if the players say they don't think the camp is a good idea their views should be respected. 

 The players only found out about the camp on Monday. 

[Chook 15,012]

I like Simon Goodwin but could he please stop using that word "humble"? Humble is amazing in everyday life, but it has no place in my footy club after what we've endured. I see humble and I read "meek."

 

Jack Watts is humble. Jimmy Toumpas is humble. I don't want humble. I want "demonic".

Edited December 15, 2017 by Chook

[binman 42,896]

16 minutes ago, ProDee said:

 The players only found out about the camp on Monday. 

That's a bit strange from the club i would have thought. Given what is involved that is very short notice - particularly given it involved one overnight stay and t players might have family or other events planned given how close to XMAS it was going to be,, not mention if you are a parent, partic of little ones, things would have to be sorted

[Big Carl 333]

2 hours ago, Chook said:

I like Simon Goodwin but could he please stop using that word "humble"? Humble is amazing in everyday life, but it has no place in my footy club after what we've endured. I see humble and I read "meek."

 

Jack Watts is humble. Jimmy Toumpas is humble. I don't want humble. I want "demonic".

Not yet convinced about Goodwin.

[Big Carl 333]

10 hours ago, sisso said:

Who cares: none of this is going to mean jack when the season starts

True. A summer of kick to kick and running around witches hats is a great pre season!!!

[Wolfgang219 73]

I can’t believe how accepting our supporters are of this type of behaviour. 

 

Whilst we we can debate the benefits of a camp and resilience training the main issue is the players are cherry picking when to put in the effort, surprisingly, just like in games. 

 

I have no issues hearing the players have raised their concerns after last year. This resulted in changes and was addressed by the coach and football department(in a formal briefing) but to continue the grievances to the ALFPA demonstrates the players want to pick and choose their training.

It’s not up to them to decided if they see a benefit in the training (half the list is under 24  FFS) and that’s why you employee coaches. 

Do these same players complain when the first year players went to South Australia and went swimming with sharks and playing golf or is that okay because that’s a fun camp? Do they complain when they go to watch movies for bonding? 

Given the importanced placed on recovery, diet etc etc (in their excuses) then I hope non of these players drink alcohol over the break as you can’t pick and choose when it’s important and when it’s not... it was 72hrs FFS

Edited December 15, 2017 by Wolfgang219

[Wiseblood 24,637]

8 minutes ago, Wolfgang219 said:

Whilst we we can debate the benefits of a camp and resilience training the main issue is the players are cherry picking when to put in the effort, surprisingly, just like in games. 

Cherry picking?  Please.  Don't make me laugh.

The players have raised concerns about a camp that causes injuries and hampered conditioning last year, and they have every right to do so.  If a large majority of the players walked away from that camp and felt worse than they did before, then something is wrong.  The players aren't complaining about anything else - many have come back in peak condition, we have minimal injury concerns and it sounds like they are extremely happy with how the pre-season is tracking.

Why cancelling a needless camp is classified as 'cherry picking' when to put in effort is beyond me.  This is no different to teaching a student - you need to find out what makes them tick and how to get the absolute best out of them.  Goodwin has learned a valuable lesson as a young coach and he now knows that a camp run by people outside the footy world is of no benefit to the team.

Onwards and upwards.

[Bells 155]

I was lucky enough to spend last Christmas with a Dee.  He was shattered.  More exhausted than he had ever been (and this was 4 days after it).  His body was covered in blister ans scars that impacted on the training he was able to do afterwards.  He said he hoped he would never have to do it again and he couldn't really see the great advantage it would give the team.  This is from a fella that pushes his body to the limit all the time, has been through awful injuries and come back again even stronger.  I am prepared to take his word for it that it didn't help his game training in any way, shape or form.

[Big Carl 333]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Rounds 22 & 23 were worrying signs, yes as they were in 2016 

First Quarter performances during the 2017 season were mostly very poor.... I don’t have to be part of the inner sanctum to extrapolate such information

If you don’t see that, that’s your choice

53 years of mediocrity and so it goes on and on...

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

3 minutes ago, Bells said:

I was lucky enough to spend last Christmas with a Dee.  He was shattered.  More exhausted than he had ever been (and this was 4 days after it).  His body was covered in blister ans scars that impacted on the training he was able to do afterwards.  He said he hoped he would never have to do it again and he couldn't really see the great advantage it would give the team.  This is from a fella that pushes his body to the limit all the time, has been through awful injuries and come back again even stronger.  I am prepared to take his word for it that it didn't help his game training in any way, shape or form.

but if that was the case and I don't doubt you, how was Goodwin and his team so out of touch with the player group that they decided to repeat the exercise.

For the players to involve the AFLPA smacks of desperation in the sense that it should have been resolved long before it got to that stage.

Just an amazing stuff up on the part of the MFC

[Wolfgang219 73]

   Come on wise. 

 

The direction of the club, training, drills, what is is set by the coaches not the players. The players input how they are feeling, muscle soreness etc etc on an app daily which feeds back into the conditioning staff which manages loads. 

 

If the conditioning staff had an issue because of training loads in January you could understand the angst but players believing it’s no benefit is not something I give much weight too. They haven’t early the right or have the experience to determine benefit. 

[Big Carl 333]

5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

but if that was the case and I don't doubt you, how was Goodwin and his team so out of touch with the player group that they decided to repeat the exercise.

For the players to involve the AFLPA smacks of desperation in the sense that it should have been resolved long before it got to that stage.

Just an amazing stuff up on the part of the MFC

Blah, blah, blah "the guys are shattered as a result of Round 23" blah, blah,blah...

[Wolfgang219 73]

34 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

but if that was the case and I don't doubt you, how was Goodwin and his team so out of touch with the player group that they decided to repeat the exercise.

For the players to involve the AFLPA smacks of desperation in the sense that it should have been resolved long before it got to that stage.

Just an amazing stuff up on the part of the MFC

Hence why this is a bigger issue than most think... the players raised their concerns and were briefed four days later by the coach and FD on what measures had been put in place to alleviate these concerns. 

 

The players have have pulled out because they didn’t see the benefit in the training and that is rubbish. Once the club determines that the activity is safe, then it is not up to the players to determine the ‘worth’ of the activity which should be at the sole discretion of the coach. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Wolfgang219

[deelete my account 1,194]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That was my thinking, would add far more benefit to give the players some intelligent insight rather than putting them through a 1970s style commando camp

You're five foot nine? I didnt know they stacked [censored] that high!

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

boot camps are [censored]. team building exercise my foot. as if 100 x 100m sprints plus all manner of other gruelling and punishing fitness conditioning doesn't bind the players together tighter than a mafia gang. better to spend the time on goal kicking practice.

BUT

after our atrocious finish to the season, they should be putting up their hands to run through brick walls. not worrying about what effect the mortar might have on their nail polish.

they should be trying to demonstrate to each other, bugger the rest of the football world, that they are so upset, so burnt, so hungry for success that they will go through any hardship without a backward step, to leap over that final gap instead of inching ever closer to it like zeno's achilles.

but here we are. the appearance is that they have run sooking to the AFLPA to try to get them off the hook! whether that's the reality or not, that is the appearance, so it becomes the reality.

the leadership group need a good hard look at themselves

are they swanning about town, chatting up the girls with can't-fail lines like "hey babe. i'm kind of a big deal. yeah, that's right. I nearly played in finals this year."

the inmates do not run the asylum. it's a recipe for downfall and calamity in a team sport. 186.

training the house down, having "not the youngest" list, getting Lever, shifting Watts .... all utter irrelevancies until this club can rid itself of the mental softness that has afflicted it for years and is apparently still going strong.

[BAMF 4,349]

12 hours ago, jackaub said:

Had my normal Friday coffee with work collegues

I didnt know anything about this .Carlton supporter  ,one of the grouop  brought up the issue.

How embarrassing? Not that it happened for what ever reason good bad or what ever

The fact that it was made public continues the perception that the club and the players are soft and mentally weak.

This club should learn how to manage situations like this.

It is hard to understand how this was so badly handled. Shows  the club in a very poor light and is hard to defend

 

What? A Carlton supporter hangs [censored] on you and you got embarrassed for supporting our great club? F'ing weak.

My Carlton supporter mate tried to give me a bit a few years ago. I punched him in the face and said 'I support Melbourne you salary cap cheating scum!' 

Never tried anything again.

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

I've been trying to keep away from the dees for the early part of the preseason.. but at a high level, this is incredibly disappointing to hear.

Mental toughness and mental resilience is pretty much what seperate good players from great. All players in the AFL system can play football at a very good level, but the mental application of the skill into the game separates players and teams from the rest. The mental dedication to keep pushing and keep working can be the difference in a season..

I was really happy to hear they were being put out of their comfort zone and mentally tested. Not for the fitness/aerobic benefits, but the fact they would start to learn with the right mental application they could push themselves past where they thought they couldn't...

To hear they opted out of this challenge seems to show they aren't ready to give their all to find their edge.. find what seperates them from the rest of the comp. It seems again they are happy to believe it will be handed to them, like they are owed something...

This is the strongest indication of this preseason so far on what to expect from Melbourne in 2018. Fkn Melbourne ey?

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

50 minutes ago, Doodle Dee said:

You're five foot nine? I didnt know they stacked [censored] that high!

"Were you born stupid, or did you have to work on it?"

"Where you come from is only steers and queers and I don't see no horns, boy"

 

[Macca 16,961]

The club is screaming out for a ruthless edge and that's probably why Goodwin wanted to go ahead with the boot camp - the issue is probably the timing.  It looks like the players didn't see it coming if they only found about it on Monday. 

The outcome smacks of a club trying to catch up with the field ... the disconnect is more so the club finding it's way. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Macca