Richmond's fast-track list build

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yeah it's not like the demons don't share some of the issues Tiges have. We haven't gone to finals, and it's a big call to say we will this year, and while our list is young, plenty of the heavy lifting is still being done by aging players. Jones, Vince, and I don't care who thinks H, Dunn and Pedo aren't lifting their weight. Garlett is 27ish, Jetta is awesome but in his prime, not developing. I'm not saying we're in trouble, but these are all names that when the Petraccas, Brayshaws and Olivers of this world are starring, will need to be replaced. I'm as positive as anyone,  but the job is only half done. And if Jesse were to leave, then we'd still be needing to find talls. 

[Biffen 12,943]

Our strategy when Schwab and Bailey were around was to let GWS rape the draft then time our rock bottom just after that.

   We picked some terrible picks thanks to some inept staff that are now either at Carlton or are selling cladding door to door.

The tanking strategy was a good one but it ruined the existing seniors like McLean and Sylvia , and the sacking of Junior after his best year of footy compounded it.

We had no other option,no money , no chance of getting existing stars.

This was the environment Watts entered , along with Gawn ,Dunn and Jones.

We made mistakes far more damaging to the club than what Richmond has.Our rebuild was like a road trauma, Richmond are dying slowly from malnutrition.

Sydney on the other hand got C.O.L.A.

Richmond have themselves to blame.

Long may they suffer.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Richmond have still had better access to high quality draft picks than North Melbourne. Yet through free agency North Melbourne have been able to rebuild. Waite, Higgins, Dal Santo. It isn't what draft picks you get in the draft, it is what you do with those draft picks (who you use them on). Richmond have used quality, high end draft picks on speculative kids like Conca and Vlastuin. They went tall in 2008 and taken Vickery, overlooking a lot of midfield talent in Ziebell, Sidebottom, Hannebury, Beams and Shuey. So they didn't maximize the draft picks they've had, and now they want to whinge about the rebuild - like it isn't their fault they didn't have more time. This is the trouble with Richmond, nothing is ever their fault, they cannot accept criticism. Instead of blaming the short time frame for their rebuild, why don't they just fully take on the blame.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

3 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Jones, Vince, and I don't care who thinks H, Dunn and Pedo aren't lifting their weight. Garlett is 27ish, Jetta is awesome but in his prime, not developing. I'm not saying we're in trouble, but these are all names that when the Petraccas, Brayshaws and Olivers of this world are starring, will need to be replaced. I'm as positive as anyone,  but the job is only half done. And if Jesse were to leave, then we'd still be needing to find talls. 

Jones & Vince have been awesome and are still playing great footy, however i'm not too concerned about finding their replacements. Think they'll come from the very group you mentioned -Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem, Neal-Bullen, Stretch, Kennedy, Harmes etc who are all still only 22 or younger. Not to mention Prestia if we can land him, who we've been linked to for several years now.

Lumumba & Garland too i think we're already looking at internal options to move up the ranks. With the return of Melksham next year and the natural development of Hunt, Wagner & White there's options there.

Jetta's now into his 3rd consistent year of quality football and probably has another 4 or 5 left, so i'm not too concerned about any developing replacement for him. Dunn on the other hand we do need to look at going forward. Turns 29 this month and looks to be on the decline. Will Oscar or Frost be able to replace him to mind the gorillas or is this an area on our list that still needs work?

And even in the key forward department, we saw the club last year draft Weideman & Hulett, two promising young key forwards to ensure Jesse wasn't the only key we were pinning our hopes on (Hello Bulldogs & Tom Boyd).

The point is Roos, Taylor, Viney & Mahoney have built the list very nicely so that we have a good young core coming through. It's not just about the now. And this is what Richmond failed to do.

Edited May 2, 2016 by AngryAtCasey

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

4 hours ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Jones & Vince have been awesome and are still playing great footy, however i'm not too concerned about finding their replacements. Think they'll come from the very group you mentioned -Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem, Neal-Bullen, Stretch, Kennedy, Harmes etc who are all still only 22 or younger. Not to mention Prestia if we can land him, who we've been linked to for several years now.

Lumumba & Garland too i think we're already looking at internal options to move up the ranks. With the return of Melksham next year and the natural development of Hunt, Wagner & White there's options there.

Jetta's now into his 3rd consistent year of quality football and probably has another 4 or 5 left, so i'm not too concerned about any developing replacement for him. Dunn on the other hand we do need to look at going forward. Turns 29 this month and looks to be on the decline. Will Oscar or Frost be able to replace him to mind the gorillas or is this an area on our list that still needs work?

And even in the key forward department, we saw the club last year draft Weideman & Hulett, two promising young key forwards to ensure Jesse wasn't the only key we were pinning our hopes on (Hello Bulldogs & Tom Boyd).

The point is Roos, Taylor, Viney & Mahoney have built the list very nicely so that we have a good young core coming through. It's not just about the now. And this is what Richmond failed to do.

Yeah I follow what you're saying. And I'm as pleased as punch with the state of the list. But I think it's a mistake to look at us as suddenly in great shape and teams like dockers and tigers being miles off. In other words it's the old "things are never as good or bad as they seem." Tbh, I could care less about the Tigers list... But for demons I see the problem areas being kp defender (as you pointed out... That's why we were heavily linked to hooker)... Though only because Tmac and Dunn are the only proven quality. I disagree on Dunns decline. I'm still seeing him make freaking awesome decisions and kicking it 70 meters. I think last week or the week before he started the game by working through traffic somehow without actually moving from the spit he was standing. One of the weirdest fake outs I've seen. I used to hate him. Now I love the guy. Has three really good seasons left at least, and will stay for longer.

other weak areas is two more kp forwards, three is Jesse leaves. Weed could be one. I don't think, despite his footy this year, that jack plays 4 quarters there for his whole footy life. Too damaging elsewhere.

the last big weakness? Freaking skills. Milkshakes is gonna cop it so hard on this forum. You watch. We need the silky kicks. Think stretch, tracca (wow the shape of his kicks), Jack, Prestia, Salem... That's 5. But we need half the team to have delivery as a strength to win footy while clarkson is coaching. Historically the skilled guys leave the dees. We have to drop everything to keep them.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,803]

On 02/05/2016 at 5:06 PM, AngryAtCasey said:

That's a stark admission and a pretty damming one at that. Not only to the members but the senior players on your list.

To come out and say the last few years were spent building just to play finals with no real belief to challenging is nothing more then a waste of everyone's time. I mean blame the compromised drafts all you want, but you can still get creative. Melbourne's Pick 2 &20 (i think it was) for Tyson & Pick 9 as an example.

I'd be filthy as a Richmond supporter. Sure we stuffed 2008 - 2013 up, but the intentions were to build a list to contend, it was just done poorly.

The fact Richmond have just been setting their sights to be middle of the road for an extended period to keep fans happy is an indictment on the club IMO.

And an indictment on the Richmond fans.

On 02/05/2016 at 6:31 AM, KingDingAling said:

Richmond have still had better access to high quality draft picks than North Melbourne. Yet through free agency North Melbourne have been able to rebuild. Waite, Higgins, Dal Santo. It isn't what draft picks you get in the draft, it is what you do with those draft picks (who you use them on). Richmond have used quality, high end draft picks on speculative kids like Conca and Vlastuin. They went tall in 2008 and taken Vickery, overlooking a lot of midfield talent in Ziebell, Sidebottom, Hannebury, Beams and Shuey. So they didn't maximize the draft picks they've had, and now they want to whinge about the rebuild - like it isn't their fault they didn't have more time. This is the trouble with Richmond, nothing is ever their fault, they cannot accept criticism. Instead of blaming the short time frame for their rebuild, why don't they just fully take on the blame.

Fully agree with this point.

[jnrmac 20,096]

On 5/2/2016 at 10:45 PM, AdamFarr said:

A full rebuild should not take 8 years either...

Nah it should take 10 years like Melbourne....(and counting)

[KingDingAling 3,758]

21 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

And an indictment on the Richmond fans.

Fully agree with this point.

I don't how many times over the years (usually during crisis time) that I have heard the term "within our 4 walls". I think the statement originated under Hardwick. It is the get out of jail free card for the players (Riewoldt, Cotchin). I think it signifies that Richmond aren't willing to accept outside criticism. I think Hardwick, and Leppitch for that matter, are cut from the same cloth. They just see it their way, and neither are willing to accept their way could be the wrong way.

[Chook 15,013]

A full rebuild lasts as long as it takes for the best first year player at a club to play his last game at that club. Where that gets you depends on everything that has happened between that player's first game and his last.

So for us (Nathan Jones), our full rebuild started in Round 17 of 2006 and will probably last until the Preliminary Final of 2020.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Chook

[leucopogon 1,519]

I don't buy it, it's a revisionist view of their past based on the lack of finals wins and serious premiership challenges, they would have been all in on their mature age top up rebuild and seeing how they took apart contenders like freo and hawthorn last year they should have expected to make a better fist of things. Why he would come out in the media and say these things is quite bizarre really, and like others have said a real slap in the face to the list and the fans. Obviously they are going the old fashioned rebuild route now, why else say these things?

[Guest]

It just goes to show how journalists run with the foxes and hunt with the hounds.

Go back 3 years and you will read articles where Rohan Connolly states that there is no contest as between whose rebuild was better out of Richmond and Melbourne. Now these same numpties are saying how their rebuild was awful. 

[Chook 15,013]

11 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

It just goes to show how journalists run with the foxes and hunt with the hounds.

Go back 3 years and you will read articles where Rohan Connolly states that there is no contest as between whose rebuild was better out of Richmond and Melbourne. Now these same numpties are saying how their rebuild was awful. 

A team's rebuild is only as good as that team played the weekend before an article is written — or so the Media would have you believe.

[ignition. 1,466]

On 5/2/2016 at 2:17 PM, P-man said:

Never forget that it could always be worse. You could support the Tigers.

Football manager Dan Richardson has admitted on SEN that the latest rebuild was done in the knowledge that it likely wouldn't achieve the ultimate success, and was to appease the fans who they believed wouldn't cop a longer rebuild.

"We didn't think Richmond fans would accept an eight-year rebuild. We turned it around in four, which I think was a terrific achievement.

"We're paying a price in the sense that we knew that that mature-age talent would get us to a point but not take us to the next level, which was always going to be the hardest part.

"While it's been disappointing somewhat to not win a final, it's been a good achievement to play finals for three years in a row for the first time for 20 years for the club."

Simply amazing. Surely this would tip some supporters over the edge.

Article here: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-05-02/richmond-paying-the-price-for-recruiting-strategy-says-football-manager

 

Glad he's not with us.

 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

Cotchin was interviewed yesterday and he said he thinks the Tigers, at the present, are good enough to win a Grand Final. Is this guy nuts?

Edited May 24, 2016 by Ethan Tremblay

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

 Is this guy nuts?

Bat-[censored] crazy.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Bat-[censored] crazy.

Confirmed. Thought so. 

[davo 209]

27 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Cotchin was interviewed yesterday and he said he thinks the Tigers, at the present, are good enough to win a Grand Final. Is this guy nuts?

Trouble with Richmond is they make decisions to appease their rabid fans, irrational decisions for irrational dumb supporters, they won't win a flag until they do a proper 5-8 year rebuild, which means they'll never win another in our lifetime

[Little Richard 6,264]

44 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Cotchin was interviewed yesterday and he said he thinks the Tigers, at the present, are good enough to win a Grand Final. Is this guy nuts?

Clearly, but the average Richmond supporter has a certain kind of blind faith coupled with an IQ as high as Cotchin's jumper number, so they'll believe him.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,803]

51 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Cotchin was interviewed yesterday and he said he thinks the Tigers, at the present, are good enough to win a Grand Final. Is this guy nuts?

He's just playing to the audience. Given Richmond supporters seem to be a mix of bikies, psychos and the illiterate, he has to provide hope to the hopeless.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

"We finished 9th again...The mighty Tigers finished 9th again..."

[H_T 3,047]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Cotchin was interviewed yesterday and he said he thinks the Tigers, at the present, are good enough to win a Grand Final. Is this guy nuts?

Symptoms of concussion still present. Should stick with the helmet for some time yet.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I said to a Richmond supporting associate of mine that the best thing they could do would be to trade Martin.  He is an amazing talent, is a match winner, but is really not going to get Richmond to a Top 4 finish (wouldn't happened by now if he was going to).  I'm sure if they were to trade him to a West Coast/Adelaide type outfit - one that needs just one more top level midfielder to lock themselves in the Top 4 for the next few years, they will pay top dollar for him.  If Richmond were to get 2 first rounders, which I would argue would be a fair price, then they can look at getting some top young talent, similar to how we have played the draft/trade period over the past couple of seasons.

Richmond will not win a premiership with its current list, and Martin is one that can help them rebuild in a shorter amount of time.

That said, I don't care about Richmond, and I look forward to them continuing being our [censored].

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by billy2803
Another word for a female dog...

[Dees2014 2,377]

On 2 May 2016 at 5:38 PM, Fork 'em said:

Entertaining listening to Mick Malloy teeing off yesterday.

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/shows/hot-breakfast-eddie-mcguire/blog/2016/4/mick-molloy-richmond-need-to-get-rid-of-the-idiots/#ooid=5yeDM0MzE6pDIG1TLyg7RtqUbUrWBQvL

This is just another truism that whenever clubs lose to Melbourne they go into meltdown. This is yet another test that we have arrived: commentators and fans say "we were beaten by a better teams. Psychotically, we still have a long way to do with the football community. It has its advantages - they obviously crohically underestimate us. Long may it continue to allow us to sneak under their radar...

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Cotchin was interviewed yesterday and he said he thinks the Tigers, at the present, are good enough to win a Grand Final. Is this guy nuts?

Time for him to be drug tested. I suggest that they first test for LSD

[ManDee 7,153]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

He's just playing to the audience. Given Richmond supporters seem to be a mix of bikies, psychos and the illiterate, he has to provide hope to the hopeless.

Are you suggesting that my son is a psycho? (The throwback not the MFC supporter) Must order DNA tests.