Game Day 6/3/16

[Copuchas 763]

The thread's very entertaining and there's some great observations and analysis.  For mine though, a lot of it misses the key points which are: 1) the appetite for the contest / attack on the footy has improved out of sight and has been a feature both weeks; 2) The game plan has truly evolved and there's now more than a semblance of purpose in terms of inside 50's (both in terms of numbers and quality).   Most importantly, the defensive chip the ball around / go backwards element of our game has been eliminated.  This team will be a lot better to watch this year than they have been for a long time.  I think the attacks on skills might be a tad overdone and a lot of us have forgotten what footy's like on an open to the elements arena on a breezy day.  I expect they'll win at least 11 games, take some serious scalps and, with a modicum of luck, play finals.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,052]

14 minutes ago, Copuchas said:

The thread's very entertaining and there's some great observations and analysis.  For mine though, a lot of it misses the key points which are: 1) the appetite for the contest / attack on the footy has improved out of sight and has been a feature both weeks; 2) The game plan has truly evolved and there's now more than a semblance of purpose in terms of inside 50's (both in terms of numbers and quality).   Most importantly, the defensive chip the ball around / go backwards element of our game has been eliminated.  This team will be a lot better to watch this year than they have been for a long time.  I think the attacks on skills might be a tad overdone and a lot of us have forgotten what footy's like on an open to the elements arena on a breezy day.  I expect they'll win at least 11 games, take some serious scalps and, with a modicum of luck, play finals.

Plus Watts seems to have found his niche and is now making a serious contribution to the team. 

[chook fowler 19,458]

I think Watts' form has been the most exciting part of the preseason - big Maxxy excepted.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

15 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I think Watts' form has been the most exciting part of the preseason - big Maxxy excepted.

and clarry

[titan_uranus 25,018]

I lean more in the camp of those who don't think the game was a total disaster, but I have no idea why anyone would try to argue against the proposition that the Dogs' team was anything other than a second-rate VFL side.

They had, quite literally, their 10 best players not playing. It's not a question of experience or age, it's a question of quality and their best players weren't playing.

However, I don't believe that fact alone means the result of yesterday's game is necessarily a poor one. For one, as has been suggested, Goodwin/Roos/the coaches may have used the game to try out new tactics or strategies. Most clubs seem to use the final NAB game as their fully-fledged practice for Round 1 so it wouldn't surprise me at all if we rotated players even when they were winning match-ups, or held players back or something like that. I don't know, but it certainly wouldn't surprise.

18 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's a myth that we never won preseason matches. Just as there's a myth that a reasonably decent 7 win team from last season needs to win presesaon games this year to somehow change the culture.

Playing good football is the important goal and we failed miserably today.

The gulf in the age, experience and allegedly talent between the two teams today should've been a 10 goal win not a 10 point win.

It's no "myth" that this club needs to win matches. The winning vibe around the club is invaluable, even when it's practice matches. I'd certainly prefer wins to losses, no matter what style of win it is. That's not to say I want to see us playing bad football, but the winning feeling is important.

Edit: we also played great footy last week against a better side. Does yesterday's performance make that game disappear altogether?

5 hours ago, P-man said:

The question of whether it's okay to be unhappy or critical of a win seems to be a recurring issue on Demonland. It reached fever pitch after the win against Brisbane last season, and it's certainly raised its head again here.

At the risk of being a fence sitter, I think both sides to the argument have some merit. I can see how perceived negativity after a win when we are starved for wins could frustrate, and similarly I can see how merely being satisfied with the result against the "opposition on the day" can seem illogical. 

As a peace offering to both sides, I would reiterate PD's point that it is still only the pre-season. Maybe we could take a collective breath and save the heated debate for when the real stuff tstarts. Merely a suggestion.

As is often the case on Demonland, it's all black and white. You either loved yesterday's performance or you hated it.

You either think Tom McDonald is AA or shouldn't even be playing. Etc, etc.

It's all too rare on here for people to balance positives with negatives at the same time.

Edited March 7, 2016 by titan_uranus

[RalphiusMaximus 6,052]

I'm almost done watching the TV coverage.  Very interesting to pick up what I couldn't see at the ground. 

Oliver at 7.10 or so in the second quarter makes an amazing play.  Picks up the ball in the back pocket and nails a perfect 50m pass to Pedersen, who dropped it.  Oliver then followed up with a big climb and mark off the return kick and nails another pass out of defence. 

Hunt was actually better than I thought.  He didn't get much of it and didn't get into position to use his pace outside, but I've seen him doing a lot of defensive things that I didn't expect.  Lots of tackling, spoiling and generally being a pain for the opposing HFF. 

Our defence still looks poorly organised. 

[dee-luded 2,959]

8 hours ago, old dee said:

I was at a gathering yesterday that included a couple of Essendrug supporters.

They are going on the walk to the ground before round 2 game.

Honestly you could not talk to them they have swallowed all the EFC and Hird crap completely.

They firmly believe there is a conspiracy by everyone and anyone to get them.

They seemed incapable of answering WHY?

No one took anything wrong end of story.

After five minutes I gave up and a Pies supporter there whispered to me " Blind Faith"

 

I've a friend in St-Kilda I can crash at,  if I need to stop over in Melbourne on occasion.

 

he is an Essendrug supporter;  I asked him last time I was in town,  when hird was on the news,  what he thought about it all... same as your friend 'od'... hird apparently done nothing wrong & he's been setup ?????????????????????????????????

 

when it comes to the bummers,  it seems 'no sense no feeling',  the lights just seem to go dim.

 

 

[jnrmac 20,061]

Just watched it for the first time. 

Oliver is exciting and has the smarts.

Kennedy is goal hungry and needs to fix his disposal. Has a tank but is hard at it.

We still can't hit targets. Infuriating. I don't acceopt the wind excuse because the dogs could hit them.

Harmes did some nice things

The tackling was a quality above what we dished up last year. Very few dumb high tackles or in the back. The players are taking an extra spit second to assess before committing. I liked that a lot.

Garland isn't a smart footballer.

Gawn got a huge number of taps but very few effective. The sahrked him well. 

Watts was better but still has infuraiting paoses of commitment

Wagner looked a bit lost out there.

Garlett is all class.

We were handball happy out there and seemed to go back to our old ways. Maybe that was the plan into the wind... Seemed like a lot of backwards handball to me

Grimes was a lot better but is still way too slow with his decision making from a stoppage.

McDonald was woeful in the 1st but wasn''t too bad after that.

We went three up for marks so many times I lost count. The talk today wasn't good.

Liked Bugg's work. He's hard at it.

A wins a win.

 

[Seinfeld 40]

52 inside 50's to theirs 38 should have equated to a lot bigger win. Geelong had only had 48 inside 50's against Essendon reserves. 

The last two games have shown that we have definitely improved in moving and getting the ball into scoring potions which is something we have had a problem for many years.

 

[CBDees 3,167]

8 minutes ago, Seinfeld said:

52 inside 50's to theirs 38 should have equated to a lot bigger win. Geelong had only had 48 inside 50's against Essendon reserves. 

The last two games have shown that we have definitely improved in moving and getting the ball into scoring potions which is something we have had a problem for many years.

 

And when we have Hogan and Dawes in our forward structure our score will improve markedly!

[Mydee 288]

8 hours ago, P-man said:

The question of whether it's okay to be unhappy or critical of a win seems to be a recurring issue on Demonland. It reached fever pitch after the win against Brisbane last season, and it's certainly raised its head again here.

At the risk of being a fence sitter, I think both sides to the argument have some merit. I can see how perceived negativity after a win when we are starved for wins could frustrate, and similarly I can see how merely being satisfied with the result against the "opposition on the day" can seem illogical. 

As a peace offering to both sides, I would reiterate PD's point that it is still only the pre-season. Maybe we could take a collective breath and save the heated debate for when the real stuff tstarts. Merely a suggestion.

And a very good suggestion. It will be interesting to see who the preferred playing group are come the real season. We are really in the entree part of the season, tantalizing but not entirely satisfying 

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I wish hotel internet wasn't so awful so I could watch the replay and make up my own mind regarding the game. 

Can't even load the highlights videos

[AzzKikA 2,371]

16 hours ago, P-man said:

Worth a crack.

God loves a trier.

 

[nutbean 8,838]

9 hours ago, CBDees said:

And when we have Hogan and Dawes in our forward structure our score will improve markedly!

Even when not kicking goals, you cannot downplay how important in his short time that Hogan is for our forward structure.

And I understand we need better than Dawes but he was important for our structure also  - he ran to the right places and nearly every contest brought the ball to ground ( that's because he didn't mark it). Forgetting that Dawes body doesn't hold up, to me the difference between Pedersen and Dawes is Pedersen marks better but goes missing too much for mine. Dawes draws the ball more than Pedersen which is better for the likes of Hogan and the crumbers ( we do need better than either of them)

[rjay 24,924]

1 minute ago, nutbean said:

Even when not kicking goals, you cannot downplay how important in his short time that Hogan is for our forward structure.

And I understand we need better than Dawes but he was important for our structure also  - he ran to the right places and nearly every contest brought the ball to ground ( that's because he didn't mark it). Forgetting that Dawes body doesn't hold up, to me the difference between Pedersen and Dawes is Pedersen marks better but goes missing too much for mine. Dawes draws the ball more than Pedersen which is better for the likes of Hogan and the crumbers ( we do need better than either of them)

We can talk Dawes & Pedersen as much as we like and kid ourselves about what either offer, in truth not a lot. Opposition teams don't take a lot of notice and know that Hogan is the man.

Currently we are a 2/12 man forward line, Hogan, Garlett & Watts. Petracca should add a lot to our forward structure.

...but we really need Weideman to step up asap.

[Gator 17,342]

9 hours ago, Seinfeld said:

52 inside 50's to theirs 38 should have equated to a lot bigger win. Geelong had only had 48 inside 50's against Essendon reserves. 

The last two games have shown that we have definitely improved in moving and getting the ball into scoring potions which is something we have had a problem for many years.

 

It's a good point you make.  When one analyses all of the stats it's a game that should have been won by 40 points, but it wasn't reflected on the scoreboard.

[Gator 17,342]

9 hours ago, Seinfeld said:

52 inside 50's to theirs 38 should have equated to a lot bigger win. Geelong had only had 48 inside 50's against Essendon reserves. 

The last two games have shown that we have definitely improved in moving and getting the ball into scoring potions which is something we have had a problem for many years.

 

It's a good point you make.  When one analyses all of the stats it's a game that should have been won by 40 points, but it wasn't reflected on the scoreboard.

[beelzebub 23,370]

12 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I think Watts' form has been the most exciting part of the preseason - big Maxxy excepted.

Something Im glad I can finally do...enjoy watching  Watts play..  Hes getting on with it a bit. Its still no totally natural so he has lapses but as the old adage goes...fake it before you make it..... I hope he continues this effort.

That goal from the boundary was almost a super goal...( i thought it was pretty good anyway  )

[Gator 17,342]

15 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Terlich finished top five in our B&F once. 

Of the players listed, I have Boyd as past it, Stevens and hunter as generic mids who can be replaced by any of their other generic mids and Picken as probably being phased out if he can't do more than tag.  I rate Stringer, Bontempelli, Wallis, Wood, Dahlhaus and Murphy as being notably better then the others.  That is the core group who's absence was felt yesterday.  The rest?  As I said, they have a hoard of interchangeable mids/flankers who run and use the ball well.  Crameri I am ignoring as he's not an AFL player right now. 

I suspect Terlich never made the AA squad.

You've decided Boyd is "past it" even though he made the AA squad of 40 last year, which is something Nathan Jones has never done ?  I've decided that is an error on your part.

So I have a question for you.  Below I have listed the Dogs top 10 players, none of whom played on Sunday.  Where would the Dogs finish on the ladder if they didn't have these players for season 2016 ?  Unquestionably they'd finish bottom 3 and I suspect they'd be holding up the ladder.

Bontempelli, Stringer, Murphy, Wood, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Boyd, Dickson (50 goals), Morris, and Wallis.  Note: I left out Liberatore.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

16 hours ago, Redleg said:

At one stage of the game, Jetta was playing on Redpath and in another, Boyd. What was that all about?

 

15 hours ago, beelzebub said:

tanking

OK, but us or them?

[Grimes Times 1,278]

19 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Really?  Didn't realize.  Having said that I could tell the ball was holding up into the wind when Watts had his first shot at goal.

 

Sorry BB wasn't having a go at you nor sticking up for the Fox team just what I heard. The Boundary rider is at the ground but the commentators are in the studio calling off the TV.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

16 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

On top of a win the week before against Port, over in SA.  I don't care how we win, just win.  Going forward, a win for confidence, it cannot be disputed, is better than any loss.

If this was a game for 4 points I would agree, bank the 4 points and move on.

In the context of it being a practice game I think it's fair to look at more than just the final scores to have a look at how we played and how we played against the opposition in front of us.

Those of us saying it wasn't a good performance aren't the ones overreacting here - I don't think any of us are really getting too hung up on it. On the contrary it's those who refuse to acknowledge the poor performance who seem incapable of taking on board any critical analysis. Again, I was far more impressed with the game the week before against Port than this week against the Dogs. That is regardless of the outcome, simply looking at the style of play, the effort, attack and execution. As an example look at Dean Kent's game against Port compared to his game against the Dogs. That's just one example of many.

At the end of the day it won't mean anything in a couple of weeks but right now there was enough to be disappointed in the weekends game. Not angry or frustrated, just disappointed.

[binman 42,941]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

It's a good point you make.  When one analyses all of the stats it's a game that should have been won by 40 points, but it wasn't reflected on the scoreboard.

Indeed. In the last quarter we kicked 4.7. Several of those points were pretty easy misses including a shocker from Kennedy. Could (should?) have easily kicked 6 or 7.

Doggies on the other hand could barely get it forward. By the end of that quarter we were smashing them.

Edited March 7, 2016 by binman

[beelzebub 23,370]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If this was a game for 4 points I would agree, bank the 4 points and move on.

In the context of it being a practice game I think it's fair to look at more than just the final scores to have a look at how we played and how we played against the opposition in front of us.

Those of us saying it wasn't a good performance aren't the ones overreacting here - I don't think any of us are really getting too hung up on it. On the contrary it's those who refuse to acknowledge the poor performance who seem incapable of taking on board any critical analysis. Again, I was far more impressed with the game the week before against Port than this week against the Dogs. That is regardless of the outcome, simply looking at the style of play, the effort, attack and execution. As an example look at Dean Kent's game against Port compared to his game against the Dogs. That's just one example of many.

At the end of the day it won't mean anything in a couple of weeks but right now there was enough to be disappointed in the weekends game. Not angry or frustrated, just disappointed.

You know....you wont get far talking sense like that Doctor., but I agree and enjoyed reading it

The NAB is about deploying elements of your intended style and seeing what happens against real world  opposition. We won but by god we fluffed it a lot and in ways that  we shouldnt..

You can bet  the MFC FD brains trust are analysing the shlt out of these games, just as some of us are. Are THEY over-reacting ??

Ill be intrigued as to what revisions are employed agaisnt the Aints.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

On another note, I can't wait until we can add Hogan, Brayshaw and Petracca to this side. In fact I'm salivating over it, especially considering the form of Viney, Oliver and Gawn in the middle. Can't wait.