Roos v Beveridge

[Ted Lasso 18,383]

he may very well be an excellent coach, but his results are rock bottom, we are lower than i imagined possible.

well actually since he took over he has increased our win ratio by 50% increased our % by 30% taken us from the worst defensive team in the comp to top 8 and seen several individuals take their game to new levels despite current form, based on the body of work over the past 18 months

Dunn, Jetta, Mcdonald, N.jones, Tyson, Viney, Pederson, Kent have all improved significantly as players and the young talent bought in since are progressing well

we have also lost just one game by 100 points or more in the past 18 months, and only 2 by 80 or more, compared to more than ten of those losses in the previous 18 months

but hey, who wants to let the truth get in the way of a good story?

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

At the hands of non Victorian teams?

Yep, Freo and Sydney are ordinary. Who would've thought we could've fallen so far.

Essendon beat Hawks, good against Swans

Doggies beat Swans, good against Freo

GWS beat Hawks

I'm just asking to give a yelp, is this unreasonable.

MFC supporters annoy me more than the enemy.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Couldn't agree more Ron.

I understand the frustration from some supporters, particularly after a promising start to the year, but I am 100% behind Roos and his belief that we will be in such a better place come the end of 2016.

How can you be so confident of his tenure given we are 29 games in out of 66, and we have had two of our three preseasons/trade-draft periods already.. yet the exposed form in four games this year has been horrific. As others have already stated, it is the fact that we do not seem to have turned any corner in terms of EFFORT, SPIRIT, HEART whatever you want to call it. I hope you are right obviously, but the questions raised in this thread are certainly worthy of being asked.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Dunn, Jetta, Mcdonald, N.jones, Tyson, Viney, [Pedersen], Kent have all improved significantly as players and the young talent bought in since are progressing well

[Ted Lasso 18,383]

Dunn, Jetta, Mcdonald, N.jones, Tyson, Viney, [Pedersen], Kent have all improved significantly as players and the young talent bought in since are progressing well

Well done Curry

Dunn: went from barely able to establish a spot in the best 22 to vice captain

Jetta: went from Delisted to imo in our most important 10 players

N.Jones: finished last year averaging 28 disposals a game and stiff not to be All Australian

Tyson: went from in and out of the team at the Giants to averaging 24 touches and a goal a game inc 14 brownlow votes

Pederson: went from a spud who didn't look AFL standard to a guy who can come in and play a role for the team.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Well done Curry

Dunn: went from barely able to establish a spot in the best 22 to vice captain

Jetta: went from Delisted to imo in our most important 10 players

N.Jones: finished last year averaging 28 disposals a game and stiff not to be All Australian

Tyson: went from in and out of the team at the Giants to averaging 24 touches and a goal a game inc 14 brownlow votes

[Pedersen]: went from a spud who didn't look AFL standard to a guy who can come in and play a role for the team.

you're talking about 2014, in 2015 precisely zero of those things are true. Why?

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

well actually since he took over he has increased our win ratio by 50% increased our % by 30% taken us from the worst defensive team in the comp to top 8 and seen several individuals take their game to new levels despite current form, based on the body of work over the past 18 months

Dunn, Jetta, Mcdonald, N.jones, Tyson, Viney, [Pedersen], Kent have all improved significantly as players and the young talent bought in since are progressing well

we have also lost just one game by 100 points or more in the past 18 months, and only 2 by 80 or more, compared to more than ten of those losses in the previous 18 months

but hey, who wants to let the truth get in the way of a good story?

is the 50% win increase 4 wins in 1st season, equalled by Neeld 1st season,

is the % increase 30% Roos 1st season 68% Neeld 67% 1st season.

Would you not expect natural improvement by some players just by playing more games

Defence powers-uncompetative after the bye last year, 13 straight goals by GWS, 105 loss by a weak Hawthorn

you story & stats are warm & fuzzy, then i watch the games

[Adam The God 28,799]

Even though I think jnrmac's initial post was very good and well reasoned, I hate this thread.

We are extremely fortunate to have Paul Roos at this club. He is an excellent coach.

In fact, he's even more than that.

For the record, I love having Paul Roos as coach.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,487]

There are two simple things we haven't done for 10 years.

1. Shepherd

2. Run without the ball

Staggers me that this hasn't been rectified by any of the coaches we've had in that time. Our other problem has been lack of spirit, but a few shepherds and a bit of a run on and that will grow.

It's not complicated. Shepherd for your teammates, and keep moving when you don't have the ball.

The thing is, we rarely did those two things during the Daniher era either. Not much TEAMwork at the MFC for quite some time.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

you're talking about 2014, in 2015 precisely zero of those things are true. Why?

would any of the people who liked SPR's post like to answer this response please

how about you dazzle? prove you didn't like it solely because it is disagreeing with me. Pathetic.

[dazzledavey36 52,153]

would any of the people who liked SPR's post like to answer this response please

how about you dazzle? prove you didn't like it solely because it is disagreeing with me. Pathetic.

I love it how you have a crush on me.

Its cute

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I love it how you have a crush on me.

Its cute

yeah thats what I thought

zero answers

zero substance

[dazzledavey36 52,153]

yeah thats what I thought

zero answers

zero substance

He is right but.. thats why i liked it because i agreed with what he said. Those players he has highlighted have all improved considering how far they have come from. Put Jeff Garlett in that category.

I do get a laugh though how you get soo edgy and angry over me liking a post that goes against your arguement. That is seriously some high school petty stuff.

Tell me, you surely must lose sleep over this?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

He is right but.. thats why i liked it because i agreed with what he said. Those players he has highlighted have all improved considering how far they have come from. Put Jeff Garlett in that category.

I do get a laugh though how you get soo edgy and angry over me liking a post that goes against your arguement. That is seriously some high school petty stuff.

Tell me, you surely must lose sleep over this?

I said it was true last year but not this year. That is very plainly written.

Try again

[Je Roos Salem 661]

It feels like there's been a drop off in effort this year and it feels like we no longer have a strong core that Jones, Tyson, Vince and Dunn provided us last year. More players are out of form and our side doesn't look secure. I felt we were more mentally resilient last year and less susceptible to the huge drop offs during games that we've seen.

However, we are still 2-5 and have played 3 of the top sides in 3 weeks.

Next 2 weeks will be telling, for most of last year and probably the preseason many suggested we are on the same level/even better than the Dogs. The Dogs are foreign to the G but easily accounted for the Tigers there a few weeks ago.

If we get thumped by the Dogs it represents a huge backwards step for us, as well as if we don't fight the game out against Port as we matched up with them very well last year.

[dazzledavey36 52,153]

I said it was true last year but not this year. That is very plainly written.

Try again

Salem Garlett Mcdonald Hogan (leading contested marks in the AFL) Brayshaw (leading the club in tackles) Vandenberg (missed most of the pre season due to shoulder injury)

If it wasn't for injury i would have nearly put Jack Viney in there aswell. His round 1 game was the best game he had ever played for this club.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Salem Garlett Mcdonald Hogan (leading contested marks in the AFL) Brayshaw (leading the club in tackles) Vandenberg (missed most of the pre season due to shoulder injury)

If it wasn't for injury i would have nearly put Jack Viney in there aswell. His round 1 game was the best game he had ever played for this club.

Did Viney have a setback? Listed at 2-3 now?

[rjay 24,475]

The big difference is that the Doggies have been recruiting quality mids for years while we have been stockpiling fairly average talls and have wasted a huge number of picks on mids who never made it. They can afford to play a game that relies on winning a contested ball in the midfield, while when we do that we get smashed. Repairing the damage to our midfield has been Roos' goal from the start, and it's still going on. What we've seen over the last few weeks is that we are still well behind the good teams when it comes to our midfield stocks.

The big difference I think is that they were playing prelim finals, they were a top 4 team up and to 2010. They still have players from those teams playing and leading the way.

The Saints are in a similar position to the Doggies but played off in GF's and then bowed out of finals in 2011.

Both of these teams had enough senior players of quality on their lists to trade out and do deals to bring in more kids whilst still having good leaders in place to educate and show the way.

Our lack of leadership in all parts of the club up until PJ took over and on ground still has meant a fair degree of our recruiting focus has had to be on bringing in older players who could show some leadership. Some of these like Cross, 'H' and Bernie have been good for us...others have been pretty much disasters.

It is yet to be seen whether the approaches taken by the Saints and Dogs will work longer term but at present they seem ahead of us after a much shorter rebuild.

Our club has been through a disastrous period of mismanagement and to expect Roos to turn it around in quick time is asking a lot. I guess we all expected to see better effort and results. I think all this shows is how far back we really were.

[TGR 1,367]

Ok this is not a thread to say we should have picked Beveridge over Roos but in light of the extraordinary tactics of the Bulldogs I think there are fair questions to ask of our coaching staff.

For those that didn't see it the Bulldogs nearly pulled off an incredible victory over Freo by conceding the ruck dual. Freo won the hitouts 69 to 13. They used Goodes and others as a ruck and loaded their fwd line with talls and effectively played a loose man in defence. It was very unconventional thinking. And it nearly won them the game as they were level with a few minutes to go.

Which brings me to Roos and the Melbourne coaching staff.

Melbourne were never going to be able to play the way they wanted to against a team like Hawthorn. They are tough, well drilled and play a team zone game (‘Our back six are there to protect the goals’). We were well below our best 22 and coming off two bruising encounters with the Swans and Freo.

We have been smashed by Hawthorn on the previous 11 occasions. Mitchell, Roughead and Hale in particular kill us (as do Lewis and Hodge when they rare playing).

So what did we do that was different. How did we go about playing against a team that performs like this? What did we do to plan for what was predictable at the outset. Did we plan to smash Mitchell? Did we plan to double team Roughhead? Did we do any planning at all?

Nup. What we got was same old same old. I could have written the script a month ago and been bang on.

We must be the easiest team in the league to play against – even Carlton and GC are as inept as us. Not only do we do the same stuff week in week out but we have no leaders other than Jones and TMac who can stand up and win their position against their opponent. We don’t do the basics right - like have a tall on the back line to kill a ball that comes in for goal – or man up when the opposition has the ball, or hit targets from 20m away, or run and spread when we have the ball. How about we even stick a few tackles? FFs we are second to the ball often enough. Tackling is all about intent and desire. Yes there is technique but it’s largely the first two. Brayshaw has it in spades and he is a six gamer.

Words can’t describe how disillusioned I am with this football club. They are spineless and heartless. My kids have given up (‘why would you want to follow that bunch of losers Dad’) and I don’t blame them. I would too if I could.

But I don’t have to watch the crap they dish up every week and I won’t be for some time. They can come back to me when they have won two or heaven forbid three in a row and have some semblance of personal pride and our club isn’t the laughing stock of the competition.

What would Luke Hodge do with Jack Watts? What would Joel Selwood do with Jeremy Howe? Why do our players think it is acceptable to play 5m away from their man when we don’t have the ball? Why can’t they ‘zone’ like every other team zones. There are so many questions because we are so inept. Basic questions that go to the heart of simple football. Keep the ball from the opposition and give it to one of your own players. Where is the simple pride in performance? Where is the desire to beat your opponent? Where is the desire to take frustrations out by driving your opponents head into the turf when you tackle him?

So what re the coaching staff doing? Telling their players to 'forget it' and 'we won't learn anything from reviewing that'. Really??

Why is it that Luke Beveridge and even Alan Richardson can get their teams playing exciting inspiring football? Who picked that at teh start of the season?? Why can’t Melbourneplay like that? Is it because we as supporters don’t demand it? Is it because the administration of the club doesn’t demand it? Is it because of the lack of on-field leadership at the club? Is it because the coaches are stuck in a time warp. The coaching staff need a serious rocket up their collective backsides. They need to challenge each every play to do one task. Beat their man. They are being shown up by two rookie coaches. Big time.

I don’t what the answers are but I know what I see every week. I can’t take this team stuffing up my weekends any more. I have better things to do in life. Things that are actually enjoyable.

I actually like this post/thread.

Yes, a coach should build a culture and empower players etc... like Roos is doing.

But a coach also has the power to be the 19th man on the field. Loved Beveridge's guts to try something different. An extra midfielder (and no ruckman) in the contest against Sandilands was something I raised with Darren Crocker at the conference earlier this year. He was like a rabbit in headlights for a few seconds, but then he saw the silver lining on my grey cloud.

Roos has never been radical and risk taking. His moves are never early. (Garlett in the guts was good but late in the past 2 weeks).

It will be a sad day when Roos leaves the building, and he is a big believer in the basics, but you would love a bit of flair and unpredictability in his coaching sometimes.

Having said that, we will never be a better bet against the dogs this weekend. Macca has the intel; and their rucks are as rucked as ours.

[What 18,810]

Brayshaw (leading the club in tackles)

I had to look that up to see that it was correct, and yes it is. Kid is a machine.

[Ted Lasso 18,383]

would any of the people who liked SPR's post like to answer this response please

how about you dazzle? prove you didn't like it solely because it is disagreeing with me. Pathetic.

Nathan Jones and Dom Tyson are carrying injuries, or at least have been

Lynden Dunn is down on form but is still a good leader and easily best 22

Nev Jetta started the year well before injury

and Pederson played probably his best game for the club on the weekend, but the addition of Hogan to the rotations has pushed him back in the pecking order

I don't believe any of these players have genuinely gone backwards, Tyson and Dunn to me have both had a drop off in form based on 2014 but Dunn could have been All Australian, and Tyson was playing increadible footy considering his age/experience, i think they'll recapture that, i know Dom is playing through a bit of pain relating to his knee, and is a bit down on form and a little fumbly because of that.

[dazzledavey36 52,153]

Nathan Jones and Dom Tyson are carrying injuries, or at least have been

Lynden Dunn is down on form but is still a good leader and easily best 22

Nev Jetta started the year well before injury

and [Pedersen] played probably his best game for the club on the weekend, but the addition of Hogan to the rotations has pushed him back in the pecking order

I don't believe any of these players have genuinely gone backwards, Tyson and Dunn to me have both had a drop off in form based on 2014 but Dunn could have been All Australian, and Tyson was playing increadible footy considering his age/experience, i think they'll recapture that, i know Dom is playing through a bit of pain relating to his knee, and is a bit down on form and a little fumbly because of that.

Lets not forget Tyson is not even pass the 50 game mark. At 41 games i would have thought the club would be very happy the way he is tracking. I certainly am for sure.

Kid has enormous upside.

[Ted Lasso 18,383]

Lets not forget Tyson is not even pass the 50 game mark. At 41 games i would have thought the club would be very happy the way he is tracking. I certainly am for sure.

Kid has enormous upside.

Totally agree, i see Tyson as a player i expect to become a genuine A grader for us, and even though he has started the year slowly he has still been okay this year imo, i certainly would have him in the first dozen picked each week

[Adam The God 28,799]

It feels like there's been a drop off in effort this year and it feels like we no longer have a strong core that Jones, Tyson, Vince and Dunn provided us last year. More players are out of form and our side doesn't look secure. I felt we were more mentally resilient last year and less susceptible to the huge drop offs during games that we've seen.

However, we are still 2-5 and have played 3 of the top sides in 3 weeks.

Next 2 weeks will be telling, for most of last year and probably the preseason many suggested we are on the same level/even better than the Dogs. The Dogs are foreign to the G but easily accounted for the Tigers there a few weeks ago.

If we get thumped by the Dogs it represents a huge backwards step for us, as well as if we don't fight the game out against Port as we matched up with them very well last year.

Some people seem to be talking about us as if we were a finals side last year. We won 4 games for the ENTIRE year. We've already won two. So after 7 rounds, we've already won half as many as the entirety of last season. We're clearly better this year, but people can't see the forest for the trees, because we've had three incredibly difficult tasks in a row.

Further, if we get thumped by the Dogs and Port, but then win five in a row, where does that leave us? I don't think you can examine the season like that. Perhaps, at the end of the year, but not now.

[mrtwister 652]

My only concern is that by the time this group learns how to win footy games, the game will have evolved into something else and we're back to square one.