I think both the Doggies and the Saints have better lists than us. We might not like to believe this but that is probably the case. We certainly have some exciting new players i.e. Hogan, Salem, Viney ,Kent, Vander, Frost and others.

i also believe these clubs coaches, coach to win for today. For me Roos and too many others before him at Melbourne are always talking about teaching the players how too play etc bla bla bla. We've got to develop the players. Some of our more experienced players have heard this talk all their careers and so don't even think about winning its just about development.

Our players and team don't go out to win very often so we rarely do. I hope Goodwin is different.

Bring back Swooper

The big difference I think is that they were playing prelim finals, they were a top 4 team up and to 2010. They still have players from those teams playing and leading the way.

The Saints are in a similar position to the Doggies but played off in GF's and then bowed out of finals in 2011.

Both of these teams had enough senior players of quality on their lists to trade out and do deals to bring in more kids whilst still having good leaders in place to educate and show the way.

No-one had the Saints and the Dogs above the bottom two on the ladder in 2015. The dogs were in a world of pain losing their captain, CEO and Coach. The club was fractured. The Saints list was rogered.

Ye the dogs and Saints both play with passion, pride, effort and persistence. Essendon throughout the whole drug saga have played unbelievably well. Other clubs don't fall in the abyss that we fall into. The effort rarely drops off to our standard and they all have players who get the pill 30 times a match. WHERE ARE OUR PLAYERS THAT DO THIS WEEK IN WEEK OUT????

We have not had one player, not one get 30 possessions so far this year. Why not?

We are ranked;

18th for kicks

18th for handballs

18th for pts per game

I don't have the stats for uncontested possessions but that is a fair indication of running. We don't run anywhere near hard enough, I watch closely when we don't have the ball and its easy to see who can't be arzzed to pick up an opponent or run to help out.

We keep doing the same stuff and getting the same result. SOmething has to give,

Edited May 18, 201510 yr by jnrmac

My only concern is that by the time this group learns how to win footy games, the game will have evolved into something else and we're back to square one.

Roos is teaching us to win the contested and uncontested possessions. These are two things that will never change.

Edited May 18, 201510 yr by AdamFarr

Roos is teaching us to win the contested and uncontested possessions. These are two things that will never change.

He needs to start teaching them to win.

Roos is teaching us to win the contested and uncontested possessions. These are two things that will never change.

I just hope what they do with them equates to winning. Let's face it, the skills of kicking and hand passing never change either but they don't equate to winning either.

I just hope what they do with them equates to winning. Let's face it, the skills of kicking and hand passing never change either but they don't equate to winning either.

If we had players with better skill and they had the desire to win contested and uncontested possessions, the winning would take care of itself.

If we had players with better skill and they had the desire to win contested and uncontested possessions, the winning would take care of itself.

Can't wait

This is a [censored] thread but the only thing I'd like to add is that anyone claiming there has been no substantial improvement from the Neeld era (particularly 2013) is full of it and has the memory of a goldfish.

Take a look for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Melbourne_Football_Club_season

I look forward to Roos being a genius again when we beat the Bulldogs.

Edited May 18, 201510 yr by Sylvia Saint

This is a [censored] thread

Why? Legitimate question asked in the OP.

Why? Legitimate question asked in the OP.

Sorry mate, I was referring more to some of the replies in the thread. Particularly on page one.

The hysteria over Roos is both expected and depressing. It's as if the 'criticise Roos' lid if off, and people are taking full advantage. I wasn't intending on doing this, but lets quickly go through the list here and maybe it'll explain why we had a few terrible weeks against the three Premiership favourites.

#1 - Young star, just needs to stay fit.

#2 - A Grade player in terrible form.

#3 - Seriously promising youngster.

#4 - Big fan, but he needs to be traded to get a role player in.

#5 - See #4.

#6 - Neeld paid for him, and calling him average is an insult to average players.

#7 - Another good young player who enjoyed a good start to the year before a broken leg. We missed his tagging jobs, with Vince doing them atm.

#8 - Took a punt for free, and it's not working out. When you remember that he cost a pick in the 30s, you realise it isn't so bad.

#9 - Rooted foot, lets see if he gets back.

#10 - Young gun, tackling machine, a bit green.

#11 - They're trying to give him a future, but is he trying?

#12 - Excellent young player in the worst form of his career. Genuinely important to the sides dynamic and will hopefully be up and about soon.

#13 - Spud, delist. Bizarre to play him as sub vs Freo.

#14 - Despite 2014 form, nothing more than an ordinary full back who leaks a few goals a game. Good leader though.

#15 - Could be a good young player, brought in for lack of depth.

#16 - Will be a 10 year player, we miss his intensity and it's an indictment on his team mates that they don't play the right way.

#17 - Who knows? Will hopefully develop into a good FB but shouldn't have been playing the fwd/ruck role ahead of Pedersen.

#18 - Stalwart who is finding form again in our losing period. Great acquisition.

#19 - Took a punt, and who knows if it's working out. Cost us nothing, and is a better shot at making it than MJones, Bail etc.

#20 - Roos needs to establish a position for him, though he's playing well right now.

#21 - Solid roleplayer, should expect an extension but hopefully nothing more than depth after this year.

#22 - See Newton.

#23 - Shouldn't be tagging and we'll see why when we get his forward run back with the return of Viney. Great acquisition.

#24 - Second year blues.

#25 - Excellence personified. Would be interested in trying him at CHF.

#26 - Should be a very good player if all goes to plan with his recovery.

#27 - See Newton and Michie, though he may be one too many to carry in place of a proven option.

#28 - Young developing KPD, who knows?

#29 - Prime delist candidate, not sure why we wanted an unproven kid on the main list. A strike against Roos/Taylor when more experienced options were available, and better rookies were picked.

#30 - First year draftee - who knows?

#31 - Regressed significantly and will probably be traded.

#36 - The goalsneak we needed. Here's hoping he stays out of trouble.

#37 - Not as convinced as some others. Can take a good mark and get decent possession numbers, but does he really add enough to be a member of the best 22? Reminds me of 2013 Matt Jones.

#38 - See Watts, Toumpas. One foot out the door IMO, but Roos should recognise that he is a better forward and thus questioning his adaptability as coach is fair here.

#39 - Career revived under Roos. Excellent player.

#40 - Not his fault he's old, he should be playing against the better sides at least.

#42 - Delist this spud. If there's one good thing to come from the last three weeks is that we know he's not up to it.

#44 - List clogger.

#45 - List clogger on a longer contract.

#46 - List clogger.

#48 - Always mystified me why he doesn't get a gig at full forward, and it continues to do so as he lines up at CHB at Casey. More productive than Dawes and can actually ruck.

The depth is pathetic, and even the bottom parts of our 22 being injured has us playing with Neeld-era spuds and means we've had to shoe horn players into unfamiliar and individually effective but team unproductive roles.

Edited May 18, 201510 yr by Pirlo

Some people seem to be talking about us as if we were a finals side last year. We won 4 games for the ENTIRE year. We've already won two. So after 7 rounds, we've already won half as many as the entirety of last season. We're clearly better this year, but people can't see the forest for the trees, because we've had three incredibly difficult tasks in a row.

Further, if we get thumped by the Dogs and Port, but then win five in a row, where does that leave us? I don't think you can examine the season like that. Perhaps, at the end of the year, but not now.

We didn't show up for 3 quarters V Sydney and looked lost out there V a weakened Hawthorn side. This year, we have Hogan looking great, McDonald is one of the best defenders in the league, and Brayshaw looks capable. That's about where our positives end. What's wrong with examining our season to date? Maybe you should wait until the year's done until you justify as being 'clearly better'

My only concern is that by the time this group learns how to win footy games, the game will have evolved into something else and we're back to square one.

That depends on your interpretation of how the game is being played. My worry with Neeld was always that he wanted to bring 2010 Collingwood's game plan into 2012 and beyond when it was losing relevance to the precision and brute force of Hawthorn and Sydney.

In my eyes, our game plan under Roos relies on the basics of footy rather than anything specific. If Goodwin is a decent coach with a vision, he will have a very adaptable list.

We didn't show up for 3 quarters V Sydney and looked lost out there V a weakened Hawthorn side. This year, we have Hogan looking great, McDonald is one of the best defenders in the league, and Brayshaw looks capable. That's about where our positives end. What's wrong with examining our season to date? Maybe you should wait until the year's done until you justify as being 'clearly better'

Salem looks like a killer kid, Kent and Viney both started the season very well before going down. Garland has bounced back, Jetta was continuing his resurgence. On a macabre side, we're figuring out where players like Watts, Toumpas etc. stand. This was never going to be a great season, I don't know where people got their sense of entitlement from.

We didn't show up for 3 quarters V Sydney and looked lost out there V a weakened Hawthorn side. This year, we have Hogan looking great, McDonald is one of the best defenders in the league, and Brayshaw looks capable. That's about where our positives end. What's wrong with examining our season to date? Maybe you should wait until the year's done until you justify as being 'clearly better'

We've played some disciplined, team football during portions of this season. We did that once or twice last year (Adelaide last year being the prime example). We won our first 4 or 5 first quarters for the season across Rounds 4 to 5. You couldn't say that about last year.

There's not necessarily a problem with examining our season to date, but it's how you measure this that is important.

I think we went too conservative after Garland and Salem shanked a couple of kicks in the corridor early that cost us goals, kicking to the boundary simply didn't help us given the ruckwork of Spencer/form of our onballers. That said, if Hogan were in some of those packs it could be a different story

This was never going to be a great season, I don't know where people got their sense of entitlement from.

Years spent in the doldrums, I believe. It's understandable, but pragmatism has to come in somewhere.

I think we went too conservative after Garland and Salem shanked a couple of kicks in the corridor early that cost us goals, kicking to the boundary simply didn't help us given the ruckwork of Spencer/form of our onballers. That said, if Hogan were in some of those packs it could be a different story

I agree, but our players weren't working hard enough to present options to our guys. They went into their shells.

Salem looks like a killer kid, Kent and Viney both started the season very well before going down. Garland has bounced back, Jetta was continuing his resurgence. On a macabre side, we're figuring out where players like Watts, Toumpas etc. stand. This was never going to be a great season, I don't know where people got their sense of entitlement from.

PJ said we're aiming to playing finals in 2016. That definitely puts a certain level of expectation on this year

PJ said we're aiming to playing finals in 2016. That definitely puts a certain level of expectation on this year

That rise can happen quickly though. Just look at GWS.

I agree, but our players weren't working hard enough to present options to our guys. They went into their shells.

Our communication needs to improve tremendously. I notice our defenders often huddle up and speak to one another, but someone needs to be screaming at these players to present around the ground. Our standards might not have been high under Bailey, but Neeld's restructuring was toxic to the joy within the playing group. We simply didn't have the personnel to execute his vision. Now we apparently STILL don't have the personnel in Roos' second year, despite our signings, and guys are still second guessing themselves and not working hard enough. Now that's annoying.

Take a look for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Melbourne_Football_Club_season

Those first 3 rounds... christ

Those first 3 rounds... christ

Neeld was sacked after Round 11. We were so bad then that we virtually celebrated Richmond beating us by 'only' 34 points as a win.

A couple of poor performances and some are now saying Roos has performed no better than Neeld. GTFO.

Neeld was sacked after Round 11. We were so bad then that we virtually celebrated Richmond beating us by 'only' 34 points as a win.

A couple of poor performances and some are now saying Roos has performed no better than Neeld. GTFO.

Many fans cheered us off after the 94 point West Coast loss. We were leading 50-41 in the first half of that. Then the week after we blitzed GWS with 12 goals in the last quarter. That was a strange couple of weeks

well actually since he took over he has increased our win ratio by 50% increased our % by 30% taken us from the worst defensive team in the comp to top 8 and seen several individuals take their game to new levels despite current form, based on the body of work over the past 18 months

Dunn, Jetta, Mcdonald, N.jones, Tyson, Viney, [Pedersen], Kent have all improved significantly as players and the young talent bought in since are progressing well

we have also lost just one game by 100 points or more in the past 18 months, and only 2 by 80 or more, compared to more than ten of those losses in the previous 18 months

but hey, who wants to let the truth get in the way of a good story?

Gee I didnt realise we were going so well. So all is ok and we are tracking well .Thats such a relief!