Toumpas v Wines - Oliver v Parish

[Ted Lasso 16,901]

3 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

How was Toumps confidence shot? 

And why couldn't he get over that if that was the case?

Because you had a kid, come into one of the worst team of all times with the expection he would be one of the key pillars that would pull us out of it, but he and the club knew that his body wasn't going to be anywhere near 100% early on, and in his second year, he'd play a pretty solid game, then get dropped, was in and out of the team all the time, third year he got a solid run and started to show that he could mix it at AFL level a bit and then had a bad game and was dropped again.

not an easy thing to handle for a young man unless you are a particularly resilient person.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

6 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

How was Toumps confidence shot? 

And why couldn't he get over that if that was the case?

He was played before he was ready and had little support from senior players, he was dominated by the opposition, he put too much pressure on himself to perform and when he didn't he beat himself up. 

After his debut, he said to Neeld something along the lines of "I feel like I've just let the entire Greek community down". Talk about putting yourself under too much unnecessary pressure. Most of the Greek community probably CGAF that he was playing. 

He was always trying to live up to the lofty expectations that he, the media and supporters placed on him, and it's obvious that he really struggled when he didn't perform the way he wanted. 

Footy is a confidence game, and when your confidence is low it takes a lot to build it up. If you can't build it up, you won't succeed.

[dazzledavey36 48,935]

36 minutes ago, stuie said:

Don't like putting Toumpas in the same category as Cook, Gysberts, Blease etc, in that he really did put in the work and went where expected in the draft. Just seemed like a bit of bad luck with injuries and things just not "clicking" for him. Ripper bloke, and I wish him all the best with his career.

 

Spot on.

Unlike those 3 Toump was actually a hard trainer who did everything possible rright to become a good AFL. As you put it sometimes its just unfortunate luck with injuries tgat stall some of these players. He is the type of kid that you want around the footy club.

I wish him nothing but success at port.

[dazzledavey36 48,935]

17 minutes ago, Good Times Grimes said:

He was played before he was ready and had little support from senior players, he was dominated by the opposition, he put too much pressure on himself to perform and when he didn't he beat himself up. 

After his debut, he said to Neeld something along the lines of "I feel like I've just let the entire Greek community down". Talk about putting yourself under too much unnecessary pressure. Most of the Greek community probably CGAF that he was playing. 

He was always trying to live up to the lofty expectations that he, the media and supporters placed on him, and it's obvious that he really struggled when he didn't perform the way he wanted. 

Footy is a confidence game, and when your confidence is low it takes a lot to build it up. If you can't build it up, you won't succeed.

Spot on again.

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

10 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

Because you had a kid, come into one of the worst team of all times with the expection he would be one of the key pillars that would pull us out of it, but he and the club knew that his body wasn't going to be anywhere near 100% early on, and in his second year, he'd play a pretty solid game, then get dropped, was in and out of the team all the time, third year he got a solid run and started to show that he could mix it at AFL level a bit and then had a bad game and was dropped again.

not an easy thing to handle for a young man unless you are a particularly resilient person.

 

8 minutes ago, Good Times Grimes said:

He was played before he was ready and had little support from senior players, he was dominated by the opposition, he put too much pressure on himself to perform and when he didn't he beat himself up. 

After his debut, he said to Neeld something along the lines of "I feel like I've just let the entire Greek community down". Talk about putting yourself under too much unnecessary pressure. Most of the Greek community probably CGAF that he was playing. 

He was always trying to live up to the lofty expectations that he, the media and supporters placed on him, and it's obvious that he really struggled when he didn't perform the way he wanted. 

Footy is a confidence game, and when your confidence is low it takes a lot to build it up. If you can't build it up, you won't succeed.

I don't agree. 

I think when McCartney arrived Roos told him he's got 12 months to work out whether Jimmy was worth persisting with and the answer was no. This isn't just about Wines/Toumpas there were a number of other great kids that were drafted that year. And for those that say all the recruiters had him at three, I would say you don't simply loose your ability in one year. One year under Neeld, two under Roos. If he couldn't regain his confidence under Roos then I'm glad we've cut ties. Jones isn't the most talented player on the list but one thing he is, is mentally tough. I do agree that some (a lot) of our senior players have been disappointing in recent years but in Jimmys case I think (and yes I could be wrong) it's another Morton, could dominate junior level but couldn't make the transition. Look at the impact some of the young Saints had last year or the Bulldogs. One thing most AFL coaches say at the coaching conferences when asked about what they look for when drafting players "natural competitors/players who hunt the footy has overtaken elite skills and basketball background (I threw that last one in). Decision making you can train for to a certain degree if you have good structures. 

[Ted Lasso 16,901]

2 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

 

I don't agree. 

I think when McCartney arrived Roos told him he's got 12 months to work out whether Jimmy was worth persisting with and the answer was no. This isn't just about Wines/Toumpas there were a number of other great kids that were drafted that year. And for those that say all the recruiters had him at three, I would say you don't simply loose your ability in one year. One year under Neeld, two under Roos. If he couldn't regain his confidence under Roos then I'm glad we've cut ties. Jones isn't the most talented player on the list but one thing he is, is mentally tough. I do agree that some (a lot) of our senior players have been disappointing in recent years but in Jimmys case I think (and yes I could be wrong) it's another Morton, could dominate junior level but couldn't make the transition. Look at the impact some of the young Saints had last year or the Bulldogs. One thing most AFL coaches say at the coaching conferences when asked about what they look for when drafting players "natural competitors/players who hunt the footy has overtaken elite skills and basketball background (I threw that last one in). Decision making you can train for to a certain degree if you have good structures. 

I suppose that by the end of his contract with Port you weil have an answer, but i still believe Jimmy could have been an AFL level player with us, having said that i am not unhappy with what we got in return for him and do believe moving on is the best thing he could do for himself.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

Jimmy would only be 21/22? It's not too late for him, he's with a great team/club and if he can reignite his career all the best to him. I think we all agree the move had to happen. 

Cant remember what we got for him, was it the Melksham pick?

[dazzledavey36 48,935]

I am more looking forward to Ben Kennedy who i just see as a straight swap for Toumpas.

[stuie 7,374]

14 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I don't agree. 

I think when McCartney arrived Roos told him he's got 12 months to work out whether Jimmy was worth persisting with and the answer was no.

 

4 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Jimmy would only be 21/22? It's not too late for him, he's with a great team/club and if he can reignite his career all the best to him. I think we all agree the move had to happen. 

I'm a little confused BA. Do you think he can make it or not?

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

 

I'm a little confused BA. Do you think he can make it or not?

 

No I don't, but if manages to turn his form around and forge out a career at Port I wish him well. 

As with Grimes and Watts who I've done to death over the years, I have nothing personal against them, my comments are based purely on their ability as a footballer.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

No I don't, but if manages to turn his form around and forge out a career at Port I wish him well. 

As with Grimes and Watts who I've done to death over the years, I have nothing personal against them, my comments are based purely on their ability as a footballer.

Fair call. It's not really their ability that's the problem though is it? All 3 of those guys have the talent and ability, but something just hasn't quite worked for them. Wonder if it's the same thing for all 3 or if it's just some grey area of psychological development.

 

[nutbean 8,837]

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Fair call. It's not really their ability that's the problem though is it? All 3 of those guys have the talent and ability, but something just hasn't quite worked for them. Wonder if it's the same thing for all 3 or if it's just some grey area of psychological development.

 

I think Toumpas and Watts is definitely between the ears. ( although Toumpas also has been hampered with injuries as well)

Grimes - I think he is actually mentally tough ( physically he has been stop and start). But he does have some gaps in his skills.

[Gator 16,893]

Any way you want to slice it or dice it Toumpas was hopeless in contests.  

He had a terrible percentage ratio of contested ball in juniors but it was overlooked and didn't hinder his draft status.  Unfortunately, it was magnified at VFL and AFL levels against stronger bodies.  In Harry Hindsight it's a lesson worth remembering.  Which doesn't mean you'll run a line through future juniors with poor contested ball ratios, but you'll have a question mark.

I'm not a huge fan of Ben Kennedy (fantastic junior), but at least he dominates at VFL level.  Toumpas was ordinary at that level too.

I don't feel any sympathy for Toumpas, it just is what it is.  Can he turn it around at Port ?  Don't know don't care.

[stuie 7,374]

5 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Any way you want to slice it or dice it Toumpas was hopeless in contests.  

He had a terrible percentage ratio of contested ball in juniors but it was overlooked and didn't hinder his draft status.  Unfortunately, it was magnified at VFL and AFL levels against stronger bodies.  In Harry Hindsight it's a lesson worth remembering.  Which doesn't mean you'll run a line through future juniors with poor contested ball ratios, but you'll have a question mark.

I'm not a huge fan of Ben Kennedy (fantastic junior), but at least he dominates at VFL level.  Toumpas was ordinary at that level too.

I don't feel any sympathy for Toumpas, it just is what it is.  Can he turn it around at Port ?  Don't know don't care.

If only you'd been there to tell all the professional recruiters what a mistake they were making...

 

[beelzebub 22,240]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

If only you'd been there to tell all the professional recruiters what a mistake they were making...

 

Shame he wasn't really lol . The mistake was made.

Think the likelihood of such a recurrence reduced now as it would seem an entirely different type of prototype is sought now.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

Cam. McCarthey just granted indefinite leave for personal reasons.

[dazzledavey36 48,935]

Gws were stupid and now going to potentially pay the price. Should have just traded him when he CLEARLY did not want to be there. Could have got something decent in return at least. Oh well their problem now..

[stuie 7,374]

8 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Cam. McCarthey just granted indefinite leave for personal reasons.

Wow. That's huge. What a mess!

Homesick Cam McCarthy granted indefinite leave by the Giants

"GREATER Western Sydney has granted key forward Cam McCarthy indefinite leave to allow him to return to Western Australia.

The 20-year-old is understood to have informed the Giants on Wednesday he was homesick and wanted time with family."

 

[Deemonator 12]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

If only you'd been there to tell all the professional recruiters what a mistake they were making...

 

Someone must have told the GWS recruiters....

[DeeSpencer 23,240]

3 minutes ago, Deemonator said:

Someone must have told the GWS recruiters....

Because Jon O'Rourke and Lachie Plowman are going so much better?

GWS didn't draft South Australian's as a rule, they didn't risk Wingard going home and that looks a bad decision. They've made many.

The best way to stop stuffing up high draft picks is to stop having high draft picks.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Gws were stupid and now going to potentially pay the price. Should have just traded him when he CLEARLY did not want to be there. Could have got something decent in return at least. Oh well their problem now..

 

7 minutes ago, stuie said:

Wow. That's huge. What a mess!

Homesick Cam McCarthy granted indefinite leave by the Giants

"GREATER Western Sydney has granted key forward Cam McCarthy indefinite leave to allow him to return to Western Australia.

The 20-year-old is understood to have informed the Giants on Wednesday he was homesick and wanted time with family."

 

What I don't get is I'm assuming he'll have to sit the year out. 

The AFL needs to step in, as in Freo must trade for him next year. 

Not a good precedent.

 

[Cranky Franky 1,499]

51 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I think Toumpas and Watts is definitely between the ears. ( although Toumpas also has been hampered with injuries as well)

Grimes - I think he is actually mentally tough ( physically he has been stop and start). But he does have some gaps in his skills.

This is not about potting Toumpas - I wish him well - its about the 5 picks taken straight after Toump - Stringer & Wines look like being superstars & Macrae, Mayes & Vlasutin very good players.

Anyway you look at it ouch !!

[Deemonator 12]

6 minutes ago, Georgiou R.R. Martin said:

Because Jon O'Rourke and Lachie Plowman are going so much better?

GWS didn't draft South Australian's as a rule, they didn't risk Wingard going home and that looks a bad decision. They've made many.

The best way to stop stuffing up high draft picks is to stop having high draft picks.

Can't argue with that. Just goes to show how hard it is, even with all the research and information that the modern recruiter is armed with, to nail top draft picks.

[DeeSpencer 23,240]

5 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

 

What I don't get is I'm assuming he'll have to sit the year out. 

The AFL needs to step in, as in Freo must trade for him next year. 

Not a good precedent.

 

He's still contracted for this year and next year as well I believe. So he'll have to be traded. 

I hope that after a month or so off in WA he gets back to playing for GWS (via their reserves I imagine), finishes the year and then it will be up to the WA clubs to see what his trade value is. 

If he retires or GWS sack him for failure to fulfil his contract then it's going to be like the Mitch Clark situation.

[Gator 16,893]

McCarthy is a spoilt sook.  GWS were right not to trade him.  You can't just pick and choose where you'll work when you're under contract.  He knew what was on offer when he entered the draft.

It might have been different if Freo offered anything half decent.  They didn't enhance prospects of a trade.