Changes v Essendon (Round 6)

[ding 5,126]

Irrelevant

We will lose to the drug cheats no matter who we swap in/out

[Boots and all 896]

1 minute ago, Sigil said:

Not going to quote despite the funny hypothetical prognosticating hyperbole, but Pederson really should have played tonight.

He's a very handy utility who can play back and forward, and also can clunk a mark on the wing (we don't do that enough). Adding that, he can play ruck and allow KP players more time in their actual role (like Watts).

He can add a lot to the team, even if his stats aren't great.

But he is sooo slow, having said that he uses his assets well.

[dazzledavey36 49,024]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Mitch King might be about to find out what league footy is all about sooner than he might have thought ... he might do better than people think too.  Once throw the lead role, the understudy ruckman often excels. 

Unlike Pedersen & Watts, King's stock-in-trade is rucking and he's probably been doing it for a lot of his young life.  King got 26 tap-outs on the weekend and even though he's probably not really ready, the alternative is that we'll get absolutely mauled again with a combo of Pedersen & Watts.  Neither Cam nor Jack know how to ruck properly and both are at best, back-ups.

Pedersen could then come in to replace Smith and Cam can also handle the back-up ruck duties.  This will free up Watts to play in the role that is best suited to the team (high half-forward, sometimes deep and with a few spurts in the midfield)

Just a suggestion

No, King will get slaughtered.

[titan_uranus 22,658]

Smith and Spencer will be out.

Viney and Jones must be questionable. Viney was ineffectual after quarter time. Petracca surely also doubtful.

I'd drop JKH even if all three of the questionable players have to go out. Find someone else, I don't care who.

Tyson, Harmes and ANB will all get another game because there are just too many injured players to go out before them.

Lewis, Pedersen and Bugg should all come in. 

22 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Pedersen might feel unlucky but "right to be peeved" is a bit rich.  He's been playing AFL footy for 7 years as an honest toiler.  If I were him I'd probably be grateful that I still had a job most people would dream about for the rest of the year.  

Nah he's right to be peeved. Neither JKH nor Smith showed sufficient VFL form to get a game and whilst Smith didn't get the chance to show it, JKH did and proved us right and the FD wrong.

It's time to reward the players in VFL form rather than continually pick the players the FD/Goodwin seems to think are the "future" or whatever, and that was the case before tonight. Pedersen should have played (might not have changed the result but it's true nonetheless).

[Jaded No More 58,675]

Anyone wanna guess how long Spencer will miss with an AC joint?

Gees we have rotten luck as a club!

[Macca 16,173]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

No, King will get slaughtered.

How are you so sure?

Pedersen & Watts will get slaughtered and if you believe that we're good enough to rove to Essendon's 50 - 60+ taps, you're dreaming.

Has Pedersen become a top-liner all of a sudden? I've never seen the bloke play 1 top game (ever) and he's as bad in the ruck as what Watts is. 

We go in with a Pedersen/Watts combo and we'll get smashed in the ruck and in the clearances.  And we'll lose the game.

[titan_uranus 22,658]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

How are you so sure?

Pedersen & Watts will get slaughtered and if you believe that we're good enough to rove to Essendon's 50 - 60+ taps, you're dreaming.

Has Pedersen become a top-liner all of a sudden? I've never seen the bloke play 1 top game (ever) and he's as bad in the ruck as what Watts is. 

We go in with a Pedersen/Watts combo and we'll get smashed in the ruck and in the clearances.  And we'll lose the game.

I get what you're saying but I don't agree that we're a certainty to get smashed with Pedersen in the ruck.

There is also the rest of the game we need to consider and if Mitch King isn't ready for AFL football then we simply cannot play him and we have to make do with what we have.

I'd prefer a fit and in-form Pedersen over a not-fit or not-in-form or not-ready King, essentially.

[Romey 127]

I wonder how Oscar McDonald would go in the ruck? He is fairly tall and would be able to hold his own in the body work. This would allow Pederson to come in for Smith. 

[Phadraig 760]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I'm not sure we have the depth but Tyson must be on thin ice, he's almost as slow and ineffective as Trengove these days.

What was his kicking efficiency tonight? He has been awful this year.

[Jaded No More 58,675]

Just now, Romey said:

I wonder how Oscar McDonald would go in the ruck? He is fairly tall and would be able to hold his own in the body work. This would allow Pederson to come in for Smith. 

Must eat many burgers between now and next ruck contest. Will likely snap in half. Unlike. 

[Macca 16,173]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

I get what you're saying but I don't agree that we're a certainty to get smashed with Pedersen in the ruck.

There is also the rest of the game we need to consider and if Mitch King isn't ready for AFL football then we simply cannot play him and we have to make do with what we have.

I'd prefer a fit and in-form Pedersen over a not-fit or not-in-form or not-ready King, essentially.

Check out Pedersen's stats when he rucks and have a good look at his rucking style - it is substandard.

I've got Cam in the side next week though - to replace Smith and to do the back-up ruck duties.  Most newcomers are 'not ready' ... the only way to find out if a player can play is to play them. 

 

[rjay 23,970]

49 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'd ruck TMac - he has the bulk for it and can run all day, he's done it before.

OMac into the backline with Frost and Hibberd.

Pedersen for Smith and he and Watts can both spell TMac.

Lewis for Melksham.

I think that's a good call 'Fifty'

45 minutes ago, Nasher said:

That's a huge piece taken out of our defence though.  I think I'd prefer to ruck nobody.

Not the way he's been playing 'Nasher'...we might have to do what Port did with Trengove.

It might also run Tommy into some form.

Edited April 24, 2017 by rjay

[titan_uranus 22,658]

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

Check out Pedersen's stats when he rucks and have a good look at his rucking style - it is substandard.

I've got Cam in the side next week though - to replace Smith and to do the back-up ruck duties.  Most newcomers are 'not ready' ... the only way to find out if a player can play is to play them. 

 

I'm certainly not saying Pedersen is going to dominate in the ruck, far from it. However, to be fair to him he's much fitter this year than in previous so if he's ever going to improve, this will be the year.

The issue with King is he's had, what, one VFL game since coming off a knee reconstruction. If we didn't have the injuries we wouldn't be considering him being selected for weeks, if not months. I don't like the thought of skipping his development just to stick him in the side because we're not confident in Pedersen (or Frost, or OMac, or someone else) when it could do more damage to a body that probably just isn't ready for AFL.

[dazzledavey36 49,024]

15 minutes ago, Macca said:

How are you so sure?

Pedersen & Watts will get slaughtered and if you believe that we're good enough to rove to Essendon's 50 - 60+ taps, you're dreaming.

Has Pedersen become a top-liner all of a sudden? I've never seen the bloke play 1 top game (ever) and he's as bad in the ruck as what Watts is. 

We go in with a Pedersen/Watts combo and we'll get smashed in the ruck and in the clearances.  And we'll lose the game.

Because he is a skinny 200cm 95kg beanpole who has had 12 months off and rucked against a country footballer standard ruckman on Saturday night. 

He would then come up against Matthew Luenburger who is no slouch at all. He would blow up at half time and struggle to barely raise a gallop.

Don't care how bad we are struggling with rucks, You do not throw a poor kid like that to the slaughter house.

[bing181 8,200]

I think they'll try and minimise changes. Still:

Need to cover KPF: Weideman or Pedersen. Hard to see who else it could be. Unless Frost gets another run forward, and we bring Oscar back in. Vandenberg and Smith both out are hurting us here.

Need to cover ruck: Pedersen or King. Also see above (Frost to ruck, Oscar back).

Lewis in: One of the HB out. Jetta or Melsham, but depends on other injuries, as Lewis could cover Viney or Petracca.

With those enforced changes, I don't know that JKH won't get to fight another day. If he goes out the only real like-for-like replacement would be Kennedy. Thought JKH improved in the second half as he got up to speed, managed to lay 7 tackles and take a few marks.

I wouldn't assume that Bugg automatically gets a call-up.

[whatwhat say what 19,311]

OUT: spencer, smith, petracca, melksham

IN: pedersen, lewis, o mac, bugg

basically i expect the first three to be out injured, and melksham has got to be dropped after another tackle-free performance...tyson next out the door, and i expect jkh to miraculously survive 

bugg deserves to be rewarded and tyson has got to be very close to being omitted, and there's no way we can throw a 19 / 20 year old who has played once since doing his acl into senior football so pedersen gets a go by default - i personally think he's a terrible ruckman and better as a forward, and watts is a better ruckman...but watts so important to our forward line structure that we can't not have him there at least 50% of the time and because pedersen CAN relieve ruck he WILL relieve ruck

we looking very small, but bombers actually play relatively similar forward line to us with daniher, hooker, fantasia and then a whole lotta smalls rotating in / out, so o mac might get a guernsey...but honestly who knows when melksham keeps holding his spot week in week out

B: Jetta - T Mac - O Mac
HB: Hunt - Frost - Hibberd
C: Salem - Jones - Vince
HF: ANB - Hogan - Stretch
F: Pedersen - Garlett - JKH
Foll: Watts - Oliver - Viney
I/C: Lewis - Tyson - Bugg - Harmes
Emerg: Trengove - Hannan - Kennedy

Edited April 24, 2017 by DemonAndrew

[Phadraig 760]

Oscar in and Frost to the ruck

[titan_uranus 22,658]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

I think they'll try and minimise changes. Still:

Need to cover KPF: Weideman or Pedersen. Hard to see who else it could be. Unless Frost gets another run forward, and we bring Oscar back in. Vandenberg and Smith both out are hurting us here.

Need to cover ruck: Pedersen or King. Also see above (Frost to ruck, Oscar back).

Lewis in: One of the HB out. Jetta or Melsham, but depends on other injuries, as Lewis could cover Viney or Petracca.

With those enforced changes, I don't know that JKH won't get to fight another day. If he goes out the only real like-for-like replacement would be Kennedy. Thought JKH improved in the second half as he got up to speed, managed to lay 7 tackles and take a few marks.

I wouldn't assume that Bugg automatically gets a call-up.

Horrendous call, bing. Absolutely horrendous.

If you're looking for someone to drop for Lewis, I could name about 18 players who go before Jetta.

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm certainly not saying Pedersen is going to dominate in the ruck, far from it. However, to be fair to him he's much fitter this year than in previous so if he's ever going to improve, this will be the year.

The issue with King is he's had, what, one VFL game since coming off a knee reconstruction. If we didn't have the injuries we wouldn't be considering him being selected for weeks, if not months. I don't like the thought of skipping his development just to stick him in the side because we're not confident in Pedersen (or Frost, or OMac, or someone else) when it could do more damage to a body that probably just isn't ready for AFL.

I'm only interested in beating Essendon ... lose to the Bombers and our season could be shot. 

I'm also quite convinced that many here don't rate ruck work or taps to advantage.  All this talk of not needing a proper ruckman is utter nonsense. 

We've just found out the hard way with 3 consecutive losses largely brought about by not having a decent ruckman in operation (Sandilands slaughtered Spencer in the ruck last week)

How much proof needs to be offered?

Pedersen & Watts sharing the ruck duties won't work.  Talk of throwing T-Mac, Frost or suchlike into the ruck won't work either - we'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul regardless.

[Boots and all 896]

29 minutes ago, Macca said:

How are you so sure?

Pedersen & Watts will get slaughtered and if you believe that we're good enough to rove to Essendon's 50 - 60+ taps, you're dreaming.

Has Pedersen become a top-liner all of a sudden? I've never seen the bloke play 1 top game (ever) and he's as bad in the ruck as what Watts is. 

We go in with a Pedersen/Watts combo and we'll get smashed in the ruck and in the clearances.  And we'll lose the game.

I agree, bring in a ruck to play the bulk of the ruck to maximise JW time in the forward line, where he should be.

[Go the Biff 3,177]

8 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

, and melksham has got to be dropped after another tackle-free performance...

I'm no Melksham fan - never wanted him in the first place & am often looking for negatives in his game - but I thought he put his head over the ball and his body on the line tonight. The no tackle stat surprises me. I thought he cracked in.

[titan_uranus 22,658]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'm only interested in beating Essendon ... lose to the Bombers and our season could be shot. 

I'm also quite convinced that many here don't rate ruck work or taps to advantage.  All this talk of not needing a proper ruckman is utter nonsense. 

We've just found out the hard way with 3 consecutive losses largely brought about by not having a decent ruckman in operation (Sandilands slaughtered Spencer in the ruck last week)

How much proof needs to be offered?

Pedersen & Watts sharing the ruck duties won't work.  Talk of throwing T-Mac, Frost or suchlike into the ruck won't work either - we'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul regardless.

I agree with most of this, although you're doing that thing where you start going all "I'm smarter than everyone else" which you tend to do when you get into debates.

My issue is that I don't believe MItch King is going to do any better than Pedersen, or Frost, or anyone else, because he's just not ready for AFL football right now and our lack of other ruckmen doesn't change that.

I agree that ruckwork is important and I agree that Pedersen/Frost/Watts are not good options, but you can't definitively say "Pedersen won't work" and then in the same breath say that we can't argue King won't work because we haven't seen him. We haven't seen the 2017 version of Pedersen try being first ruck so we equally can't say he won't work. 

[Macca 16,173]

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Because he is a skinny 200cm 95kg beanpole who has had 12 months off and rucked against a country footballer standard ruckman on Saturday night. 

He would then come up against Matthew Luenburger who is no slouch at all. He would blow up at half time and struggle to barely raise a gallop.

Don't care how bad we are struggling with rucks, You do not throw a poor kid like that to the slaughter house.

Well, if we go with Pedersen & Watts in the ruck and it fails miserably, what then?  We'll be 2 & 4 and staring down the barrel.

I also highly doubt that Goodwin will be happy to go in with a Pedersen & Watts combo.  He'll know that it's high risk.

[P-man 13,239]

Almost felt sorry for JKH. Complete mare on the back of which he has to go.

O Mac is a somewhat reluctant in allowing Frost to share ruck duties with Pedo who comes in for Smith.

Bugg's performance almost demands selection. Someone in that kind of form needs to be playing.

In: Pedersen, O Mac, Bugg, Lewis

Out: Smith, Spencer, JKH, Melksham

 

 

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

I agree with most of this, although you're doing that thing where you start going all "I'm smarter than everyone else" which you tend to do when you get into debates.

If anything, that's what you're known for ... belittling other posters on a constant basis.

Take a good look in the mirror and grow up