Toumpas v Wines - Oliver v Parish

[Return to Glory 7,750]

1 minute ago, Melbman2 said:

And he looks like a medieval rent boy

Trouble is they bent us over

[Lucifers Hero 37,207]

42 minutes ago, Melbman2 said:

And he looks like a medieval rent boy

 

Not any more

Looks more like Popeye with those arms!

He is being grossly underestimated on DL.

 

[Melbman2 226]

32 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Not any more

Looks more like Popeye with those arms!

He is being grossly underestimated on DL.

 

Jeepers, that club could put muscle on a corpse

[SaberFang 7,141]

Who gives a [censored]. Plays for the drug cheats and I hate his guts as a result.

We all know we'd have taken him if we had pick 5 as well as 4.

[mo64 5,209]

2 hours ago, Old Man Rivers said:

Parish looked like a cocky little [censored] who needs his head punched. Can play but way to early for his smug attitude.

Does he remind you of a petulant key forward playing on the other team?

[Undeeterred 2,870]

39 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Who gives a [censored]. Plays for the drug cheats and I hate his guts as a result.

We all know we'd have taken him if we had pick 5 as well as 4.

I can't be bothered trawling back through the threads, but I'm willing to bet that at least a few of the people in this thread who are heaping it on him would have taken him at 4 regardless.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Not any more

Looks more like Popeye with those arms!

He is being grossly underestimated on DL.

 

No he's not. I think pretty well everyone here knew Parish was going to be an extremely good player.

In fact, I think most here had him pencilled in at pick 4 prior to the draft.

Very happy with Oliver though.

 

[SaberFang 7,141]

Frankly I was staggered we went to all that trouble to get ahead of Essendon in the draft then didn't take him, but it is what it is. The list managers determined Oliver fits our list profile better, and they really haven't set a foot wrong so far. The Toumpas/Wines draft would've hung over their heads like a black cloud.

Ultimately I'm confident both will become elite players, albeit different types. The question is really whether we'd prefer the next Dangerfield/Fyfe or the next Pendlebury?

[faultydet 7,593]

Surely we hold the record for having the most Rising Star nominations against us?

 

Can someone with the time and patience put a list together please? I would bet we would have 3 to 4 times the amount of any other club in the last 5 years.

 

Its another embarrassing indictment of our shiteful mess of a club.

 

**Just checked the last 2 seasons. Seems I went off without the facts. 4 Noms for players against us in the past 2 seasons, while in the same period, the Saints had 6, GWS had 7

Edited April 5, 2016 by faultydet

[1964nowMORE 449]

Seems regardless of who took who both Parish and Oliver will go on to have very good careers for their clubs, play 200+ games and win some things, such as B&Fs.

 

parish looked good on Saturday, almost as good as Oliver looked the week before. Good luck to both, thankfully we got one of them, unlike every other comparison where we got the dud.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,486]

12 hours ago, Tony Tea said:

Essendon had loose players everywhere, including Parish who appears to know how to make space.

We already know how Oliver copes in traffic - very well - so let's see how Parish goes when he inevitability cops the heat Oliver appears to relish.

He definitely had it easy on the weekend with pretty much none of our players manning up on any Bombers players. I imagine in a hot game in the middle we will get smashed by the bigger bodies. I much prefer Oliver as he will be a midfield beast once he gets his fitness levels up a bit.

[rjay 23,948]

12 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Still very happy with Oliver. Just wish we had a Zaharakis and/or Zach Merrett. 

Clarry showed his class on numerous occasions on the weekend, including a clever 4th quarter goal to give us some chance. But the deck was stacked against him and he did look tired. 

We know he isn't going to have the fitness base of a kid who's been in the elite academies all the way through. 

Some time at Casey to let him work on his outside running and getting more uncontested possessions, kicking the footy more (with both feet) and handballing on his left will do wonders for Oliver's development in my opinion. He could average close to 20 touches at AFL level just on sheer ability but he'll wear down and maybe not learn all that much. 

Disagree with you on this, I think Oliver will learn much more in the cut & thrust of AFL.

Going back to Casey, he will just carve it up like he did in the TAC cup...he needs to play against and learn from the best.

[nutbean 8,837]

 

43 minutes ago, rjay said:

Disagree with you on this, I think Oliver will learn much more in the cut & thrust of AFL.

Going back to Casey, he will just carve it up like he did in the TAC cup...he needs to play against and learn from the best.

 

agreed - my only issue is burning him out in the first year - towards the end of last year Brayshaw looked like he was running up and down on the spot and Roos has acknowledged that he needed a rest.

But whilst he is fit and good to go - keep him where he can learn the most - the seniors.

[DeeSpencer 23,256]

5 hours ago, rjay said:

Disagree with you on this, I think Oliver will learn much more in the cut & thrust of AFL.

Going back to Casey, he will just carve it up like he did in the TAC cup...he needs to play against and learn from the best.

Depends on his fitness and role I guess. But overall I think we've tried that strategy for too long. Young players who show good signs so continue to play at the top level when what they need are chances to develop. Did Brayshaw improve much last year? Or did he just get progressively tired and then started preseason injured? He played as a defensive forward for most of the year and averaged 13 disposals when he could've had 30+ each week at Casey. He wasn't using his left foot, he wasn't playing big midfield minutes etc. 

When we drafted Oliver we probably would've taken 10 games of AFL for the year and a couple of them anywhere near as good as his round 1 game. I think for once we should stick to that plan. 

[rjay 23,948]

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Depends on his fitness and role I guess. But overall I think we've tried that strategy for too long. Young players who show good signs so continue to play at the top level when what they need are chances to develop. Did Brayshaw improve much last year? Or did he just get progressively tired and then started preseason injured? He played as a defensive forward for most of the year and averaged 13 disposals when he could've had 30+ each week at Casey. He wasn't using his left foot, he wasn't playing big midfield minutes etc. 

When we drafted Oliver we probably would've taken 10 games of AFL for the year and a couple of them anywhere near as good as his round 1 game. I think for once we should stick to that plan. 

...and he would have learned nothing.

Kids like Brayshaw, Oliver and Petracca when he's ready will get valuable experience playing AFL footy.

It's the others that are not yet up to it that don't, these kids are ready now. No point stunting their development.

Rest them when they need a rest and that doesn't mean play them at Casey...

[Willmoy1947 3,808]

Eighteen Elephants would have made more space than what we did on Saturday!!!

[DeeSpencer 23,256]

42 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and he would have learned nothing.

Kids like Brayshaw, Oliver and Petracca when 

e's ready will get valuable experience playing AFL footy.

It's the others that are not yet up to it that don't, these kids are ready now. No point stunting their development.

Rest them when they need a rest and that doesn't mean play them at Casey...

What proof is there that Brayshaw or Oliver are ready as of right now? Neither looked fit enough for AFL footy on the weekend. That they have strong bodies and can impact on games doesn't mean they are learning to be better players. Sydney had a much better team that we did but they left Tom Mitchell in the reserves for a long time to improve his defensive work rate and skills. 

In the VFL they can learn how to be the star players against men and how to win games. They have enough of the ball in time and space to work on skills. You don't learn how to kick the ball better if you only have 5 kicks a week. Nor do you learn how to run and spread both ways around the ground if you are so fatigued from chasing. 

Brayshaw looked a mile off it. He should be dropped to get match fitness. Oliver might get another week. But if he's not playing more than 60% game time and fatiguing then I really think he'd learn more in the VFL where he's at the level physically and can then work on his skill development. 

[dazzledavey36 48,955]

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

What proof is there that Brayshaw or Oliver are ready as of right now? Neither looked fit enough for AFL footy on the weekend. That they have strong bodies and can impact on games doesn't mean they are learning to be better players. Sydney had a much better team that we did but they left Tom Mitchell in the reserves for a long time to improve his defensive work rate and skills. 

In the VFL they can learn how to be the star players against men and how to win games. They have enough of the ball in time and space to work on skills. You don't learn how to kick the ball better if you only have 5 kicks a week. Nor do you learn how to run and spread both ways around the ground if you are so fatigued from chasing. 

Brayshaw looked a mile off it. He should be dropped to get match fitness. Oliver might get another week. But if he's not playing more than 60% game time and fatiguing then I really think he'd learn more in the VFL where he's at the level physically and can then work on his skill development. 

Agree with you 100%..

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,497]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

What proof is there that Brayshaw or Oliver are ready as of right now? Neither looked fit enough for AFL footy on the weekend. That they have strong bodies and can impact on games doesn't mean they are learning to be better players. Sydney had a much better team that we did but they left Tom Mitchell in the reserves for a long time to improve his defensive work rate and skills. 

In the VFL they can learn how to be the star players against men and how to win games. They have enough of the ball in time and space to work on skills. You don't learn how to kick the ball better if you only have 5 kicks a week. Nor do you learn how to run and spread both ways around the ground if you are so fatigued from chasing. 

Brayshaw looked a mile off it. He should be dropped to get match fitness. Oliver might get another week. But if he's not playing more than 60% game time and fatiguing then I really think he'd learn more in the VFL where he's at the level physically and can then work on his skill development. 

If Brayshaw looked a mile off it, then Kent was 20,000 leagues under the sea.

I actually subscribe to the view that many of the players were tired. They looked it from the start of the game. I wonder if the club knows why. Illness? Over-training? Lack of proper preparation at an individual level? Diet?

[Adzman 2,085]

Oliver looks the goods. That is all.

[Little Goffy 12,711]

The real question is how does Oliver compare to Carlisle... oh.

Interesting that even before the mass suspensions, Essendon would appear to have knowingly been dirty in their deal with St Kilda, what with all that cocaine snorting being known about before the deal went through, but not disclosed.

Essendon. Still above the law.

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

If Brayshaw looked a mile off it, then Kent was 20,000 leagues under the sea.

I actually subscribe to the view that many of the players were tired. They looked it from the start of the game. I wonder if the club knows why. Illness? Over-training? Lack of proper preparation at an individual level? Diet?

Fear of losing.