Changes vs Hawthorn

[What 18,810]

Hawks will get Rioli and Birchall back for Sundays game.

Will be interesting to see if Clarko swings the axe.  More likely he gives his team one more chance to turn their season around vs us.  We must be on our game.

[Lucifers Hero 37,110]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Possibly, but then Mitch Hannan came in and kicked a couple in his first game for the club, so it's not impossible for him to do.  He may need a little more time but he's played two games and, if memory serves me correctly, he hasn't troubled the scorers at all.  That's not great for a small forward.

As I said, he may be asked to play more defensively than someone like Garlett, but then Jeffy can lay some ripping tackles and still kick a few goals (although admittedly he plays much closer to home than JKH does).  You know me well enough by now LH to know that I want all players to succeed and I'd like to think I don't get stuck into any of them, but I do feel as though JKH needs to add some goals to his game to give himself a chance of keeping his spot longer term.

I'm a Kent fan for sure, but he deserved to get dropped and his form at Casey doesn't necessarily get me excited.  But I think he's a better prospect long term than JKH is.

Fair enough. 

TBH I'm not sure either of them are best 22 if we ever have a fully fit list to choose from.  Others on our list are ahead of both.

 

 

[titan_uranus 22,443]

4 hours ago, Chook said:

Aside from the obvious (but possibly overrated) exception of Gawn, this is our best possible team IMO.

I'm going to take this as meaning we're actually not as bad without Gawn as those who don't pay proper attention to us and just say "no Gawn, no Melbourne".

As opposed to some sort of comment that Gawn isn't actually as good as people say he is.

It surely couldn't be the latter, could it...?

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fair enough. 

TBH I'm not sure either of them are best 22 if we ever have a fully fit list to choose from.  Others on our list are ahead of both.

 

 

You could well be right about that.  Kent can't rest on his pace and rangy left foot kick to get him a game anymore.  Goodwin set the precedent with Watts - he took the hard line approach and it's paying dividends.  

[Chook 14,549]

20 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm going to take this as meaning we're actually not as bad without Gawn as those who don't pay proper attention to us and just say "no Gawn, no Melbourne".

As opposed to some sort of comment that Gawn isn't actually as good as people say he is.

It surely couldn't be the latter, could it...?

The former, although Gawn is overrated in that people rate him even higher than the rucking awesomeness that he truly represents. The way people talk about him, you'd be forgiven for thinking we've never lost with him in the side.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,217]

From this weeks VFL review. Its not how many touches you get it is clear it is about showing the right behaviours,

Dean Kent: Dean had 22 disposals, five marks and kicked a goal. His performance over the weekend was the type of football we know he can play. He was able to really impact some contests and put on a lot of forward  50 pressure. Kenty also laid some significant tackles in attack. His ability to put the opposition under pressure was really positive

[Deespicable 2,548]

I'm still suffering the shock of having no idea which player will be included/dropped this year.

I'm not sure which of the following has gobsmacked me more:

1) Jack Watts being told he wasn't training at the required level (I still think there was more to it than a poor skinfold).

2) Weids being persevered with for seven games until he made an injury-induced howler that will have shot his confidence and may well ruin his career.

3) Kent being dropped after just two games back for JKH - who is yet to leave a mark on any of us, except for one game in Adelaide two years ago.

4) Harmes being dropped despite being possibly the hardest worker against Richmond - thereby throwing into question the whole logic of coaching staff loving the guys who do the one percenters.

5) Melksham being persevered with as a defender when he seems to lack peripheral awareness. Happy to see what he can do on the wing.      

Having said that I think it goes with the territory of having a new coach at a club and they will have a different set of favourites to the previous coach.

I'd be shocked if Jesse didn't get a call up this week but who goes out is in the lap of the gods, or rather the Goods.

[pinkshark 935]

Anyone ever confident when Kent lines up  for goal?  Anyone ever confident when Kent lines up for a goal on the run?  Me either.  

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

33 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

I'm still suffering the shock of having no idea which player will be included/dropped this year.

I'm not sure which of the following has gobsmacked me more:

1) Jack Watts being told he wasn't training at the required level (I still think there was more to it than a poor skinfold).

2) Weids being persevered with for seven games until he made an injury-induced howler that will have shot his confidence and may well ruin his career.

3) Kent being dropped after just two games back for JKH - who is yet to leave a mark on any of us, except for one game in Adelaide two years ago.

4) Harmes being dropped despite being possibly the hardest worker against Richmond - thereby throwing into question the whole logic of coaching staff loving the guys who do the one percenters.

5) Melksham being persevered with as a defender when he seems to lack peripheral awareness. Happy to see what he can do on the wing.      

Having said that I think it goes with the territory of having a new coach at a club and they will have a different set of favourites to the previous coach.

I'd be shocked if Jesse didn't get a call up this week but who goes out is in the lap of the gods, or rather the Goods.

1,3,4,5 I more or less agree. But 2... I don't think there's anything to say his confidence was shot in any way. Just got hurt. I'd be stunned, too, to see a kid's confidence be shot after one kick. Especially when he's shown in the VFL he's a good shot at goal from a set shot. May well ruin his career? Surely that's a bit of an exaggeration. If that circumstance is enough to ruin his career, then he wasn't worth drafting in the first place. I had the Weed vs McCartin vs the other young KPF debate the other day on here, and went looking for Tom Lynch's stats (the Adelaide one). His first few years were basically non existent. Weed doesn't need one or two seasons. He needs 3-5. Watts is exactly the same height (196cm) and took, what, 6-7 years?

13 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Anyone ever confident when Kent lines up  for goal?  Anyone ever confident when Kent lines up for a goal on the run?  Me either.  

I am?

He's been a bit off this year so far, but generally he's a good kick. Lovely action. I'd love to see the stats over his career so far, but no idea where to find the numbers. I loved his one from the boundary. Seems that kind of player. Misses gettable ones cos he overthinks. Then when the pressures off and it's one noone expects him to get he slots it.

[bing181 8,169]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm a Kent fan for sure, but he deserved to get dropped and his form at Casey doesn't necessarily get me excited.  But I think he's a better prospect long term than JKH is.

I don't disagree, certainly on JKH, but Kent has had more of an opportunity to prove his worth than JKH. Kent has had a year extra in the system, and fewer injuries - though both have had their fare share.

But the fact that in his 5th season, Kent is still being dropped to Casey to work on elements of his game makes you wonder though.

FWIW, Kent has another year on his contract, JKH is only contracted till the end of this season.

[Skuit 9,184]

4 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I've been following this game for a long time and know that when knowledgable footy people have a view that differs from mine they are most likely right and I should at least consider their position before dismissing it out of hand. I think you should be asking yourself why you differ from people who make a living out of footy, notably Goodwin and Worsfold.

 

This creeping default position in arguments here is becoming annoying, especially with the inconsistency it's applied. It's time for a little push-back. 

There have been many many people who have made a living out of football in the past, who have been sacked, because they evidently got it wrong.

There are many many people who hold jobs that are not my profession who I am certain I and half the people here could still do better than.

There are many many very intelligent people with strong analytical attributes who have been attending football for many many years. These people often don't get the opportunity to be involved at the highest level of football for existing outside of the circle. 

AFL coaches are people, with prejudices and blind-spots, and while they have inner-access to information we are not privy to, they are also operating in a highly insular environment and with the usual work-place hierarchies. They are also more highly scrutinised, and this can also have an impact on decision-making.

The collective wisdom of the posters here has been proven to have been correct many many times in the past.

IN: Wagner

OUT: Melksham

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

Kent for mine does not get considered until he is absolutely busting the door down. Needs to work on his output and effort when we don't have the ball.

Has an abundance of talent but needs to improve his professionalism and workrate.

Hogan the obvious in with possibly a key tall in Omac going out and maybe Harmes for JKH

[Binmans PA 26,217]

8 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Kent for mine does not get considered until he is absolutely busting the door down. Needs to work on his output and effort when we don't have the ball.

Has an abundance of talent but needs to improve his professionalism and workrate.

Hogan the obvious in with possibly a key tall in Omac going out and maybe Harmes for JKH

Yep, agreed, mate. And we have players that can tackle like he can't at the moment, so make him really earn his spot.

A fit and firing, consistent Dean Kent (which we've never seen) would make our forwardline very dangerous. He has some tools to make him an exciting player, but does he have the mental application?

[Deemented Are Go! 3,602]

We are raging favourites this weekend...again. 

Selections, injuries, blah, blah. 

Its time to actually bloody deliver and put away teams we ought to. 

We have the personnel with the right skill sets. This is about mindset. This is about being taken seriously. This is about pushing for finals, dammit! 

 

[bing181 8,169]

43 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

We have the personnel with the right skill sets. This is about mindset. This is about being taken seriously. This is about pushing for finals, dammit! 

That's also what they're saying over at Hawthorn.

[The Red Fox 216]

On 30/04/2017 at 10:39 PM, billy2803 said:

Those calling for Kennedy to come in will be disappointed. He was average on Saturday at Geelong. There's absolutely no way he replaces JKH or ANB.

Kent may come in, but I wasn't impressed with his VFL game. Yes, he was in the best, but it wasn't a dominant performance. 

I would imagine the only change would be Hogan coming in. At whose expense? Depends on what KPIs the likes of JKH and Oscar have.

One thing I don't understand is if Stretch was dropped, why have him as carryover emergency. He missed a chance to go back to Casey and work on his issues, so in theory, it should be impossible to pick him this week.

I'd say it was quite intentional that he was given a week's rest...

[mdemon 266]

3 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Hawks will get Rioli and Birchall back for Sundays game.

Will be interesting to see if Clarko swings the axe.  More likely he gives his team one more chance to turn their season around vs us.  We must be on our game.

This.

Possibly I am experiencing an existentialist form of MFCSS, but I am more than a bit nervous that the theme of current posts on this thread seem to suggest that the game this week is a"given" and that we can afford to start intentionally resting players in preparation for the "harder" games to follow.

I know we beat Hawthorn last time ( for the 1st time in an eon) but let's not get carried away with our prospects and that this match as a foregone conclusion - the cringeworthy nightmares of Essendrug in Round 2 and Carlscum in Round 22 are still burnt into my brain.

[Pates 9,537]

I think even though Hawthorn are having a bad start to the year, the perception is that they are still a club to be respected. I would be disappointed if any of our players were going to be taking this match lightly. 

I feel like if Jesse is keen to return than that will be the only change.

[junk 342]

The interesting comment someone made that Watts took 6-7 years to come good this was in respect to Weids performane/expectations. Watts probably would have matured quicker if we didn't have Neeld as a coach.Paul Roos basically had to cull most of the team. I have already given my views on changes v Hawks.

[monoccular 16,102]

5 hours ago, A F said:

Yep, agreed, mate. And we have players that can tackle like he can't at the moment, so make him really earn his spot.

A fit and firing, consistent Dean Kent (which we've never seen) would make our forwardline very dangerous. He has some tools to make him an exciting player, but does he have the mental application?

Certainly agree - IF he has the brain power / application to pull out his best on a consistent basis he should be a lock in best 22.  

Over to you, Dean. 

[jnrmac 19,022]

15 hours ago, Bay Riffin said:

I might be in a minority here but Melksham brings much needed urgency and impacts contests a lot. I think people don't see what he and JKH were bringing defensively for us on the weekend. He also has some toe. I keep hearing Wagner is quick but I didn't see a lot of pace when he played. Melksham is not as bad as people think.

My knock on wagner is that his disposal can be iffy and he hasn't got urgency or the fierce see ball get ball mentality. When he and Oscar play together its usually pretty bad. Now Wags might be taught to 'corral' players towards the boundary line etc rather than attack the man, so my interpretation may be way off but it seems to me that he needs to learn that quickly. 

As for Melksham, I am still undecided. Does some good things but does some equally poor things - I can see why the Ess fans didn't warm to him. And for someone that is into boxing he doesn't seem to do much physical contact stuff like tackling.... 

[jackaub 1,402]

16 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

A pressure act is when you are forced to agree with posts on Demonland so as not to be perceived as having no knowledge of footy, the perception being arrived at by the self appointed experts on Demonland

Dont often agree with you Saty but that is very very humorous Made me smile hehhehehehee

[jackaub 1,402]

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

My knock on wagner is that his disposal can be iffy and he hasn't got urgency or the fierce see ball get ball mentality. When he and Oscar play together its usually pretty bad. Now Wags might be taught to 'corral' players towards the boundary line etc rather than attack the man, so my interpretation may be way off but it seems to me that he needs to learn that quickly. 

As for Melksham, I am still undecided. Does some good things but does some equally poor things - I can see why the Ess fans didn't warm to him. And for someone that is into boxing he doesn't seem to do much physical contact stuff like tackling.... 

Reminds me of a previous mfc player who was into boxing big time and was no bloody good

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,457]

15 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Let's not miss the point re: JKH.  Pressure acts are fine, but he is in the side as a small forward, and they are required to hit the scoreboard.  He hasn't done that in the 2 games he has played.  To cement a spot in the side he will need to do both, like Garlett has been doing.  Kent was dropped for doing the opposite from two games (hit the scoreboard but didn't put on enough forward pressure), and on that basis JKH deserves to be dropped for doing the opposite.  His pressure might be fine but he is bringing little else to the table.

That's not necessarily true. The small forward's role might be to create opportunities for others to score. I think we'd all be happy if a small forward never scored a goal as long as the team is winning. Having said that, I'm sure if the opportunities arise for a small forward to score goals and he doesn't take those chances, we could quite rightly be disappointed.

[Constant Mongrel 571]

On 5/1/2017 at 11:02 AM, JV7 said:

Not sure which of the above is worse here... Tmac was in our best half dozen, played a key role roaming the ground.. And white ? If he gets another game again this club has gone backwards

t-mac was trash. just floating around going third man up doesn't take much skill. his foot skills and decision-making suck. hopefully we trade him for a reliable defender in next year or two. i'd hate to see a tight GF with him in the team. i included a '?' after white, as i couldn't think of another defender at the time. after reading the vfl report, perhaps wagner would be a better fit.