POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 20

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

There were plenty of negatives and most are self evident but I can't help but give a special mention to Lumumba. Whatever he had has gone and has become a horrible, horrible player. The Prince of turnovers.

Sadly, it is no longer possible to deny this.

H is really no better or worse than he was at Collingwood and he is now in an inferior side. Surprised people think his performance would be any different from what we've seen.

At C'wood, he could kick it and find a teammate. Here, the teammates he manages to find are the ones who are about to get clobbered.

At C'wood he was able to find space. Here, there is no space, for anyone, because all the oppo know that we only play decent footy when we get some space. So they crowd us.

[McQueen 17,864]

At Collingwood, H was never a strong defensive player, he was a runner with the ability to break lines albeit he has always had a question mark over his skills. He rarely, if ever, has consistently lowered his eyes (much in the same way Nate Jones did for much of his early career) and so has been prone to turnovers.

He is basically the same player at Melbourne, it is just that his lack of defensive accountability is more exposed due to high numbers of d50 entries and our skills make it harder for him to receive and run the lines effectively.

Dean Terlich has a top 3 B&F finish in the past three years btw. So I hope others subscribe to your logic at trade time.

He's clearly a worse player now.

Agree with your summation above.

[poita 3,902]

This is what happens when you have (a) a coach who has no investment in the club other than collecting a massive pay check each month and (b) a playing group that chooses if and when it will come to play because the majority have no fear of being dropped or otherwise held accountable for their dismal performances and pizzweak efforts (exhibit 1: Lumumba).

As soon as we concede two or three early goals we collectively decide its all too hard and give up - won't tackle, won't shepherd, won't chase, won't present to the ball carrier, won't put our bodies on the line, etc, etc. And the coach has all the tactical nous and innovation of a jar of vegemite, so there is no chance of him changing things up to try and change the flow of the game. After conceding the first five goals we should have stacked the backline for ten minutes just to get our hands on the footy for a while, but no we let the Bulldogs run in another 7 goals unchecked. Roosy tells us there were plenty of positives last week, and I'm sure he found plenty of positives from yesterday as well.

I'm sure the same old suspects (Bail, M.Jones, Grimes) will be dropped this week and Roosy's pets will live to see another day.

PS. Whoever the moron is who lets Cross, McDonald and Lumumba get away with their ridiculous handballing inside defensive 50 on a weekly basis, he or she should be taken outside and beaten. If in doubt, just kick the ball as far away from the opposition goals as possible. Most of their first quarter goals were a direct result of our handling errors.

Edited August 16, 2015 by poita

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,734]

The over reaction on this site is hilarious, for both wins and losses.

After we beat the Pies people talk about Jones as the best leader in the comp, how many flags we will win etc.

Then we lose and suddenly Jones is not a leader, we need to de-list half the team and we will be finishing last forever.

I view yesterdays game as a sh*t happens kind of day. They are challenging for top 4, we are just trying to see the season out. I imagine we have also set ourselves for this week as it's probably the last realistic game we can win, plus possibly the GWS game if they are out of the finals race. The Dogs yesterday reminded me of the day we flogged the Swans, everything went right for them and they just played with a super human confidence.

I believe that as soon as they are removed from Etihad in the finals they will crumble anyway.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

PS. Whoever the moron is who lets Cross, McDonald and Lumumba get away with their ridiculous handballing inside defensive 50 on a weekly basis, he or she should be taken outside and beaten. If in doubt, just kick the ball as far away from the opposition goals as possible. Most of their first quarter goals were a direct result of our handling errors.

We see this every week from most clubs and the supporters yell out "Just kick the bl00dy thing!!!!" like we used to see them do in the 60s 70s and 80s.

The modern thinking is, while we have the ball in our hands, even if heavily pressured, we can still work our system and have a chance to get it out to our guys, in position, and work it downfield. If not, fall on the ball and create a stoppage so we can get everyone in position.

But if we kick it somewhere, anywhere, it could (a) gift them a goal, (b) lead to a contest where they end up getting with their hands on it, near their goal, or © lead to a contest where we get it, possibly with everyone out of position. Or (d), we get it in space and work it downfield. The odds aren't appealing.

That's why they do it. Possession game. While we've got the ball, they haven't.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

That's why they do it. Possession game. While we've got the ball, they haven't.

But through excessive and unnecessary handballing we more often than not turn the ball over deep in our defence.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

But through excessive and unnecessary handballing we more often than not turn the ball over deep in our defence.

Correct Biz! We handball to players too close, under pressure or simply handball poorly. ATM I'd rather see the turnover occur a further 50 metres away and give us some chance of regrouping. ( Or, heaven fordib, even winning the contest 50 metres closer to goal)

[jnrmac 20,061]

Grimes was the bloody sub you nitwit. Played for a quarter, got 40 dream team points. Over a whole game, that would give him a score of 160 on this particular meaningless statistic.

Yep I missed that, But here's a tip , if you are going to have a go at other posters best you get your facts right. Grimes played over a half as he came into the game in the 2nd qtr when Jetta went off to hospital.

Nitwit

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

I dunno, what gets me is the stark difference between the third quarter and the other three......we actually had them rattled, they couldnt buy a goal...we looked to be playing with so much confidence and aggression......but it disappeared as just as quickly....

[What 18,810]

Well i promised myself if we have another Neeld-era performance in the remainder of season Ill stop bothering with the MFC for 2015, so yeah thats it for me... see y'all back here in the lead up to the trade period..

[BrisbaneDemon 1,572]

Well i promised myself if we have another Neeld-era performance in the remainder of season Ill stop bothering with the MFC for 2015, so yeah thats it for me... see y'all back here in the lead up to the trade period..

see you next week mate haha!

[Deeoldfart 8,030]

They played like an empty shell of a team for 3/4 of the game. No heart, no pride, no belief and no care factor. How the hell can that be? Unless we can somehow inject these qualities (not using needles) for every minute of every match, finals in 2017 seems like an outrageous objective. Last night I was angry. That emotion has now dissipated, but I remain extremely disillusioned with a team that promises so much and gives so little.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Deeoldfart

[Dr. Mubutu 852]

I left renewing my membership until the last possible day in 2015. Justified it by telling myself the club needs all the members it can get.

Yesterday made me question why I even bothered. I'm sick of a team being paid exactly the same as every other to come out and not care at all. Good luck for memberships in 2016, Melbourne. You're gonna need it.

[praha 11,240]

Well i promised myself if we have another Neeld-era performance in the remainder of season Ill stop bothering with the MFC for 2015, so yeah thats it for me... see y'all back here in the lead up to the trade period..

I'm also done. I'm in Seoul for work next weekend, and I'm not paying to watch it online. I'll be back for the Freo game but have a wedding on that day. For the GWS game, no chance in hell I'm going back to Etihad to see them get flogged again.

I'm done for 2015.

Here's to an entertaining Finals series!

[hemingway 7,627]

Just another hollow feeling. Amazing how each week, you summon up a little hope and interest to end up with that same old empty feeling. Cannot summon up enough interest to read Demonland or to think about the whys and wherefores or ins and outs next week. Next weeks game is depressing. I am not sure at this stage of the week whether I can face it. Two wretched teams facing up to one another. So far to go for both teams. A win will not prove much and a loss will just be another kick in the guts and a miserable end to the season. The side with the least turnovers should win.

[FireOath 290]

Gotta say though, how was Dunn's massive couple of torps!?

[Roost It 1,434]

The trajectory of the club remains overwhelmingly positive

We were never going to beat the Dogs, they're on a massive roll

[olisik 4,060]

Gotta say though, how was Dunn's massive couple of torps!?

Definitely a highlight for me, tried to give us something different with the Torps and mix it up a bit.

I need to say, i dont understand the love for Harmes here, i understand he is new but yesterday he cost us at least 3 - 4 goals in shocking turn-overs. He seems to panic with the ball and do hospital handpasses or kick it straight to an opposition player. Only once he was able to perform a good kick to Hogan which led to a goal however it looked like sheer luck from an errant kick out of a pack center it.

I hope the coaches try to rectify this as right now I would prefer Bail or M Jones ahead of Harmes. He is young so their is definitely time.

[Redleg 40,913]

Definitely a highlight for me, tried to give us something different with the Torps and mix it up a bit.

I need to say, i dont understand the love for Harmes here, i understand he is new but yesterday he cost us at least 3 - 4 goals in shocking turn-overs. He seems to panic with the ball and do hospital handpasses or kick it straight to an opposition player. Only once he was able to perform a good kick to Hogan which led to a goal however it looked like sheer luck from an errant kick out of a pack center it.

I hope the coaches try to rectify this as right now I would prefer Bail or M Jones ahead of Harmes. He is young so their is definitely time.

You would prefer Bail, who made 5 mistakes in about 6 minutes and has no future at the club.

[FireOath 290]

Definitely a highlight for me, tried to give us something different with the Torps and mix it up a bit.

It would be good if we could set up a play and use this like White with Port but use Garlett out the back. No one will catch him.

[pitmaster 3,549]

PS. Whoever the moron is who lets Cross, McDonald and Lumumba get away with their ridiculous handballing inside defensive 50 on a weekly basis, he or she should be taken outside and beaten. If in doubt, just kick the ball as far away from the opposition goals as possible. Most of their first quarter goals were a direct result of our handling errors.

I watched the Swans this week and for long periods of the game, when they were struggling in the first half especially, they looked like us.

Then they started finding their targets and they were able to burn off the pies.

A lot of modern football relies on slick, quick hands under pressure before someone can run the ball out The Tigers are the same. It's great when it works and deplorable when it doesn't.

But notice how these days players don't kick off the ground (unless they are in their own attacking goal square)? Coaches don't want uncontrolled chaos balls and that's what the blind 'just kick it' call amounts to as well.

You can't bag the intent of that handling - it's the execution, delivering it to someone who is a: standing still or b: already manned up.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I hope the coaches try to rectify this as right now I would prefer Bail or M Jones ahead of Harmes. He is young so their is definitely time.

Would rather they keep playing Harmes to find out if he's up to it, than Bail who we know isn't up to it.

Tyson as an example. If they can do it, they'll show it, given time.

[Redleg 40,913]

I see 3 problems from yesterday.

First, I feel that the Dogs are coached far better than us. They know where to go and what to do instinctively, while we react.

Second, we will always lose when we play poorly skilled players, who continually stuff up disposal.

Third, our coaches box let down the team yesterday. When the Dogs got their first 3 goals, we should have thrown in an extra man in defence. We did this after they got 8 goals at about the 29 minute mark of the first quarter and you could then see the change immediately. They stopped the free flowing footy and started going sideways. We caused some turnovers and for about 2 quarters outscored them. Then we go back to normal defence and wham bam and with the help of some pathetic umpiring, they massacre us.

On a side issue, I think if you look at the stats over a number of years, the one side that smashes us with the umpires, are the Dogs. It happened again yesterday, for about the 20th time that I can recall, over about the last decade. Of course it didn't affect the win but again yesterday I think they got about 7 goals from frees and 50 metre penalties. They got numerous holding the balls while we couldn't and at one stage as usual the frees were about 17 - 5 their way before we got a few softies, when it was all over, to end up 19-10 against. We clearly do nothing about it. Eddie would be on the front page of the Sun.

[olisik 4,060]

Would rather they keep playing Harmes to find out if he's up to it, than Bail who we know isn't up to it.

Tyson as an example. If they can do it, they'll show it, given time.

I would prefer Toumpas over Harmes at the moment. Harmes knows how to get the ball and isnt to bad defensively but he really needs to slow down, lower the eyes and compose himself before disposing and not rush.

I was cringing whenever he went near the ball yesterday, he constantly turned the ball over in our forward 50 which the bullies smashed right down their end for a quick goal.

[olisik 4,060]

What is our free count for and against this year?

I cant recall one game where we have received more frees then the opposition