Saturday Talking Point: How far can we improve in 2016?

[Fat Tony 5,216]

We need to get a lift out of our outside midfielders to be a finals chance IMO. Players like Stretch, Watts, Kent and Salem have all shown glimpses but we need to see a full season.

[mo64 5,851]

The naysayers in the media have every reason to doubt us. Our end to last season was poor (pathetic losses to Essendon and Carlton), and masked somewhat by a meaningless final game win against GWS.

As far as our list goes, we haven't made any great acquisitions. Ben Ken maybe ok, Bugg isn't a game changer, and the draftees need time, unlike Brayshaw who was ready to go. We've lost Howe, who was best 22 despite what many on here think of him.

Structurally, we badly need help for Hogan/Garlett in the forward line, and there are no obvious solutions. They kicked over 40 goals each, and our next best was around 12. We can't pin our hopes on Petracca this year, given his injury history.

For us to improve in our win/loss column, all our midfielders need to fire. The kids like Brayshaw, Stretch, ANB, Harmes and AVB need to improve on their impressive efforts last year. Tyson needs to return to 2014 form, and Jones, Viney and Vince need to play at an A level. If Gawn remains fit, he could be our X Factor.

As GOTO mentioned, we have a tough draw, and we are simply not good enough to pencil any games in as an easy win.

 

[Pipefitter 2,149]

11 wins. This will be a similar year to 2010 except we are going to go on with it this time.

[junk 342]

dellusional demon 82,simple solution for the dees to be a success…….. change the name to leceister city !!!! then put a squillion dollars on them,win then buy Greece or Portugal or Iceland. More to a serious note we need WATTS or his future replacement (Hulett or new King) to have a breakout year.White needs to be a success ASAP,this will give us more versatility up front.Not sure if Pedo can hold down CHF.May have to consider Hogan at CHF much more reliable. Petracca and or Oliver need to make an impact.A back up ruckman who can play forward is a must. Pedo at 193 cm is a bit short for ruckwork. We should end up winning 10 matches which would put us in 10th or 11th position.Another good year of trade is required for us to be a regular finals side.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

9 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

It may seem strange, but we could actually win less games in 2016 than 2015 and be a better side, simply by being in games for longer.

 

If we can bridge the gap btw our best and our worst footy then we will have improved significantly as a side.

 

Like most, I think the #1 aim is to be in games to win them deep into the last quarter, rather than being blown away early on as has been the case for too many years.

Can't agree - we need to win more games this year than last year. Assuming an okay run with injuries, I think we will.

Dont think we'll make the eight - but I'm expecting a big improvement this year. And that HAS to translate into winning more games, not simply being a bit more competitive in games, and for longer. If we win 7 or less, I reckon that's a fail.

The stats count for us now. That is, if we're being fair dinkum about where this list/club is now headed.

 

 

[Deecisive 1,709]

To win more games we need to do the basics a whole lot better. We need to hit targets and stop turning over the ball. We need to tackle and apply pressure consistently and we need players who go hard at the ball whether we are winning or loosing badly.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,013]

To be on target we should be sniffing around just outside the eight.  9-11 range is ok.  If things really click we're a faint shot at finals, but I won't be holding my breath for that. 

[Middymalt 244]

12 wins and no floggings think we will be much improved and would like to see some 10 goal Victorys so I can sit back and enjoy the game instead of being on the edge of my seat.

[dee-luded 2,959]

6 hours ago, mo64 said:

The naysayers in the media have every reason to doubt us. Our end to last season was poor (pathetic losses to Essendon and Carlton), and masked somewhat by a meaningless final game win against GWS.

As far as our list goes, we haven't made any great acquisitions. Ben Ken maybe ok, Bugg isn't a game changer, and the draftees need time, unlike Brayshaw who was ready to go. We've lost Howe, who was best 22 despite what many on here think of him.

Structurally, we badly need help for Hogan/Garlett in the forward line, and there are no obvious solutions. They kicked over 40 goals each, and our next best was around 12. We can't pin our hopes on Petracca this year, given his injury history.

For us to improve in our win/loss column, all our midfielders need to fire. The kids like Brayshaw, Stretch, ANB, Harmes and AVB need to improve on their impressive efforts last year. Tyson needs to return to 2014 form, and Jones, Viney and Vince need to play at an A level. If Gawn remains fit, he could be our X Factor.

As GOTO mentioned, we have a tough draw, and we are simply not good enough to pencil any games in as an easy win.

 

Our big improvement initially IMO,  will come from our extra depth,  or rather having less baggage as a sea anchors.   Better disposal skills & better combativeness.   all in all,  less of those not up to it,  & much more physicality across the 22.... this will improve our poorer stats across the stats sheet & then faith & confidence grow as the players see the changes.

with this come the hunger to want more wins & momentum starts to fill the cracks.

we ready to start pushing forward.

 

# edit:  In future seasons,  I think our young talent will have matured,  & will propel us forward,,,   too soon this year for them to star,  just going on past clubs experiences.  We need a half a dozen kids starring to take us into September.

Edited February 13, 2016 by dee-luded

[DubDee 25,471]

I'm so torn on this season. We will certainly improve but nearly every other team will also improve. Anything could happen which is exciting in itself and we couldn't have said this in years gone by. We could win anything from 6 to 13 games IMO. 

the season is so short that it makes the afl so unpredictable. I have port and the pies 100% in the 8 as much as I hate to say that. I reckon the eight could change this year more than any other year. 

[P-man 13,366]

The draw is my main concern.

Comparatively speaking, the Saints have been kissed on the genitals with Essendon and Carlton twice, us at Etihad twice and a dream second half of the year. If we had the Saints' draw, I'd be a lot more confident about reaching 10 or more wins. As it stands we will need a lot of things to go right with improvement in youngsters, game plan evolution and of course injuries.

I do however think we'll be noticeably better than last year. Gawn alone having a consistent year putting it down the throat of our mids will make a difference.

Edited February 13, 2016 by P-man

[wretched.sylph 164]

Just a few thoughts...

 

I don't think we have a best22 anymore, it's more like a best32. "Depth" is not about having decent backup players; it's about changing the makeup of the 22 without weakening the team. How long has it been since we were able to do that? (lol&cry). We now have good "depth" across most of the ground. How many of us put JKH in our best22? He is and exciting young player who has made us leap to our feet and howl with delight. Who gets left out of the back 6? Is there room for Lamumba? It's been a long time since we had to consider these types of questions. We had a bad run with injuries last season, but if we are unlucky enough to suffer the same this season we are much better positioned to cover them.

 

We have also reached a level of developement, as a team, where we can really begin thinking about opponents' structures and game plans, rather than focusing strictly on our own (as Roos repeatedly stated over the past 2 seasons he was obliged to do).

 

Across the board our players are more flexible, able to play multiple roles and positions. Those who couldn't adapt have been delisted or traded away.

 

[The Third Eye 258]

Leaving aside the messenger, I want to know if people think Robbo has it right.

His point is that irrespective of the personnel, the improvement in the list, the greater depth and whether or not we have luck with injury, he believes we can't improve enough to make the eight because Rossy's game plan is far too negative.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,691]

I wouldn't be surprised if we only win 3-5 games.

As others have mentioned, our list has actually gotten worse with the departures of Howe and Cross. Kennedy and Bugg are ordinary players who will probably be at Casey for at least half the year while Melksham would've helped. Hopefully our ordinary trade period is offset by the natural development of our 19-22 year olds and a better injury run than last year.

Im hoping for 8-10 wins but not getting my hopes up like most others are around here.

[Yossarian 1,820]

21 minutes ago, The Third Eye said:

Leaving aside the messenger, I want to know if people think Robbo has it right.

His point is that irrespective of the personnel, the improvement in the list, the greater depth and whether or not we have luck with injury, he believes we can't improve enough to make the eight because Rossy's game plan is far too negative.

 

No.

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

14 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we only win 3-5 games.

As others have mentioned, our list has actually gotten worse with the departures of Howe and Cross. Kennedy and Bugg are ordinary players who will probably be at Casey for at least half the year while Melksham would've helped. Hopefully our ordinary trade period is offset by the natural development of our 19-22 year olds and a better injury run than last year.

Im hoping for 8-10 wins but not getting my hopes up like most others are around here.

So looking on the bright side then........can I ask how many times you have actually seen both Kennedy and Bugg play, probably not as many as the recruiting team, we seem to like what they draft these days, but not trade?

From what I have seen, heard and been told I think 8 wins as a minimum is a pretty realistic expectation for this season

[Ted Lasso 19,223]

49 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we only win 3-5 games.

As others have mentioned, our list has actually gotten worse with the departures of Howe and Cross. Kennedy and Bugg are ordinary players who will probably be at Casey for at least half the year while Melksham would've helped. Hopefully our ordinary trade period is offset by the natural development of our 19-22 year olds and a better injury run than last year.

Im hoping for 8-10 wins but not getting my hopes up like most others are around here.

I disagree, i think you have to allow for player growth before making these calls, Tyson for example is training the best i've seen him since joining us, if he has a year like his first at the club or better it's a significant bonus, Viney is improving all the time and will hopefully play injury free this year, Mcdonald, Gawn and Hogan i expect to all improve again, Garlett kicks a bit straighter and we will score more, he was creating alot of goal scoring opportunities, Lumumba is a far better player then we saw last year.

 

Cross is a big loss, but i reckon Salem will improve enough to cover it, and he's still around the club for the experience 

[beelzebub 23,312]

Cross we'll miss to a degree but with a fit Tyson, a better Brayshaw, Petracca coming in at some point adds. 

Howe is NO loss...actually its a gain as the player that takes over will be a more rounded capable player.

Full preseasons in a handful of others won't go amiss.

We will be 30-40% better as a team this year. Still a way to go to venture into the rarefied climes of top 4 but to contemplate less wins is folly.

[dazzledavey36 54,124]

52 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we only win 3-5 games.

As others have mentioned, our list has actually gotten worse with the departures of Howe and Cross. Kennedy and Bugg are ordinary players who will probably be at Casey for at least half the year while Melksham would've helped. Hopefully our ordinary trade period is offset by the natural development of our 19-22 year olds and a better injury run than last year.

Im hoping for 8-10 wins but not getting my hopes up like most others are around here.

Howe? I certainly won't miss his lazy efforts and casual turnovers off the half back. Personally I would have kept Cross for another year.

Kennedy will be my surprise packet. Think of it as another Dean Kent. Goes in hard and doesn't take a backward step. Has never really been given a full game because of the sub rule.

Bugg is your typical Paul Roos type footballer. Reminds me of Nick Smith of the swans who will just get the job done every week.

 

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Howe? I certainly won't miss his lazy efforts and casual turnovers off the half back. Personally I would have kept Cross for another year.

Kennedy will be my surprise packet. Think of it as another Dean Kent. Goes in hard and doesn't take a backward step. Has never really been given a full game because of the sub rule.

Bugg is your typical Paul Roos type footballer. Reminds me of Nick Smith of the swans who will just get the job done every week.

 

I think Bugg was brought in to replace Cross, played a similar role for the Giants, of course needs to get into the team

Agree with Kennedy, perfect bench player for me now the sub role has gone, can play on wing, midfield or as a small forward

[Yossarian 1,820]

From the Herald Sun article. Looks like the lads who've been around a while are feeling pretty good about the season:

Jones admitted it was the most excited he had ever felt heading into an AFL season.

“It’s so refreshing for guys like me and Lynden Dunn, Jack Grimes — guys who have been around a while. Even guys like Jack Watts and Max Gawn that were inducted into a pretty tough time at the footy club,” he said.

“Now we’re seeing some reward for our effort and we’ve got a lot of young players who are really exciting. They’ve got some serious talent and the main thing that excites me is that attitude and mentality to compete and want to get better.

“We’re on a journey, there’s going to be some ups and downs. But I’m confident in the direction that we’re heading and in the future we can be a very successful side with the group we’ve got.”

[beelzebub 23,312]

Go Dees

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,691]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

So looking on the bright side then........can I ask how many times you have actually seen both Kennedy and Bugg play, probably not as many as the recruiting team, we seem to like what they draft these days, but not trade?

From what I have seen, heard and been told I think 8 wins as a minimum is a pretty realistic expectation for this season

I saw all I needed to see of Kennedy in Collingwood's rd 17 clash with Western Bulldogs at Etihad last year.

Couldn't make the distance from 35 mtrs out at the Lockett end goals. If you can't execute that skill, what hope have you got? 

Buggs played 70 odd games for GWS, I'm pretty sure I've seen a bit of him. He's  not bad but a bit of a worry he fell out of GWS's best 22 last year.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,691]

I must be on my own thinking Howe will be a bad loss.

i think we'll miss his intercept marking and mostly good disposal from defence. He was/is a better defender than forward but I think everyone remembers his laziness as a forward rather than his effectiveness as a defender.  

Howe's better games for the MFC were as a defender.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

3 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I saw all I needed to see of Kennedy in Collingwood's rd 17 clash with Western Bulldogs at Etihad last year.

Couldn't make the distance from 35 mtrs out at the Lockett end goals. If you can't execute that skill, what hope have you got? 

Buggs played 70 odd games for GWS, I'm pretty sure I've seen a bit of him. He's  not bad but a bit of a worry he fell out of GWS's best 22 last year.

So once for Kennedy then? Kelly O'Donnell must have missed that game to put him forward as a potential trade

GWS had what we have been craving, competition for spots, obviously the player who Bugg could take the role from in the team was obviously playing too well to be dropped, it doesn't mean Bugg suddenly lost the ability to be a player