POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 4

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Obviously we lost for a number of reasons and it's probably unfair to highlight one or two players, but I'm going to do it anyway. 

Right at the end, we were in a dominant position.  We were attacking, Freo were tired and we were only three points down.  All it needed was a little composure and patience to work the ball around and find a target who was in a position to kick that last goal and we were there.  So what happened? 

1. Bloody Bernie Vince breaks out of a pack and kicks a blind long-bomb for an uncontested mark to their spare defender.

2. James Harmes decides he's going to be a hero and kick a goal from 60+ rather than take the easy lateral kick to the man in space. 

Now I know that there were any number of issues leading us to this point, but right then we had a chance to win the game, and these two lacked the composure and common sense to do the right thing and it cost us the win.  I really hope they get called on it during the review process, especially Harmes. 

[Roger Mellie 4,103]

Issue for me was in the midfield - Tyson, Viney, Jones. A mix of poor form and/or bad days.

Viney's been ordinary to date, but IIRC, this happened last year, so I hope it's not a (too early) captaincy thing and he'll come good. I thought Tyson was just plain awful - whatever the stats say! When the chips were down there was no pressure from him and howlers. When we were doing OK there wasn't much pressure from him and howlers. I'm hoping Jones just had an off day. Spencer was terrific for his first senior game in over a year.

Weideman isn't offering much and while I get that he will learn more playing in the 1's, he will also learn to loose confidence, so it would make sense to take the pressure off for a while. 

Happy to let Hannan find his feet and IMO wasn't the worst by a long shot.

Melksham, T Mac and Vince ordinary, but I would cast eyes back to the midfield.

Nibbler good with some horrendous disposal

[gregdemon 624]

54 minutes ago, A F said:

I wanted to punch something on the way out of the ground. I was that frustrated.

I swear I'm one of the only supporters in the MCC who actually uses their voice. It's supposed to be a home game with 28,000 (mostly) Melbourne supporters and it sounded like a library for the majority of the game. I know we've had some lean years, but I would have thought we'd be a lot louder these days.

well said  I felt that frustration walking out as well

[Deemented Are Go! 3,684]

After thorough reflection I have two points: 

- easily the worst part of today's loss was letting that smarmy, pasty, greasy, moustachioed [censored] McCarthy kick the winning goal. Or 'sea otter' (previous poster I can't recall but spot on description) 

- whoever posted 'this is a percentage booster' (again can't recall poster and damned if I'll re-read the thread) early in the game day thread- this is in you [censored]. 

 

Ps. We're 2-2 after four rounds. Still early days peeps. 

[gregdemon 624]

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Kudos to Jake Spencer!

He more than did his job today.  Was competitive.  Took important marks.  Kicked 2 goals.  One of our most consistent and best today.  No Max was not the reason we lost.  Loved the way the players got around Jake when he kicked his goal. 

That game would be a real confidence boost for him.  If he does no more than today he will be an asset for us.

Yep Spencer was good  Good on him

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

12 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

 

As to the Hogan/Lewis thing, whilst there's obviously no doubt their absence hurt us, we should have won both games we played without them. We did more than enough today to win the game and, whilst clearly it might have been more of a certainty or easier with them, we should have been 6+ goals up at half time and we should have held onto our lead in the fourth.

The point is we didn't win either game, would almost certainly have won today and arguably last week with them. I'm talking what happened, not what should have happened. 

I'm a believer in having ball winners in your team. Vince got it regularly and made a couple of errors. Melksham and Jetta didn't get it. I reckon that really hurts, more than Vince's errors. 

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

 

 

3mBrett Anderson‏ @BAndersonSEN

Riewoldt; Cripps & Murphy; Selwood & Dangerfield; and now Fyfe, Neale, Sandilands & Mundy. Opposition stars having big impact vs. Melbourne.

[deelete my account 1,194]

1. Apparently Weideman had a big corkie and ran around with a mild limp? Why wasn't he on the bench for the 2nd half? I thought resting Spencer in the goal square when he wasn't rucking would've been the most ideal thing to do in the second half, and sit Weideman on the bench for the rest of the match. Even Harmes would have made a far more formidable full forward with his leap in a contested mark. 

2. There was a 5 minute patch in the last quarter when Hunt went off and the momentum shifted back to Freo with a Melksham error

3. Viney tried to cheat by holding Fyfe and disabling him in that last ruck contest and gave away a holding the man free kick, i thought the loss was deserved after that kind of effort. Try and beat Fyfe at the ball next time.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Dee Dee 1,117]

13 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

 

Cale Morton is stiff....... He would offer more than Dean Kent.

Kent was OK, better than most. At least he showed some aggression. Bernie Vince was the problem.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Imagine what could have been if Harmes had kicked it to Jetta....

[bing181 9,328]

6 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Agree we stuffed up at selection.

We did not lose today because of selections. We lost because we let them get a run on, especially their mids, in one poor quarter. Perhaps we got ahead of ourselves. For all the bitching about Weideman and even the forward line, we still managed to kick a winning score - 15:14. But we let Mundy and Neale get 7 goals between them. That's where we lost it.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,684]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

 

3mBrett Anderson‏ @BAndersonSEN

Riewoldt; Cripps & Murphy; Selwood & Dangerfield; and now Fyfe, Neale, Sandilands & Mundy. Opposition stars having big impact vs. Melbourne.

What good is this???!! 

Get out

[dino rover 714]

There is no talk here about the opposition

We weren't playing f@ckin witches hats

Sandy fyfe neal hill and McCarthy (?) There is some class there and we didnt couldnt match it

For all our supposed midfield strength we only fought to at best a draw -our defense was better for frost but vince and melksham are mostly ballast

Trac is quality but not quantity and some butchery

Agree on weed a boy on a mans mission

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

 

 

3mBrett Anderson‏ @BAndersonSEN

Riewoldt; Cripps & Murphy; Selwood & Dangerfield; and now Fyfe, Neale, Sandilands & Mundy. Opposition stars having big impact vs. Melbourne.

That just says to me that these teams need their stars to fire for them to get anywhere near us.  Shut them down and we win.

Well, that's how I choose to look at it anyway...

[Adam The God 30,421]

1 hour ago, Goffer said:

2-2 means finals will be difficult, if Richmond win impossible. Dockers are better than they've been given credit for but we should have buried thte game. Inexcusable 

 

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

He has gone so offensive, he has thrown the defensive aspects out the window.

 

1 hour ago, brendan said:

Might as well forget finals(for now) 1 week at a time if we can't beat the tigers then I would say it makes it too hard, how we lost that game I will never 

I think this is all rubbish and far too early to call. When we do get momentum as a team, we could be anything this season. We still don't know how to win. When we start to learn that, I think we'll push hard for the top 8 - even if we lose to Richmond next week.

1 hour ago, Dockett 32 said:

Lost at selection 2 weeks in a row.

Weiderman has cost us twice. Forward coach under extreme pressure . Simply ridiculous selection. Disgraceful. Weiderman is gentle.

Hannan no where near it.

I worry about Jones and Viney and whilst the forwards were flogged our on ballers were woeful and couldn't get it to them.

Midfield except Oliver slow, very slow and gone backwards. B grade midfield. 

They will drop Tyson but it was Jones and Viney who were the problem.

Did you watch the game Dockett? Hannan wasn't brilliant, but he started the game with 3 or 4 possessions in the 5 minutes. A lot of his chasing, along with Jeffy, was key to a couple of goals in the fourth and second. He's still inexperienced, but I reckon he'll be alright in time. Had a couple of moments today that reeked of inexperience, but he was near it.

Tyson won't get dropped after close to 30 touches (4th best on ground according to the radio). You don't get dropped after games like that. If a player is getting the ball that much, you work on trying to get him to become more effective with those touches. I'd start by insisting he takes the first option and ensuring he concentrates with those short mid kicks he often misses.

As for Viney, I thought he was ordinary and struggled again, but he's clearly carrying and then injury and I think therefore they're sacrificing his offensive game in favour of his defensive game. It's also a great opportunity for him to learn a little more defensive running.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

There was still 3 minutes left. They tried to chip around the backline with 2.30 left. Too long to go into your shells.

Agreed. I think it was the first time in four matches where we played safe footy for the majority of a match. The first three weeks we played fearless footy for the majority of the game, but today we shot ourselves in the foot and weren't prepared to spread hard enough and take the riskier option.

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

Teams that want to play finals should not be gifting games to kids. 

To be fair, we're younger than Freo...

1 hour ago, Abe said:

Selections. 

Weideman 4 touches and totally out of form last week and still selected this week was outmarked 13 times today. Smith or pederson would have been better. 

as an example. 

Is the captaincy having an impact on jack Viney form??

its round four and worrying patterns are emerging regarding our defence

I think our defence is a work in progress and we've tweaked it over the summer to tighten it up a bit, but I think there'll be teething problems for the first half of the year, if not for the whole year. It's this defence that'll get us a flag in the next 4-5 years, so I'm keen to see how they continue to adjust and tweak. I think it's a bit personnel at the moment. There's not much you can do if Tom McDonald continually drops uncontested marks and Bernie Vince turns it over with little dink kicks. They are two leaders and our biggest strugglers down there at the moment.

I don't think it's as bad as it seems. I think our midfield will win its fair share most weeks. We just have to make sure our mids and forwards make the most of their opportunities in front of goal. It must be said again, our goal kicking cost us two weeks in a row.

1 hour ago, Forest Demon said:

I'm as gutted as anyone, but just to keep some perspective, we have played some very good footy this year, with some very good players out of the side.

We lost this game in one quarter today, we threw the win away last week against a top 4 side. 

Doesn't excuse it, but just a reminder that it is an even comp and we are right in the mix if we can keep it all together and get that consistency.

Nice post.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Tom McDonald as a defender today. Was he playing in protest at his brother's dropping? What a mug of a game.

Melbourne Comedy Festival on this week is it?

[Redleg 41,469]

44 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

You make it sound so easy. Not much of that sounds like coaching sounds on the field talk and between the ears and in the heart.

No it's not easy, but it's what good coaches teach over summer and it's what good leaders tell players during games and it's what good players do. 

[Adam The God 30,421]

7 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Melbourne Comedy Festival on this week is it?

As a tongue in cheek post, I'd have to say the Comedy Festival is on this week.

https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2017

[DeeZee 7,445]

Once our young side learns to play four Quarters,we will win more than we lose.

Also getting close to our best team on the park will help. Lewis, Hogan , Gawn , Hibberd, Joel Smith and we win the close ones.

[Redleg 41,469]

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

Melbourne Comedy Festival on this week is it?

Well to be honest I didn't find the 5 or so straight forward marks he dropped funny, did you?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That just says to me that these teams need their stars to fire for them to get anywhere near us.  Shut them down and we win.

Well, that's how I choose to look at it anyway...

Not sure what he is getting at, those players play well most weeks against most teams, that's why they are the stars of the game.

[olisik 4,060]

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

 

3mBrett Anderson‏ @BAndersonSEN

Riewoldt; Cripps & Murphy; Selwood & Dangerfield; and now Fyfe, Neale, Sandilands & Mundy. Opposition stars having big impact vs. Melbourne.

Shows our midfield has no defensive game. Freos mids kicked half of their goals today.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

10 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

1. Apparently Weideman had a big corkie and ran around with a mild limp? Why wasn't he on the bench for the 2nd half? I thought resting Spencer in the goal square when he wasn't rucking would've been the most ideal thing to do in the second half, and sit Weideman on the bench for the rest of the match. Even Harmes would have made a far more formidable full forward with his leap in a contested mark. 

2. There was a 5 minute patch in the last quarter when Hunt went off and the momentum shifted back to Freo with a Melksham error

3. Viney tried to cheat by holding Fyfe and disabling him in that last ruck contest and gave away a holding the man free kick, i thought the loss was deserved after that kind of effort. Try and beat Fyfe at the ball next time.

 

Thought it was Tyson. Not sure.

[Redleg 41,469]

1 minute ago, DominatrixTyson said:

I thought Viney's hold on Fyfe was disgraceful in the that last rucking contest that gave away a free kick and gifted them a forward entry. Trying to beat a team with those kind of disabling tactics is not what footy is about. Beat him at the ball next time Viney!

Actually it was Tyson and it was a very soft free for a slight touch on Fyfe. Jones is scragged far worse most games including today without that reward. 

[Forest Demon 4,681]

1 minute ago, olisik said:

Shows our midfield has no defensive game. Freos mids kicked half of their goals today.

Neale maybe, but Mundy was playing forward for all his goals.