JLT Round 4, Thursday 9th March - West Coast at Subiaco

[DeeSpencer 25,497]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

We need a more flexible game plan...running a basic zone when Hurn is kicking in is a recipe for disaster.

He shredded our defence every time he kicked in.

If it aint working...fix it.

 

I hope that was just plan A for defending kick ins and we have plans B + C in the bank for the real stuff. Agree it was a disaster. The saints are one of the best kick in teams in the comp so we'll soon know the answer.

[rjay 24,889]

I will go against the tide of opinion here but it will be a mistake to take Spencer in to round 1...

He kicked a few goals but did little else.

He got caught in between a bit and offered very little pressure from what i could see on camera & made it easy for them to move the ball from defence.

[Steve Lattimer 29]

The great thing is last year we had maybe 7 players in the starting team that didn't have the skills to execute the game plan.

Today we probably had 4 that can't and I can clearly identify 6 goals where they provided West Coast an easy opportunity where they did score.

[rjay 24,889]

8 minutes ago, rjay said:

We need a more flexible game plan...running a basic zone when Hurn is kicking in is a recipe for disaster.

He shredded our defence every time he kicked in.

If it aint working...fix it.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Steve Lattimer said:

Game plan wasn't the issue.

Poor skills from players that don't have the skills to execute.

Not saying it was on the whole, just talking about one issue here 'Steve' and the game plan is the problem.

[BAMF 4,305]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

Not saying it was on the whole, just talking about one issue here 'Steve' and the game plan is the problem.

We haven't quite nailed it yet and our disposal needs to be tidied up.

We are going to see a lot of easy goals kicked on us again this year.

[rjay 24,889]

10 minutes ago, Night Crawler said:

We haven't quite nailed it yet and our disposal needs to be tidied up.

We are going to see a lot of easy goals kicked on us again this year.

Setting up for an opposition kick in has nothing to do with our disposal (apart from us kicking a behind rather than a goal in some instances)...it's only their kick in's I'm talking about here. We need a better or more flexible plan, Hurn shredded us.

Edited March 9, 2017 by rjay

[McQueen 17,864]

1 hour ago, Deecisive said:

dumb cute plays

 

I read this twice

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

I'll take others word that Weed is a player for the future based on what he has shown at VFL level, but for pretty much all of the preseason comp he has given us less than Chris Dawes did last season.

Given he hasn't got a game at top level yet this year I'm guessing Pedo isn't a realistic Rd 1 option.  Based on output during preseason, I'd play Pencil as the additional tall option ahead of Weed.

[McQueen 17,864]

Even though it was a practice match, I'll rate this as a very ordinary performance by the team with the only exception being Oliver and to a lesser degree, Jones.

It was just an awful game to watch live. If we play a similar brand against St Kilda we'll get smashed.

The umpiring was plain shitful. The Eagles supporters carrying on like it was of H&A game importance was pathetic but not unexpected.

Josh Kennedy is a gun and will win the Coleman this year.

Weat Coast were at a level higher than us tonight however I don't think we played very well at all.

Both teams were only in second gear so it was hard to get a good read on the levels of skill and play. I will say that if this is a 'dress rehearsal' for Round 1, well, we've got some major ground to make up!

[bing181 9,196]

2 hours ago, Mr. White said:

I smell a fresh batch of home brewed disappointment about to be dished up in 2017. We're still a long way off. 

Yes, I know. Paul Roos, terrible match day coach.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

7 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

He walked at a normal pace and followed the rest of the team in 4 seconds later. You're talking [censored]. 

Apart from it being a waste of a game. 

He was probably sprinting, it just looked like he was walking.

[btdemon 482]

6 hours ago, Steve Lattimer said:

The great thing is last year we had maybe 7 players in the starting team that didn't have the skills to execute the game plan.

Today we probably had 4 that can't and I can clearly identify 6 goals where they provided West Coast an easy opportunity where they did score.

The problem is that one of them was Tyson. Turnover merchant. Two goals! He is meant to be one of our top ten players. Needs to learn how to kick with penetration and accuracy.

[parch_37 38]

Two problems with picking the 2 ruckman set up that I noticed far too many times last night 

1 - we kicked it long to the top of the goal square most times going forward last night. Made us extremely predictable and burnt some good leads by Watts, Hogan and Weid in doing so. 

2 - pressure coming out of our forward line was non existent. They ran it out with ease. Early in the game when Spencer was on the bench we locked it in for some time and had a few scoring opportunities. This may also be helped by getting Vanderbilt, Kent and Jeff back. 

 

I still don't think we can go in with 2 rucks against STK and at Etihad I'd rather play Hogan, Watts and Trac as our three marking options and leave out both Weid and Spencer. 

 

Garlo played well too I thought! Took the game on and skills were decent when he did get it 

[Lucifers Hero 39,612]

We have not recruited for skill!  So surprise, surprise we have skill issues!

For four years the recruiting policy has been 'competitive' players.  One I totally support and was an absolutely essential policy for a team that played 'bruise free'. 

So, we don't have enough silky skills of some other teams (exceptions, Salem, Watts and Lewis).  There is a big gap to the next level of skill.  We have what we recruited; a team of competitive players.  Hawthorn on the other hand have for over a decade, recruited on the basis of excellent kicking skills and made them 'unsociable' footballers. 

Our coaches try and overcome our lack of skill with game plan, structures and positioning but these work when the game is being played on your terms.  Last night we saw our lack of skills exposed when the game is played on the opposition's terms.

Tbh, I can live with the poor disposal especially under pressure.  But something seriously lacking is decision making skills and football nouse which can't be easily taught.  (Noteworthy exceptions, again are Salem, Watts, Lewis).  Turnovers are more often the result of poor decisions rather than poor disposal skills.  Not sure what the answer is but sadly, our skills problem will continue.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[rjay 24,889]

7 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

But something seriously lacking is decision making skills and football nouse which can't be easily taught.  (Noteworthy exceptions, again are Salem, Watts, Lewis)

I would add Oliver to this list...probably our best decision maker & uses the ball well.

[Gator 17,306]

The sun in the eyes didn't help in the first.  Naturally, it wasn't an issue in the second. 

This time last year West Coast were favourites for the flag.  They'll be good this year. 

This game will be great for the coach/players to review.  Despite most of our good players being underwhelming our gameplan held up.  It's rock solid and will be the foundation for many wins in 2017.

We're still an improving side, so it's unsurprising there were mistakes in a practice match.

Notwithstanding his 3 goals I don't like the two ruck policy and Gawn is the poorer for it.  It robs us of run and diminishes Gawn's role.  I wouldn't play Spencer round 1.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

47 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

We have not recruited for skill!  So surprise, surprise we have skill issues!

Perhaps I'm giving the team the benefit of the doubt, but I'm putting it down to an off night and playing on a dodgy surface.  Not to mention the last quarter where the dew set in and players were fumbling left, right and centre.

We made some bad errors last night, and we still need to get better under intense pressure, but I don't think on the whole our skill level will be that bad this year.  It was a tough night in Perth in hot, slippery conditions, and I think we'll handle things far better on Etihad.

[P-man 13,366]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

We have not recruited for skill!  So surprise, surprise we have skill issues!

For four years the recruiting policy has been 'competitive' players.  One I totally support and was an absolutely essential policy for a team that played 'bruise free'. 

So, we don't have enough silky skills of some other teams (exceptions, Salem, Watts and Lewis).  There is a big gap to the next level of skill.  We have what we recruited; a team of competitive players.  Hawthorn on the other hand have for over a decade, recruited on the basis of excellent kicking skills and made them 'unsociable' footballers. 

Our coaches try and overcome our lack of skill with game plan, structures and positioning but these work when the game is being played on your terms.  Last night we saw our lack of skills exposed when the game is played on the opposition's terms.

Tbh, I can live with the poor disposal especially under pressure.  But something seriously lacking is decision making skills and football nouse which can't be easily taught.  (Noteworthy exceptions, again are Salem, Watts, Lewis).  Turnovers are more often the result of poor decisions rather than poor disposal skills.  Not sure what the answer is but sadly, our skills problem will continue.

Overreaction for mine. The skill level was pretty damn good against the Dogs. Carlton gave a false read but was also decent. Certainly the Eagles looked a class above but overall the conditions weren't helping either side.

Not sure why Salem, Watts and Lewis are the only ones singled out. Jones is an excellent decisionmaker and executer more often than not. Oliver looks to be the complete package. It's within the likes of Brayshaw and Petracca to improve. They are hardly hacks.

The skills in patches were undoubtedly poor but we are capable of better. Many opportunities went begging. On another day they would've been taken.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

I think we played to cute in the third and screwd up our chances in the forward line to put presser on the scoreboard. All in all it was a good pre season test for the boys against a team who will be playing finals this year.

Mark my words, West Coast will play in the grand final this year if not get very close to it. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by ILLDieADemon

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Good:

• It was only a practice game
• A much needed reality check, especially for a player like Petracca
• Oliver
• Hunt
• It made us realise how badly we need good small forwards, injuries have hurt us badly in this area
• It made us realise how badly we need Frost
• It made us (maybe not Goodwin) realise how much we need Jetta
• It made us realise how much we need Hibberd
• The Spencer experiment continues

Bad:

• Leaking easy goals out the back, St Kilda would have been loving it
• Our key defenders were exposed
• Tyson's decision making
• Our depth can't be relied upon
• Kicking skills, even Lewis was terrible at times
• Vince needs to be played in the middle, I still think he should be a tagger that can get his own ball and Sam Mitchell would have been the perfect match-up
• Taking Trengove all the way to Perth and not playing him while Harmes and Tyson struggled
• Brayshaw still doesn't seem to have a position
• This effort by Oscar McDonald
• Weideman is not quite ready, Pedersen should have had at least one JLT game (assuming he is fit)

[picket fence 17,072]

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I seriously hate our defence at times. Especially when its lead by Tom and Oscar Mcdonald.. 

LOL Ive been saying this for a while, not up to it! Whilst TMac does take the odd good mark his disposal is Heart in mouth stuff and O Mac is seriously slow with no body awareness in contests. 

 

 

 

 

[picket fence 17,072]

11 hours ago, olisik said:

Thoughts on Trengove?

Cooked! hardly any game time and this is a concern. No disposals is this correct??

[Ethan Tremblay 30,826]

5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Cooked! hardly any game time and this is a concern. No disposals is this correct??

No game time. 

They wanted to stick with playing 22. I suppose Trenners was only going to get a run if a player came off injured.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[binman 42,691]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

Notwithstanding his 3 goals I don't like the two ruck policy and Gawn is the poorer for it.  It robs us of run and diminishes Gawn's role.  I wouldn't play Spencer round 1.

In modern speak this is called 'walking it back'. Well perhaps not walking it back but certainly softening your stance. IIRC correctly you were adamant Spencer would not be picked for round 1, that Goodwin was not that stupid.

That said i agree. I wouldn't play Spencer either, primarily because as you say it robs us of run, which will be critical against the saints. Dunn's lack of run (and inability to play zone) in the corresponding game last year killed us and effectively ended his career at the dees. 

For what it's worth i don't think he'll get picked. The JLT was important to keep him match ready and motivated because he is a critical piece of the puzzle if Gawn has to miss one or two matches (that's all i can countenance writing). They might go with the two ruck man is some games though, just not against the saints

 

[praha 11,236]

Demonland never disappoints.