POST MATCH DISCUSSION - ROUND 2, 2015

[beelzebub 22,225]

Here's who I would be looking to turn over at seasons end

Watts (trade) must have some currency lets just cash in these chips already

Garland (free agent) let him go, take whatever pick we get for him, he's too inconsistent

Cross (retire) old man time catches up with everyone eventually

Grimes (trade) try to find a vandenBerg type with better skills and a stronger body with the low pick we'll get for him

Howe (trade) if he can attract a late first rounder like was rumoured last offseason that would have to be a win for us

McKenzie (delist)

Gawn (delist)

Toumpas (trade) steak knives in a trade with Adelaide or Port for someone decent

Bail (delist)

Trengove (retire) don't think he'll make it back unfortunately

not really anything to argue with ther.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Here's who I would be looking to turn over at seasons end

Watts (trade) must have some currency lets just cash in these chips already

Garland (free agent) let him go, take whatever pick we get for him, he's too inconsistent

Cross (retire) old man time catches up with everyone eventually

Grimes (trade) try to find a vandenBerg type with better skills and a stronger body with the low pick we'll get for him

Howe (trade) if he can attract a late first rounder like was rumoured last offseason that would have to be a win for us

McKenzie (delist)

Gawn (delist)

Toumpas (trade) steak knives in a trade with Adelaide or Port for someone decent

Bail (delist)

Trengove (retire) don't think he'll make it back unfortunately

This whole post annoys me no end.

After one loss we are already lowering ourselves to dumping players and talking about the offseason. Absolutely ridiculous.

Some people are acting like the world has caved in. Last week we couldn't stop praising the side, and now we are potting them and even trying to imply they don't play for the jumper. They certainly looked mighty proud of the jumper last week.

[beelzebub 22,225]

This whole post annoys me no end.

After one loss we are already lowering ourselves to dumping players and talking about the offseason. Absolutely ridiculous.

Some people are acting like the world has caved in. Last week we couldn't stop praising the side, and now we are potting them and even trying to imply they don't play for the jumper. They certainly looked mighty proud of the jumper last week.

at season's end we must change 3.

Lam's post like many's thinkings supposes more. Only a fool really thinks not.

It's not jut one season that ends a player's involvement.

Theres easily still a dozen t hat dont overly add to our position.

This doesn't sit well with some

So be it.

[Winners at last 4,727]

Yes they were, and I'm not suggesting we should have won, by any stretch of the imagination, but the story of our club...

we failed to put on scoreboard pressure when we had the opportunity, stopped believing and ran up the white flag way too early.

Jimma to his credit didn't stop competing all day, but too many team mates simply didn't want to apply physical pressure.

In a similar vein I thought the unsung hero or 2000 was Matty Collins who put his body on the line to fly the flag.

Well, of course Matty Collins put his body on the line. He was an Indian chief after all!!!

[leucopogon 1,468]

This whole post annoys me no end.

After one loss we are already lowering ourselves to dumping players and talking about the offseason. Absolutely ridiculous.

Some people are acting like the world has caved in. Last week we couldn't stop praising the side, and now we are potting them and even trying to imply they don't play for the jumper. They certainly looked mighty proud of the jumper last week.

who out of those I've listed would you be looking to keep and why?

[WERRIDEE 5,211]

We need to target a good ruck at years end.

Next we need a A grade midfielder. And I mean of the comp.

Jones is fantastic, but he ain't a star of the comp. Tyson also was immense last year but butchers the ball too often and does not like a tag, I hope he gets better but I still don't think he will be a star of the comp.

Brayshaw looks very good, but like Viney I think will be a hard nut, but not a star like Pendlebury, Judd etc.

Will Petracca be that player? Not sure, Salem... Maybe.

But I think a dominant ruck should be our priority.

We saw yesterday with Mumford that when a ruck dominates and there is a decent midfield under him you get first use and usually in a good area.

We need to go the other way around a A grade sticks out like a sore thumb.

Most teams have a A grader with class. Jones is a gun but he isn't what you would call class. Imagine how good he would be not getting a tag every week.

A lot people have talked about Toumpas and the disaster he has been considering we could have had a A grader with class in either Macrae or Wines but no one seems to be looking at the Tyson deal and no it's not about Kelly, it's about a clear prototype midfielder that Roos apparently craves being totally ignored in Bontempelli. Tyson and Salem are good players but give me Bontempelli every day of the week.

We continually stuff it up when it comes to recruiting a A grade midfield and what is going to make me sick is seeing a star in Heeney tear it up in a top team due to the academy rort when he should be ours.

I think Roos has been able to create midfield depth as I think we have about 10 to 12 good to handy players that can run through there but unless you have 1 A grader or 2 to allow the depth to thrive then depth is pretty useless.

With ruckman Mumford is the exception he is not the norm. He is the best ruckman by a mile (sorry I forgot Sandilands), no ruckman can do what he does with the exception of Nik Nat but Nik Nat does it once out of every 10 games.

Build the midfield then go after the ruckman similar to what GWS have done.

Edited April 12, 2015 by WERRIDEE

[WERRIDEE 5,211]

who out of those I've listed would you be looking to keep and why?

Watts and Howe were in our best 6 last week so I would wait to see how they go for at least the next few weeks before I would hang them.

[WERRIDEE 5,211]

well we went to Adelaide in Round 4 last season and we were 0-3 and we were all resigned to the fact we would get flogged like we always do in S.A, and look what happened.... could history repeat?

Vince and Grimes done a great job on Dangerfield.

Dawes played a blinder. The only top game he has played for the club.

Walker never played.

Grimes is in the VFL.

Vince is underdone.

Dawes is sadly out of form.

I can't see it repeating.

[WERRIDEE 5,211]

So they're gonna make finals this year? Who out of Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney, Port, Crows, Essendon, North or Geelong are they going to supplant?

7th and 8th are up for grabs for any team in form.

The top 6 teams are capable of winning flag.

[WERRIDEE 5,211]

Disagree

We had them 7 Goals to 2

Effort to play on when you are hurting is where the problem lies

5 goal leads are nothing in todays game.

They are actually the worst leads to have. I can't speak for the players but as a supporter when you watch any side play I'm thinking we kick 1 or 2 more goals the game is over but if they kick 1 or 2 goals they are back in the game, they have a sniff and it's hard to stop momentum. Only the best players seem to be able to do it.

I remember the 2000 Grand Final and I thought we had a better midfield and that was our advantage in that game but every time we looked like getting some ascendency through the middle they would just put Hird in there and he would destroy us.

Put a Dangerfield, Fyfe, Selwood, Mitchell, Kennedy etc in our side and their is no way players like that would allow a 14 goal momentum swing like that.

Jones is a great player but he simply doesn't have the talent to change a game the way they do. We simply don't have the talent.

People will blame our dreadful 3rd quarter for loss, but our first quarter was to blame as well. We dominated I saw a stat that said at the 22nd mark of the 1st quarter we had 10 of the last 11 clearances we dominated and to only be 4 goals up was never going to be enough. We should have at least been 6 to 7 goals up by then which would have put doubts in all the players of GWS's minds but we let them off the hook and paid dearly for it.

[Demonland 64,806]

HELLS BELLS by George on the Outer"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee." ~ John Donne

There are plenty of reasons not to like playing GWS at Star Track oval (Manuka):

1. Having to listen to that god-awful Cossack dance of a club song;

2. Only 2 gates for entry and exit to the ground;

3. No pies or hot dogs for sale;

4. 1 drinks stand;

5. 1 ticket seller window;

6. 1 icecream stand;

7. Did I mention that god-awful Cossack dance of a club song?

Well that Cossack song became even more unbearable when it sounded out around the ground at the end as well, following a complete and utter capitulation by the Demons after leading by more than five goals late in the second quarter.

This gave the Demon fans one more good reason the hate the place ...

Last week, the Demons set about removing some diabolical history, and finally won an opening round game for the first time in ten years. After conceding eleven goals straight and kicking a solitary major in a half of football, they are well on the way to plumbing new depths.

Everything was there to be taken by the team and the club. A good opening game win, playing against a perennial bottom side full of youngsters, at least half the spectators decked out in Red and Blue and showing much more voice than their counterparts in orange. There was much hope and rightly so, after the suffering that the fans had faced for the past 7 years.

And the fans had every reason to think there was something special about to happen. Similar to last week as the team ran onto the ground to the AC-DC theme of Hells Bells the bells of the local Catholic church rang out loud and strong. Trouble was that it was merely a wedding taking place, and those bells were more of a portent of things to come, with the words of John Donnes famous poem ringing true ... know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee ... your time is up Demons!

After a promising first quarter when the team took all before it, and even the opening fifteen minutes of the second, all seemed well.

Compatriots at the game noted that halfway through its second game, Melbourne had yet to lose a single quarter of football this season ...

Then the bells started ringing again!

Opportunities to seal the game were squandered, and despite being absolutely pantsed by Mark Jamar in the first quarter, Shane Mumford began a steady and relentless comeback in the ruck.

A goal just before half-time to GWS was the start of an avalanche of goals that didnt stop until just before the final bell ... and thank goodness that Tom McDonald was playing in our backline, because the result may have been even more ugly without his constant rejection of the GWS attacks.

Leadership was lacking when it was most needed, and the much vaunted leadership group was nowhere to be seen. Sadly, the captain appeared to be operating under an injury cloud ( I hope he was), for he had no spark, run or the normal levels of aggression that he displays week in week out.

Jamar was still getting his hands on the ball in the middle, but Shiel, Treloar, Ward and Coniglio just kept sharking it, while our mids stood by looking on. There were at least nine successive clearances from the centre without a single Melbourne player touching the ball or the opposition player who had it in his hands.

Particularly troubling was that nothing was done to stem this rampage. The same players were left in the middle, even when it was obvious that the GIants' pace was killing us.

Surely it was the time to try something different, but it wasnt until the last quarter that Brayshaw, Garlett and Lumumba got a chance to show some spirit on behalf of the team by playing in the middle?

But by then it was all over, and the hopes of the Demon fans who had travelled by road and air to support their team, not to mention the hordes of local supporters, were dashed well and truly YET AGAIN.

How many time have the fans been asked to dig deep over these past hard years, and when the opportunity to lift the club from its doldrums is left up to the players they fail?

So when the 2015 season draws to a close, and those same players want to know whether they will see season 2016, remember the tolling of the bells and remember that they toll for thee!!Melbourne 4.2.26 7.3.45 7.6.48 8.8.56

GWS Giants 0.2.2 2.6.18 11.8.74 15.11.101

Goals

Melbourne Hogan Newton 2 Garlett Jamar Kent T McDonaldGWS Giants McCarthy Shiel 3 Coniglio Smith 2 Cameron Mumford Scully Treloar WilsonBest

Melbourne T McDonald Viney Salem Cross Tyson LumumbaGWS Giants Coniglio Kelly Haynes Greene Shaw ShielChanges

Melbourne NilGWS Giants NilInjuries

Melbourne NilGWS Giants NilSubstitutions

Melbourne Brayshaw replaced Vince in the fourth quarter.GWS GiantsWilson replaced Tomlinson in the second quarter.Reports

Melbourne NilGWS Giants NilUmpires Stevic Hat PannellOfficial crowd 7,760 at the StarTrack Oval

[Gator 16,891]

Things can turn pretty quickly.

Two years ago the Dogs had Boyd, Griffen, Liberatore, Cooney, and Cross headlining their midfield. They'd already lost Ward. Boyd now runs off a half-back flank, Liberatore's out and the rest aren't there.

Bontempelli, Macrae, Wallis, Dahlhaus, and Honeychurch are kids, but but hey're getting the job done.

Let Brayshaw off the leash, put a rocket up Tyson, mix up Newton's role and fortunes can quickly start to change.

[Coup Cooper 610]

I think we were out coached as well.. There were minimal moves made to stop this run on..

No extra men in defence or moving the midfield around..

[AzzKikA 2,369]

Terrible gut wrenching loss, but not the end of the season, sheesh.

Too many times i saw the Melbourne of old in the second half, running in front of the opposition with arms outspread, the difference to the first half was they attacked the player. I will never understand this, why run along with them, not at them, so they kick the ball over your head, standing 2-3 meters away doesn't stop that happening, but going at them may just make them shank the kick. It's little things like this that looses us games.

I do not buy into the garbage that they have more talent than us, if that were true, why were we winning, and it wasn't because they were playing so badly. It's because we ARE a great team when on, a team that can beat anyone in the comp, the issue is as Roos says, above the shoulders, and we as supporters are no better. It's round 2 and the majority has already written them off.

I think all we really needed to do was to just hold the footy up, slow the play, and that was what the leaders should have done but didn't.

Most on here just need to take do what Frankie Says and relax.

[BrisbaneDemon 1,494]

Well it looks like a picked a good game to miss!, i was looking at the results on my phone, couldn't believe what i was seeing in the second half!. A lot of people tipped us to win as well. Back to you Roosey!, some acid may be needed. A massive challenge this weekend, could be scary to watch......

[rpfc 27,450]

Well, the midfield - the first choice midfield - was the reason for the malaise and the annihilation.

Who do you drop from that? Perhaps Cross for JKH or Toumpas/Jones/Grimes/Michie. Maybe. But he is value to run with someone, and he is a fine leader.

But at the end of the hard, long day - Jones and Tyson need to lift and that will lift everyone else as they won't have to attempt to carry a burden they simply can't carry.

You just cannot replace your best players and because we have so few - when they are down - we will invariably look terrible.

[grazman 6,432]

I think we were out coached as well.. There were minimal moves made to stop this run on..

No extra men in defence or moving the midfield around..

Maybe, Roos admitted that the coaching needs to improve, but its a hard gig.

Melbourne did drop a player behind the ball towards the end of the second quarter. Not sure who exactly, but I'll go with Watts as he was rarely sighted in the forward line. The problem with the tactic is that it actually helped GWS by allowing them to create the overlap from their halfback line which is where most of their drive in the third quarter was coming from. You could move players onto different opponents, but if they're not getting their hands on the ball what do you achieve? More confusion than what you have. Viney in his interview pretty much stated he was at a loss of what to do when Griffen went forward and stayed there. Another couple of years under his belt and he'll be more assured and confident to adapt to such changes in the game.

Most of us don't want GWS to be any good, the reality is they have too much talent on their list. Most of us would trade any one of 95% of our list for a crack at Shiel, Treloar, Whitfield, or Kelly. Griffen is a seriously good player and their support cast of Congilio, Smith, Greene, and Voldemort are miles better than what we have atm.

* Just checked Roos' post match comments. We did drop a player behind the ball:

"We tried to put one back and slow the game down, but ultimately it comes down to us coaching and obviously the message isn't getting through, and we have to coach better than we are at the moment.

Edited April 12, 2015 by grazman

[Dwight Schrute 16,751]

I think the reason roosy didn't put a man back was because he wanted to see if the team would respond, we simply needed our Mids to get their hands on the ball and they didn't/couldn't

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Amazingly, six of our first eight first eight quarters have been pretty good. It's just the other two were awful when the opposition applied pressure.

[beelzebub 22,225]

I think the reason roosy didn't put a man back was because he wanted to see if the team would respond, we simply needed our Mids to get their hands on the ball and they didn't/couldn't

so after 3/4 time when he must have known no one was ( responding ) that might have been a good time ( yeah ) to shut the door ?

It just struck ( and probably not alone ) as a bizarre action ( no action )

[Gorgoroth 12,319]

I'd rather hear Roos tell the truth.

The team, led by its leadership group go to water as soon as their is pressure applied, Jones normally stands up alone but even this week he failed.

Our leadership is so poor that once challenged the game is pretty much done.

(Last week vs GC seems to be a blip on the radar only)

[SaberFang 7,141]

I'd rather hear Roos tell the truth.

The team, led by its leadership group go to water as soon as their is pressure applied, Jones normally stands up alone but even this week he failed.

Our leadership is so poor that once challenged the game is pretty much done.

(Last week vs GC seems to be a blip on the radar only)

Gold Coast applied almost no pressure in our match. The Saints beat a better GC team by 30 points at their home ground, so it's hard not to be cynical about our win in hindsight.

It reiterates to me that the team only seem capable of performing when up against no pressure. Although we got a few surprise wins last year against good sides, most of them were because the opposition were walkovers who didn't apply pressure (likely because they just expected to win against us, and gave us no respect).

It's also why we don't win against the other bottom 4 teams, because unlike us they come out guns blazing knowing we're an easy kill under pressure. We come out expecting to win and get a rude awakening.

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

I don't buy the talk that GWS simply beat us because of their superior midfield and talent. We had them on toast early. Our attitude and application after QT was pizz poor. Whilst Jones is our best player and sets brilliant solo personnel leadership by example he is no leader of men. No one rises to great heights to follow his example. Because his personal form was off there was nothing to provide any sense of leadership left. Another of our recent clayton's captains if he can't impose excellence on his teammates when his personal game is down. Sadly there is no one to take up the slack to support him.

Edited April 13, 2015 by america de cali

[beelzebub 22,225]

I don't buy the talk that GWS simply beat us because of their superior midfield and talent. We had them on toast early. Our attitude and application after QT was pizz poor. Whilst Jones is our best player and sets brilliant solo personnel leadership by example he is no leader of men. No one rises to great heights to follow his example. Because his personal form was off there was nothing to provide any sense of leadership left. Another of our recent clayton's captains. Sadly there is no one to take up the slack to support him.

Theres a semblance of reluctant reality about this.

I trust Chunk was just having an off day but ironically it seems many DID take his lead

[beelzebub 22,225]

If any one had the attendance numbers for Melbourne spectators they could probably add 15 to them after half time