POST MATCH DISCUSSION - ROUND 2, 2015

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Positives to come out of the game.

1. It revealed that we still desperately need more class/speed in the midfield; and

2. Shiel is absolutely gun.

Why is '2' a positive? Well, it highlighted to the MFC how much we need him and, relevantly, he is out of contract at the end of the year.

Get Aish too and we have a midfield.

[jackaub 1,402]

See I dispute this point - and it is not through the rearview mirror that I dispute it.. at half time I said to the people I was with that we were lucky GWS were such a bloody awful side, because we ourselves were playing bad footy and only through being out-carped by our opponent were we in front. I said if we were a decent team we would have been 10-12 goals up at half time. Of course GWS got their act together at half time and made our effort and talent look embarrassingly bad. My point was is that I didn't feel like we went to sleep at half time, but we never really turned up at all.

I agree with this after watching the replay twice We didnt show up on the day simple as that. I really tried to understand what happened we were shyite at the ball from the first bounce GWS were just a little worse than we were but started playing better footy about 12 minutes into the second quarter

Either the team was crook or sore but they appeared to lack energy from the start of the game

Edited April 14, 2015 by jackaub

[Bang Bang Bang 5,455]

Would also love to hear some opinion on our trading of picks for Tyson and Salem as opposed to Bontempelli and say a Merrett as a pick in the twenties.

Tyson was 2nd in our B&F last year at 21 years of age. Salem was one of our best in the pre season and on the weekend at 20 years of age.

How on earth would we have landed Bontempelli and Merrett instead? We were never taking Bont at 2.

It's easy to be a hindsight hero.

[monoccular 16,062]

I agree with this after watching the replay twice We didnt show up on the day simple as that. I really tried to understand what happened we were shyite at the ball from the first bounce GWS were just a little worse than we were but started playing better footy about 12 minutes into the second quarter

Either the team was crook or sore but they appeared to lack energy from the start of the game

I may have mentioned before but I was hoping to hear the there was gastro or food poisoning or flu in the camp

Sadly according to the coach it was the usual lack of effort and or poor coaching

[dpositive 1,547]

I agree with this after watching the replay twice We didnt show up on the day simple as that. I really tried to understand what happened we were shyite at the ball from the first bounce GWS were just a little worse than we were but started playing better footy about 12 minutes into the second quarter

Either the team was crook or sore but they appeared to lack energy from the start of the game

Was at the ground

They looked all right during the warm up etc and while playing poorly fumbling. dropping marks, overrunning etc were able to lead as GWS were worse.

Seemed almost over confident and spent it before they had it .

Then when GWS improved they started to get desperate and wnet up for marks together resulkting in spillage which the GWS picked up and delivered to the free player.

Structures and teamwork disappeared and individuals wanted to wrest the game back and committed similar errors due to over desperation.

There was effort there was desire but it was all misplaced or misdirected

[AzzKikA 2,369]

Was at the ground

They looked all right during the warm up etc and while playing poorly fumbling. dropping marks, overrunning etc were able to lead as GWS were worse.

Seemed almost over confident and spent it before they had it .

Then when GWS improved they started to get desperate and wnet up for marks together resulkting in spillage which the GWS picked up and delivered to the free player.

Structures and teamwork disappeared and individuals wanted to wrest the game back and committed similar errors due to over desperation.

There was effort there was desire but it was all misplaced or misdirected

That's a nice insight dpositive. And one that means a lot more than the players didn't try.

[dpositive 1,547]

That's a nice insight dpositive. And one that means a lot more than the players didn't try.

Thanks Azz. I have written a few posts trying to purge myself of the disappointment while trying to put my finger on what went wrong.

Still not sure I've got it but I am starting to feel better.

We were in the stand on the outer wing and play was congested nearly all day and either in front of us or on the other side of the ground. In the first quarter we did spread but there were many times when there was none in the forward of the centre when we got possesion to attack later they dropped one back but the number of times they had two or three behind and well behind the game i lost count. Watts isolated himself a lot but usually to stop their run rather than being an attacking option but GWS just played down the opposite side of the ground.

Cannot believe the number of times I saw us compete with each other and if the ball dropped into one of our hands we just ran into a pack of GWS players .Lumumba was a prime example. Plenty of effort but no just not in the right way

[48 Year Now 48]

Tyson was 2nd in our B&F last year at 21 years of age. Salem was one of our best in the pre season and on the weekend at 20 years of age.

How on earth would we have landed Bontempelli and Merrett instead? We were never taking Bont at 2.

It's easy to be a hindsight hero.

Hindsight hero, nothing to do with it, if you cant read its not my fault. I asked for other peoples opinions. So now I will assess yours. The question should have been why the hell were we not looking at Bontepelli. Surely that part of the recruiters due dilligence. As for 2nd best in the BF at the Demons and good form in preseason, says more about you than then. Beyond that thanks for your kind acceptance to the group.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

oh great, another 'pick any good player from any draft and ask we why we didn't select them' discussion

these are always logical and fruitful

James Hird went at pick 64 WTF Prendergrast WTF

[M C 221]

Hindsight hero, nothing to do with it, if you cant read its not my fault. I asked for other peoples opinions. So now I will assess yours. The question should have been why the hell were we not looking at Bontepelli. Surely that part of the recruiters due dilligence. As for 2nd best in the BF at the Demons and good form in preseason, says more about you than then. Beyond that thanks for your kind acceptance to the group.

Hindsight has everything to do with it

You're an idiot if you think bringing in Salem and Tyson was a bad call

[48 Year Now 48]

Hindsight has everything to do with it

You're an idiot if you think bringing in Salem and Tyson was a bad call

No one said it was a bad idea to draft tyson and Salem MC, just interested in opinions, although I am not particularly interested in yours. Strangely in business or any other organisation worth two bob its not called hindsight hero its called reviewing the business and seeking continuos improvement so you dont continue to make the wrong calls over and over again. I will just wait, And track the four biys progress, I have time on my side, I have waited 51 years since our last flag.

[Nasher 33,047]

Hindsight hero, nothing to do with it, if you cant read its not my fault. I asked for other peoples opinions. So now I will assess yours. The question should have been why the hell were we not looking at Bontepelli. Surely that part of the recruiters due dilligence. As for 2nd best in the BF at the Demons and good form in preseason, says more about you than then. Beyond that thanks for your kind acceptance to the group.

Bontempelli went pretty much where concensus said. Were GWS and St. Kilda negligent, too? Rhetorical question - I think this is a great case of the art of recruiting rather than the science. It think rather than "due dilligence", it's more just a case of rating him less than others.

Personally I'm stoked with the outcome we got anyway, of two players in Tyson and Salem. There's still an excellent chance both will be A graders - even if they're both the rung below Bontempelli, this is still a fantastic outcome from the trade in my opinion.

[Wunders 385]

Bontempelli went pretty much where concensus said. Were GWS and St. Kilda negligent, too? Rhetorical question - I think this is a great case of the art of recruiting rather than the science. It think rather than "due dilligence", it's more just a case of rating him less than others.

Personally I'm stoked with the outcome we got anyway, of two players in Tyson and Salem. There's still an excellent chance both will be A graders - even if they're both the rung below Bontempelli, this is still a fantastic outcome from the trade in my opinion.

Yep agreed, and really Tyson needs to work on his tackling and kicking efficiency (can kick for goals really well) and Salem just on his ability to accumulate the ball when playing midfield. Apart from that both have achieved Roosies mandate of increasing the amount of talent we get in for draft picks

[What 18,810]

To change subject a little but, I was excited when Jesse took that mark on 50 at the end of the 1st quarter and decided to have a shot.

Reason being I have never seen him kick a long goal before and I still have no idea if he can even make the distance from 50 metres since he shanked that attempt on the weekend.

has anyone seen him roost a goal from 50+ metres at VFL level? Just curious.

[chook fowler 18,226]

Bontempelli went pretty much where concensus said. Were GWS and St. Kilda negligent, too? Rhetorical question - I think this is a great case of the art of recruiting rather than the science. It think rather than "due dilligence", it's more just a case of rating him less than others.

Personally I'm stoked with the outcome we got anyway, of two players in Tyson and Salem. There's still an excellent chance both will be A graders - even if they're both the rung below Bontempelli, this is still a fantastic outcome from the trade in my opinion.

There is an opinion that McCartney had a lot to do with the rapid development of Bontempelli.

macca has only been at our club since February- I think he will do very nicely with our group of young mids given a bit more time.

I am rapt with the progress of Viney and Salem this year. Hopefully he will get into the ear of Toump and get him going as well.

[Dwight Schrute 16,751]

We have been chasing Dylan Shiel hard over multiple seasons, fair chance we go again at seasons end

[beelzebub 22,225]

I for one am VERY VERY interested in the McCartney effect.

itll take a while I know.

In some ways hes just as...if... as much as Roos an inspired appointment.

I expect Goodwin to invigorate the team with a 'merciless attack' attitude.

but, surprisingly, still...it's all about potential

Im so sick of potential

[Gorgoroth 12,319]

Let's hope Macca can teach us to tackle like the bullies can.

He got them tackling really well last year and they have taken to a new level this year.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

That's a nice insight dpositive. And one that means a lot more than the players didn't try.

Well I am not sure it is great news. I have read similar reports but not watched the video so I wouldn't know but this info indicates we have a bunch of dumb footballers to add to their other skill, fitness and mental deficiencies. I mean at suburban level you learn to not all attack every ball! One up, the others down, for the high ball, one in to tackle the others assist but keep out to intercept the handball release. Not always possible to implement but at AFL level it should happen more often than not.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Well I am not sure it is great news. I have read similar reports but not watched the video so I wouldn't know but this info indicates we have a bunch of dumb footballers to add to their other skill, fitness and mental deficiencies. I mean at suburban level you learn to not all attack every ball! One up, the others down, for the high ball, one in to tackle the others assist but keep out to intercept the handball release. Not always possible to implement but at AFL level it should happen more often than not.

shhh...heresy surely !!!

[PaulRB 5,920]

In retrospect it result should not have been a surprise.

GWS are stocked up with talent in exactly the area of the field where we have least, the midfield.

Unfortunately it's also the area where we are weakest, not just in terms of player talent, but in cohesion and games played together. Roo's mentioned it on 360, that the players themselves (many new to the club) aren't sure who their best and most experienced players in the middle are, who could stand up to GWS's midfield surge...

Newton, Garlett, Lamumba, Brayshaw and VandenBerg were playing their SECOND competitive game together and with the other MFC midfielders.

Up against a GWS midfield group that have literally lived together for the past 2 or 3 years and would be close to 50 games together.

As always we want instant success (and we deserve it), but it aint going to arrive overnight, these boys need time to gel and learn to play as a midfield group under intense and constant pressure, they don't call it the "boiler room" for nothing.

[chook fowler 18,226]

I would like to know the basis for the statement we have a group of dumb footballers. Most are young and need to develop good habits and an understanding of the game. Our development program with Macca, Goodwin and Plapp hasn't really got off the ground yet.

As much as we hate it we are some time away from being competitive. There is a lot of teeth gnashing for a horrible second half last week. I think that shows our older players are not good enough leaders and that will be addressed at some point.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

I would like to know the basis for the statement we have a group of dumb footballers. Most are young and need to develop good habits and an understanding of the game. Our development program with Macca, Goodwin and Plapp hasn't really got off the ground yet.

As much as we hate it we are some time away from being competitive. There is a lot of teeth gnashing for a horrible second half last week. I think that shows our older players are not good enough leaders and that will be addressed at some point.

Chook I made the statement about dumb footballers based on a number of eyewitness posts on this thread from those who unfortunately witnessed our second half effort. There is a common theme of our players not setting up correctly at ball ups, defenders all flying for a mark, leaving no crumbers or midfielders all going in to tackle the opposition guy in possession while he releases the ball over the top to the players you left to tackle. It is a worry to me. Yes they are young but you should have learnt these basics much earlier, in under age footy. You shouldn't need someone like Roosey to point out the bleeding obvious. It sounds like dumb footy to me in the modern game.

[chook fowler 18,226]

Still think we need a few more rounds before judgements can be made.

Of course, depressingly, you could be right. I prefer to hang on to a glimmer of hope - I guess I believe all the right structures are in place and eventually they will bear fruit.

Mind you it may be my medication talking.

[Demon trucker 1,749]

Game of two half lets focus on the first half,so far we have played six good qtr two bad ones

.