Roos v Beveridge

[jnrmac 20,095]

Ok this is not a thread to say we should have picked Beveridge over Roos but in light of the extraordinary tactics of the Bulldogs I think there are fair questions to ask of our coaching staff.

For those that didn't see it the Bulldogs nearly pulled off an incredible victory over Freo by conceding the ruck dual. Freo won the hitouts 69 to 13. They used Goodes and others as a ruck and loaded their fwd line with talls and effectively played a loose man in defence. It was very unconventional thinking. And it nearly won them the game as they were level with a few minutes to go.

Which brings me to Roos and the Melbourne coaching staff.

Melbourne were never going to be able to play the way they wanted to against a team like Hawthorn. They are tough, well drilled and play a team zone game (‘Our back six are there to protect the goals’). We were well below our best 22 and coming off two bruising encounters with the Swans and Freo.

We have been smashed by Hawthorn on the previous 11 occasions. Mitchell, Roughead and Hale in particular kill us (as do Lewis and Hodge when they rare playing).

So what did we do that was different. How did we go about playing against a team that performs like this? What did we do to plan for what was predictable at the outset. Did we plan to smash Mitchell? Did we plan to double team Roughhead? Did we do any planning at all?

Nup. What we got was same old same old. I could have written the script a month ago and been bang on.

We must be the easiest team in the league to play against – even Carlton and GC are as inept as us. Not only do we do the same stuff week in week out but we have no leaders other than Jones and TMac who can stand up and win their position against their opponent. We don’t do the basics right - like have a tall on the back line to kill a ball that comes in for goal – or man up when the opposition has the ball, or hit targets from 20m away, or run and spread when we have the ball. How about we even stick a few tackles? FFs we are second to the ball often enough. Tackling is all about intent and desire. Yes there is technique but it’s largely the first two. Brayshaw has it in spades and he is a six gamer.

Words can’t describe how disillusioned I am with this football club. They are spineless and heartless. My kids have given up (‘why would you want to follow that bunch of losers Dad’) and I don’t blame them. I would too if I could.

But I don’t have to watch the crap they dish up every week and I won’t be for some time. They can come back to me when they have won two or heaven forbid three in a row and have some semblance of personal pride and our club isn’t the laughing stock of the competition.

What would Luke Hodge do with Jack Watts? What would Joel Selwood do with Jeremy Howe? Why do our players think it is acceptable to play 5m away from their man when we don’t have the ball? Why can’t they ‘zone’ like every other team zones. There are so many questions because we are so inept. Basic questions that go to the heart of simple football. Keep the ball from the opposition and give it to one of your own players. Where is the simple pride in performance? Where is the desire to beat your opponent? Where is the desire to take frustrations out by driving your opponents head into the turf when you tackle him?

So what re the coaching staff doing? Telling their players to 'forget it' and 'we won't learn anything from reviewing that'. Really??

Why is it that Luke Beveridge and even Alan Richardson can get their teams playing exciting inspiring football? Who picked that at teh start of the season?? Why can’t Melbourneplay like that? Is it because we as supporters don’t demand it? Is it because the administration of the club doesn’t demand it? Is it because of the lack of on-field leadership at the club? Is it because the coaches are stuck in a time warp. The coaching staff need a serious rocket up their collective backsides. They need to challenge each every play to do one task. Beat their man. They are being shown up by two rookie coaches. Big time.

I don’t what the answers are but I know what I see every week. I can’t take this team stuffing up my weekends any more. I have better things to do in life. Things that are actually enjoyable.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Well said Jnr. I was listening to the Dogs game thinking pretty much the same things....

[poita 3,902]

As I posted in another thread, we are 2 wins 15 losses with a percentage of 62 since the middle of last year. That is as bad as anything Neeld presided over, and probably worse given the greater talent at Roos' disposal.

Roos is great at making everyone feel warm and fuzzy and telling them what they want to hear.

I am yet to see any evidence that he has the first idea regarding match day coaching, a decent game plan and countering opposition strategies. I keep hearing that Ross Lyon was the brains behind Sydney's success, and I suspect we were sold a million dollar a year lemon.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Roos is doing what McCartney did for the dogs, teaching them about defence and contested ball, beveridge took over a really well built foundation, Roos took over a train wreck

i also think a lot of our ball movement issues are to do with blokes up the field not running hard enough to create options, and our ruckman and talls besides Jesse not being good enough to take a contested grab around the ground

Goodwin will bring a more attacking flair to our game, he already has but he'll take over a team that knows how to defend, how to play finals footy and has some serious development into our young guys

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Also a coach looking at the door can't be a good thing for the players, i feel he could only ever be 90% committed to the cause, how could you be more if you weren't desperate to stay

[praha 11,240]

But they train really hard guys!

[jackaub 1,402]

Not nearly enough scruitny of the coaching staff IMO

The fact that they wont review Saturdays disaster says it all

There is more wrong at the club than we are being told obviously. How can players keep putting in performances like that it is beyond me?

Where is the President? Who is running this show?

[jackaub 1,402]

Roos is doing what McCartney did for the dogs, teaching them about defence and contested ball, beveridge took over a really well built foundation, Roos took over a train wreck

i also think a lot of our ball movement issues are to do with blokes up the field not running hard enough to create options, and our ruckman and talls besides Jesse not being good enough to take a contested grab around the ground

Goodwin will bring a more attacking flair to our game, he already has but he'll take over a team that knows how to defend, how to play finals footy and has some serious development into our young guys

Yeh just great except they aren't defending are they ? Whats plan B for Goodwin another Bl*5#y rebuild?

[dazzledavey36 54,948]

Watching the bulldogs and saints play the way they do reminds me of Bailey era of 2010 and early 2011.

Say what you want about him but on field he had us on the right track. We were playing some of the most exciting footy i had seen during my time supporting this club. Its no coincidence guys like Frawley Trengove Jurrah Gysberts Scully Grimez were developing really well and all looking like bona fide stars, we were all applauding what a young gun Jordie Mckenzie will be because he was tearing the competition apart with his tackle count. We were heading in the right direction on field.

But thanks to the board administration led by Chris Connelly Cameron Schwab they killed of all the soul and positivity of this club. Im not going to go right into it as i will probably get a couple of weeks if i write on here what i really thought of those two.

But if your board level doesn't support the coach and what he is trying to create you will have your hands tired behind your back which Bailey did unfortunately.

[jnrmac 20,095]

Roos is doing what McCartney did for the dogs, teaching them about defence and contested ball, beveridge took over a really well built foundation, Roos took over a train wreck

i also think a lot of our ball movement issues are to do with blokes up the field not running hard enough to create options, and our ruckman and talls besides Jesse not being good enough to take a contested grab around the ground

Goodwin will bring a more attacking flair to our game, he already has but he'll take over a team that knows how to defend, how to play finals footy and has some serious development into our young guys

Yeah yeah talk to the hand..

I mean I get what you are saying but frankly we have heard it before. hey this was another line in the sand game. Dawsey told us. Fme we must have had at least 25 of those in the past 4 years. Words are meaningless and cheap.

We deserve action on the field. Something that says 'there is a soul', ' there is a pulse'.

[stuie 7,374]

There are two simple things we haven't done for 10 years.

1. Shepherd

2. Run without the ball

Staggers me that this hasn't been rectified by any of the coaches we've had in that time. Our other problem has been lack of spirit, but a few shepherds and a bit of a run on and that will grow.

It's not complicated. Shepherd for your teammates, and keep moving when you don't have the ball.

[rjay 24,935]

Watching the bulldogs and saints play the way they do reminds me of Bailey era of 2010 and early 2011.

Say what you want about him but on field he had us on the right track. We were playing some of the most exciting footy i had seen during my time supporting this club. Its no coincidence guys like Frawley Trengove Jurrah Gysberts Scully Grimez were developing really well and all looking like bona fide stars, we were all applauding what a young gun Jordie Mckenzie will be because he was tearing the competition apart with his tackle count. We were heading in the right direction on field.

But thanks to the board administration led by Chris Connelly Cameron Schwab they killed of all the soul and positivity of this club. Im not going to go right into it as i will probably get a couple of weeks if i write on here what i really thought of those two.

But if your board level doesn't support the coach and what he is trying to create you will have your hands tired behind your back which Bailey did unfortunately.

It was a very dark period for the club 'dazzle', unfortunately it's still hanging over us. I thought we might have moved on but it's taking a long time for this ship to turn around.

What also shouldn't be forgotten is a lot of the bullets fired at Bailey came from some in the media, Gary Lyon leading the pack.

[dazzledavey36 54,948]

It was a very dark period for the club 'dazzle', unfortunately it's still hanging over us. I thought we might have moved on but it's taking a long time for this ship to turn around.

What also shouldn't be forgotten is a lot of the bullets fired at Bailey came from some in the media, Gary Lyon leading the pack.

I could only imagine that a Peter Jackson board level would have done wonders for Bailey.

[praha 11,240]

My concern with Roos is that the only level of accountability will be through retrospective critique, because he won't be sacked. Only his coaching reputation will take a hit, not his actual employment.

Not to say he should be sacked, but Bailey was sacked for a lot less and Neeld's coaching performance was no worse than what we've seen from Roos in 1.3 seasons.

Throw a better score average, higher percentage, smaller win margin at me, but you'd expect some improvement because we were so bad. We're still pretty bad though.

Is it improvement at all if those previously in a similar position have improved more?

[KingDingAling 3,758]

I think McCartney did a fantastic job at the Bullies, and they are reaping the rewards.

Beveridge has had a good start, but not tagging Nat Fyfe clearly cost them the game yesterday.

Like many rookie coaches, Beveridge has a lot to learn. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Paul Roos IMO.

[deanox 9,930]

While I definitely wish it was going faster, I don't think Roos should be judged 7 games into his 2nd year here.

We knew he had more to do than just recruit a couple of blokes. It isn't like we had the castle and were looking for a coaching master mind.

Roos' job is to change the culture. And he is doing that. Slowly. It will take time. Expect big changes again at the end of the year so that hopefully we have a) 30 afl standard players to pick from and b) hardly any players left scarred from the last 7 years.

Honestly i don't expect us to compete well regularly until 2017 (When i think Roos will have created a new list). Until then we will be inconsistent.

Changing the culture will take 3 years. After that it is about performance.

[Coq au vin 755]

My concern with Roos is that the only level of accountability will be through retrospective critique, because he won't be sacked. Only his coaching reputation will take a hit, not his actual employment.

Not to say he should be sacked, but Bailey was sacked for a lot less and Neeld's coaching performance was no worse than what we've seen from Roos in 1.3 seasons.

Throw a better score average, higher percentage, smaller win margin at me, but you'd expect some improvement because we were so bad. We're still pretty bad though.

Is it improvement at all if those previously in a similar position have improved more?

Roos has started the tanking earlier this year.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

It is an interesting that both clubs who tanked the hardest over a period of time are the 2 clubs playing with no spirit.

There is an emptiness to the MFC. The players had a crack for 2 minutes on saturday then up went the white flag.

They can do it. For some reason they all decided (T Mac) excluded that it was all too hard.

For 2 preseasons Roos and his assistants have had this team. That should be enough to get a team believing and to learn basic skills and a knowledge of how your team mates play.

I have no doubt the previous CEO nearly killed this club, infact it maybe too late.

There is no value in the jumper or the club when ANY heat is applied

in 10 seasons regardless of personel changes the team continues to spew out VFL standard (maybe worse) performances whilst the toughest bunch of supporters have to endure ridicule.

[beelzebub 23,378]

Roos is obviously a very good 'holistic' coach in so far as the 'overall" goes but im not impressed with game days. Yes you can only work with what you have but I seldom see much beyond meat and 3 veg.

Im glad he is with the club but im not depressed that he'll hand over to someone with possibly a different tack to weekends.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

Was this antiRoos sentiment going around following the Gold Coast or Richmond wins?

Or has it only sprung up after we play the three best teams in the league?

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Was this antiRoos sentiment going around following the Gold Coast or Richmond wins?

Or has it only sprung up after we play the three best teams in the league?

This goes deeper than Roos. This is how much the club is valued by the players once the siren goes.

It aint a new dilema

[Yossarian 1,820]

All the same crap people were saying about Brenton Sanderson. Let's just see if it lasts.

[praha 11,240]

Was this antiRoos sentiment going around following the Gold Coast or Richmond wins?

Or has it only sprung up after we play the three best teams in the league?

They were good wins, sure.

But we all knew the real test would come the week after, and evidentially, the team as crumbled both weeks after their wins. Yeah, the competition has been tough thus far, but surely we've reached a point as fans now that we don't hold wins over GC and Richmond that highly. It's more about now how they respond to both wins and losses. In both aspects, they continue to let us down.

[beelzebub 23,378]

Was this antiRoos sentiment going around following the Gold Coast or Richmond wins?

Or has it only sprung up after we play the three best teams in the league?

There's been some interest in the day game style/coaching irrespective of those wins. I think there's legitimate concern about how we play and how the box reacts on the day. We're caught napping often.

[P-man 13,366]

The most worrying thing for me is the number of under performing players. Senior players. To have so many inconsistent performers is killing us on the field.

Let's just see how we fare over the next three weeks. There is no reason why we can't at least be in the contest against our next three opponents. If we fail to achieve that, then questions can and should be asked and the heat will naturally come onto Roos, succession plan or not.