Saviours

[daisycutter 29,756]

3 hours ago, binman said:

Hyperbolic? Really? I would have thought servicable is the opposite.

I thought he was a good average player for the dees but certailnly not a star. In other words serviceable. What word would you use?

As for the brownlow year he was dead lucky to win it in my opion. I have similar thoughts about woewodin.

whether he or woewy were a bit lucky to win a brownlow is quite irrelevant, the fact that they were in contention to win a brownlow is in itself a great effort and to just call it "serviceable at best" is demeaning and petty minded .......imo 

Edited December 27, 2016 by daisycutter

[Redleg 41,622]

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

Fyfe is the best player in the league imo so you'd obviously love to have him if he fit in the cap with no future issues 

He would be no saviour but would make us a much better team. 

If the rumours on Fyfe are true, he can go to the Saints or Blues, who have apparently offered him bundles of cash.

I don't want a "me man", I want us to keep building a great team.

We are on the way and I don't think this FD is going to derail that. 

PS. No guarantee that Fyfe will come back as good as he was, after the broken leg.

Dangerfield while obviously having a great year, has probably cost the Cats a few players, because of the salary cap and I wonder if that will hurt the team fabric.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

The only fair dinkum saviour I've seen come to a footy club and totally succeed was a guy we employed 3 seasons ago, although many could rightly claim his boss as one too. There may have not been a footy club at all without them. 

We now have a very strong management team, we are improving financially and have a strong coaching team. 

On field Hogan, Gawn, Petracca, Brayshaw, McDonald, Watts, Viney, Hunt, Salem and Oliver could all claim to be realistic chances at All Australian jumpers over the next few years. 

If a Fyffe/Dangerfield/Tom Lynch type choose to come play with us that would be very nice but we don't need saving anymore do we.

 

[McQueen 17,867]

1 hour ago, fndee said:

The only fair dinkum saviour I've seen come to a footy club and totally succeed was a guy we employed 3 seasons ago, although many could rightly claim his boss as one too. There may have not been a footy club at all without them. 

We now have a very strong management team, we are improving financially and have a strong coaching team. 

On field Hogan, Gawn, Petracca, Brayshaw, McDonald, Watts, Viney, Hunt, Salem and Oliver could all claim to be realistic chances at All Australian jumpers over the next few years. 

If a Fyffe/Dangerfield/Tom Lynch type choose to come play with us that would be very nice but we don't need saving anymore do we.

 

Fnoath.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

5 hours ago, Redleg said:

If the rumours on Fyfe are true, he can go to the Saints or Blues, who have apparently offered him bundles of cash.

I don't want a "me man", I want us to keep building a great team.

We are on the way and I don't think this FD is going to derail that. 

PS. No guarantee that Fyfe will come back as good as he was, after the broken leg.

Dangerfield while obviously having a great year, has probably cost the Cats a few players, because of the salary cap and I wonder if that will hurt the team fabric.

They only have next season to win a flag after that they  are in real trouble, they have given away a lot for him,  in draft picks and letting go young players

 

2 hours ago, McQueen said:

Fnoath.

inwutab

[binman 43,893]

7 hours ago, daisycutter said:

whether he or woewy were a bit lucky to win a brownlow is quite irrelevant, the fact that they were in contention to win a brownlow is in itself a great effort and to just call it "serviceable at best" is demeaning and petty minded .......imo 

Huh? I said he was serviceable over his career at Melbourne. I didn't mention the Brownlow until you mentioned it as evidence he was more than serviceable.

In any case i mean no slight by saying he was serviceable at the dees. In fact i said very serviceable and said it in the context of defending him. He had a better career at the demons than many players - as should be the case given how much he was paid.

Again what word would you use to describe his career at the MFC? 

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by binman

[Whispering_Jack 30,738]

There are more considerations to take into account than whether a player is "the best player in the league" or even whether you can fit him in the cap at the time of recruitment. 

Let's take some case studies. Carlton got their man when they took Chris Judd from the Eagles but they had to give away a lot  and, several years down the track, Judd's gone, the Blues barely caused a ripple after he got there and the Eagles still have Kennedy kicking goals and Masten, while no champion is still a regular at the club.

The Swans got Buddy Franklin as a free agent and worked out a cute way to fit him into their salary cap. He's been great for them but no ceegar yet and there seems to be a fair amount of salary cap pressure at a club which was forced to give Tom Mitchell and a couple of others away and did no recruiting by way of trades this year.

Garry Junior was fantastic at the Suns until his injury problems began but did they put too many of their eggs in the basket? There are certainly problems up there retaining players as well.

The latest big name recruit to cross over was Patrick Dangerfield. At this stage the deal to get him to Geelong appears not to be harming the club and, of course, he had a great season. I think it's arguable that the Cats might have again missed the finals without him this year - so far so good.

[daisycutter 29,756]

6 minutes ago, binman said:

Huh? I said he was serviceable over his career at Melbourne. I didn't mention the Brownlow until you mentioned it as evidence he was more than serviceable.

In any case i mean no slight by saying he was serviceable at the dees. In fact i said very serviceable and said it in the context of defending him. He had a better career at the demons than many players - as should be the case given how much he was paid.

Again what word would you use to describe his career at the MFC? 

 

"serviceable at best" was a reference to what redleg said who first brought this description up. i thought it unnecessarily harsh (specially the "at best")

i don't claim he had 5 (if you count his last short year) great years. His first 4 years were not all up to his 1984 year but overall i'd rate him better than just serviceable. He certainly wasn't a saviour, on that i agree. The expectations on him were certainly high despite his drop off of form at collingwood but that was a problem of those who thought they could just buy a saviour. getting a brownlow in '84 certainly gave us something to cheer about in a pretty miserable period.  

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Paul Roos was our saviour.

 

[monoccular 17,590]

I am absolutely certain that Col Sylvia was just one good preseason from being the greatest player of any team of all time , the ultimate savior ?

[picket fence 17,606]

On 12/26/2016 at 10:40 PM, binman said:

Credit where credir is due. Peter moore, whilst certainly no saviour was very servicable at the dees

Serviceable?? The guy won a Brownlow medal with us and lets face it, if both he and Templeton had been able to get fit in 1987, then we might have gone all the way to a premiership!

I thought Peter Moore was a very good player at Melbourne!

Edited December 27, 2016 by picket fence

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I genuinely think we have some players of Fyfe level talent on the list already and don't need to go after one as much as say the saints who I think are a little more light on top end talent.

i do however think we should have a look at a high quality free agent if the right option is there at the right price. 

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

Draft and development is the only way to build a dynasty. We have invested heavily in these areas and it is just about to pay off. If we can pick up some high end talent and maintain the payment balance in our group over the next few years then fine, but time and time again clubs have tried to pay for a superstar and ended up killing the goose that lays the golden egg. I don't think we want or need to do that. 

[boydie 655]

I wouldn't want to lose a Hogan/Petracca/Oliver in 2 years time because we overpaid a free agent thats cash grabbing.

Free agents should be players who leave their club and want to come to us for a fair value to fill a void/make the team better to achieve a flag.

If a free agent wants to come to us for x million over x years then they're not what we're after.

[monoccular 17,590]

5 hours ago, Abe said:

I genuinely think we have some players of Fyfe level talent on the list already and don't need to go after one as much as say the saints who I think are a little more light on top end talent.

i do however think we should have a look at a high quality free agent if the right option is there at the right price. 

Absolutely goes without saying but must be a price that doesn't disadvantage or [censored] off any our home grown talent. 

I (now) trust our list management team

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,410]

Fyfe and Danger possess some superstar qualities but kicking for goal isn't one of them. This game over the years has witnessed so many "saviours" that excel in so many areas of the game except for the one that arguably counts the most.

[Redleg 41,622]

21 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Fyfe and Danger possess some superstar qualities but kicking for goal isn't one of them. This game over the years has witnessed so many "saviours" that excel in so many areas of the game except for the one that arguably counts the most.

Fyfe is a heavyset player who has twice broken his leg.

I am not convinced he will be as good as he was.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,410]

Jordan Lewis may be considered too old to fall into the saviour category but he is still a gun and a natural leader (round 22 showed us again how easily our senior players can go missing). As many have already eluded to the fact of what a club has to give up in order to land a "saviour" we have the next best thing. My favourite thing about Lewis is his mental application and from that spawn many qualities a successful footballer needs.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,410]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Fyfe is a heavyset player who has twice broken his leg.

I am not convinced he will be as good as he was.

Agree, if I'm paying upwards of 800k and losing young talent I would be wanting the Bont in return.

[Redleg 41,622]

5 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Agree, if I'm paying upwards of 800k and losing young talent I would be wanting the Bont in return.

Heard yesterday via a Saints person, that they believed Fyfe was going to Carlton. Same as I was told by a Carlton person a few weeks ago.

Saints person said Lewis was considered a great get by us, by the other clubs.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Redleg

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Heard yesterday via a Saints person, that they believed Fyfe was going to Carlton. Same as I was told by a Carlton person a few weeks ago.

Saints person said Lewis was considered a great get by us, by the other clubs.

Aside from the cash I can anyone think of a reason why any player would elect to go there? Surely the Blues are a middle of the road side at best for the foreseeable future. If it happens you could see a Judd scenario where he makes them a bit better but not near enough to legitimately challenge. Can't see it happening, doesn't make sense to me.

[stuie 7,374]

[Redleg 41,622]

21 minutes ago, stuie said:

Agree.

[Deeman 1,513]

1 hour ago, fndee said:

Aside from the cash I can anyone think of a reason why any player would elect to go there? 

In that case, it's going to be the cash and a huge pile of it with an office desk at Visy.

[monoccular 17,590]

7 hours ago, Redleg said:

Heard yesterday via a Saints person, that they believed Fyfe was going to Carlton. Same as I was told by a Carlton person a few weeks ago.

Saints person said Lewis was considered a great get by us, by the other clubs.

Another saviour, like Chri$$$$$ Judd?