THE DRUG SCANDAL: AFL TRIBUNAL DECIDES

[chookrat 4,268]

I agree whoever said No records = Guilty

I am shocked that isnt WADA law actually

I'm not sure that would work because if you took nothing one would expect an absense of records.

[Whispering_Jack 30,753]

This is a very passionate topic, for everyone.

Sometimes passions blurs the lines of logic.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, so you get the Essendon supporters who think we've done nothing wrong and are dirty on the world for slandering the club for 2 years.

And you get opposition supporters who want Essendon booted from the AFL forever and won't watch another game of AFL until it happens.

I worry for the state of mind for some of the posters on Demonland if WADA don't appeal.

G'day Ash. You're right about the passionate nature of the topic and so it should be given that our involvement is based so much on our passion for the sport.

But it's not this sport alone, it's sport the world over and that's what makes it such a passionate subject for me.

About 25 years ago I turned up to take part in a 10k fun run and I met Raelene Boyle who was one of the celebrity participants. I ran with her for some of the way and ended up beating her home (not sure if she even finished) which means I can say that I beat an Olympic silver medallist and a true Australian sporting heroine. The problem with that is I should also be saying that I beat an Olympic champion which I can't say because of drug cheats.

Renate Stecher who beat Boyle in two Olympic finals was a drug cheat. This was proved years after the 1972 Olympic Games when she was found to have taken part in a state-sponsored drug programme, not dissimilar to the pharmacologically-controlled goings on at Essendon. I don't have the benefit of having heard or read the evidence presented in full or the reasoning of the Tribunal but, based on that which has been revealed, I find the decision and the reasoning behind it unsatisfactory on several levels. That's why I not only want WADA to appeal but believe that it will do so because it must in order to protect the integrity of its code.

However, I can assure you that it won't affect my state of mind if they don't appeal - it won't be the end of the world for me because, in my profession I've seen enough instances of bad decisions in courts or tribunals deserving of being appealed against but for one reason or another, the decision was made not to take that course.

[Chris 2,892]

I'm not sure that would work because if you took nothing one would expect an absense of records.

If there was no evidence of taking anything then an absence of records would be justified.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Sometimes they fool you by walking upright.

or having a legs at all

[beelzebub 23,383]

So what are the chances that WADA appeal?

Does a bear..........

[Macca 17,049]

Does a bear..........

Hope you're right

If they do appeal it will be fascinating to see the reaction from the media, Bomber fans and the wider football community. Suddenly everyone will be getting up to speed on the CAS and the likely consequences of an appeal.

If they don't appeal I'm expecting ASADA & WADA to cop a pounding from all and sundry (including many who have been on ASADA & WADA's side) I doubt I'll be venting but I would need a reasonable explanation on why there isn't an appeal.

[monoccular 17,595]

I agree whoever said No records = Guilty

I am shocked that isnt WADA law actually

Well, in the medicolegal sphere, certainly no records = fail.

[chookrat 4,268]

If there was no evidence of taking anything then an absence of records would be justified.

Thanks Chris, that's a relief as it would be dangerous if ASADA could simply turn up and say prove you didn't take this.

Re Essendon, with the circumstantial evidence ASADA had the onus should have been on the EFC to prove what the players did take in the knowledge of an injection program where no records were kept. The EFC could have compelled Dank to provide evidence of required with the threat of civil damages.

I was always curious as to why the Tribunal wasn't able to consider that the EFC had met with Dank and Charter after the show cause notices were issued to pick holes in ASADA's case but not to establish what the players were injected with. You could argue that the EFC met Dank and Charter with the specific purpose to ensure ASADA could not establish what the players were injected with.

[beelzebub 23,383]

For mine and it's been touched on by others also, and mentioned by myself previously but as bears repeating I think the holistic position is ; does WADA have any option to not (appeal) if it is to continue its stance regarding drugs, supplements and dubious methodologies ?

If it doesn't it effectively pulls the carpet from under itself.

All the whiles til now it's had to play to others agendas and timelines. Now it plays to its own. WADA will be conversant with when and how to appeal and it will.

The Essendon propaganda machine will carry on for the whiles, we'll get interlopers like Sanitry Pad, there will be others whose cart is more laden with mischief than reason and this thread will bumble along until the inevitable. A guilty verdict and associated penalties.

For just as foreseeable was the AFLs virtual exoneration by crafty manipulation will be a proper hearing on neutral ground.

What's at stake really is the relevance of fair competition and a body to oversee it. WADA is duty bound not only by its own code to appeal but by its very credo.

Put more simply, bears do.

[deefrag 277]

For mine and it's been touched on by others also, and mentioned by myself previously but as bears repeating I think the holistic position is ; does WADA have any option to not (appeal) if it is to continue its stance regarding drugs, supplements and dubious methodologies ?

If it doesn't it effectively pulls the carpet from under itself.

All the whiles til now it's had to play to others agendas and timelines. Now it plays to its own. WADA will be conversant with when and how to appeal and it will.

The Essendon propaganda machine will carry on for the whiles, we'll get interlopers like Sanitry Pad, there will be others whose cart is more laden with mischief than reason and this thread will bumble along until the inevitable. A guilty verdict and associated penalties.

For just as foreseeable was the AFLs virtual exoneration by crafty manipulation will be a proper hearing on neutral ground.

What's at stake really is the relevance of fair competition and a body to oversee it. WADA is duty bound not only by its own code to appeal but by its very credo.

Put more simply, bears do.

Finally the answer: A Bear really does drop a Hird in the woods!

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Question:

WADA choose not to appeal, any reason they can't release some of what they found to the public, say they have felt the public viewed them as being on a witch hunt and wanted to show there was merit in their actions, the damage to the Essendon football clubs reputation would be huge and it would prevent them from essentially getting away with murder

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,910]

Question:

WADA choose not to appeal, any reason they can't release some of what they found to the public, say they have felt the public viewed them as being on a witch hunt and wanted to show there was merit in their actions, the damage to the Essendon football clubs reputation would be huge and it would prevent them from essentially getting away with murder

I don't know if they can release or would choose to do so. But you're making an assumption that anything they release would damage Essendon. If WADA chooses not to appeal, isn't there another option that what they release might help with Essendon's reputation?

Mind you, given the definition on Dictionay.com of "reputation" is "the estimation in which a person or thing is held, especially by the community or the public generally", I suspect Essendon's reputation won't change as most people seem to have a pre-conceived and fixed view of what they think about Essendon now.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

I though the EFC's reputation was that of a sporting club that used illegal substances and got away with it and its members are not prepared to make any changes to ensure it never happens again.

[deefrag 277]

I though the EFC's reputation was that of a sporting club that used illegal substances and got away with it and its members are not prepared to make any changes to ensure it never happens again.

Good one! Should form part of their mission statement!!

For what it's worth I don't think WADA will appeal. The professional untidiness of Dank, Alavi and the Essendon crew and the broken links in the chain of custody (of the "substances") makes it difficult for WADA/CAS to meet necessary standard of proof. I reckon WADA will release a scathing press release damning all involved and put weight on the possible future revelations from analysis of players stored blood samples.

Hope I'm wrong!!

Edited May 7, 2015 by deefrag

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Good one! Should form part of their mission statement!!

For what it's worth I don't think WADA will appeal. The professional untidiness of Dank, Alavi and the Essendon crew and the broken links in the chain of custody (of the "substances") makes it difficult for WADA/CAS to meet necessary standard of proof. I reckon WADA will release a scathing press release damning all involved and put weight on the possible future revelations from analysis of players stored blood samples.

Hope I'm wrong!!

That can't be allowed to happen. It basically provides a template for future cheating.

[bing181 9,332]

That can't be allowed to happen. It basically provides a template for future cheating.

Goes to the heart of it.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I'm not sure that would work because if you took nothing one would expect an absense of records.

If it was confirmed they had an injection regime like the Essendon football club had, they themselves admitted that it was " experimental" and " walking close to the line" then i think there is absolutely no excuse for not keeping records, and in turn makes them look about as guilty as they possibly could without being caught in the act.

[deefrag 277]

That can't be allowed to happen. It basically provides a template for future cheating.

Lets us pray that WADA the God of sport whom we worship with such reverence and awe has some substance . . unlike that other one!

[dpositive 1,743]

Good one! Should form part of their mission statement!!

For what it's worth I don't think WADA will appeal. The professional untidiness of Dank, Alavi and the Essendon crew and the broken links in the chain of custody (of the "substances") makes it difficult for WADA/CAS to meet necessary standard of proof. I reckon WADA will release a scathing press release damning all involved and put weight on the possible future revelations from analysis of players stored blood samples.

Hope I'm wrong!!

Or perhaps WADA could not appeal, saying it is not in the interest of further retrospective analysis given the lack of records and noted intransigence of the EFC and professionals involved blah blah bla.

However to ensure the purity and therefore integrity of the sport a new and more rigorous testing regime will be put in place which will be funded by a levy from the Australian body currently responsible for funding the body that is responsible for ensuring there are no performance enhancing drugs in sport.

Then these bodies may like to recover this additional cost from the root cause, AFL and to EFC, or may demand that someone comes clean so that those directly involved take their punishment and we revert to the previous lower costing testing methods.

[sue 9,146]

Weirder and weirder:-

Shane Charter, sports scientist linked to Essendon supplements saga, convicted of drug offences

[deefrag 277]

Weirder and weirder:-Shane Charter, sports scientist linked to Essendon supplements saga, convicted of drug offences

Shane Charter, sports scientist linked to Essendon supplements saga, convicted of drug offences

Outside court, Charter suggested the publicity surrounding both cases was a beat-up.

"Have a look at the whole saga, from the 'darkest day in sport', it's all been politically driven," he said.

"What happened there? It was a big fizzer, it fizzled out.

"What happened here? All the coverage, all the media. You've seen all the reports, most of it was my personal medication, they've charged me for."

"Most of it was personal medication" er and the rest????

[chookrat 4,268]

If it was confirmed they had an injection regime like the Essendon football club had, they themselves admitted that it was " experimental" and " walking close to the line" then i think there is absolutely no excuse for not keeping records, and in turn makes them look about as guilty as they possibly could without being caught in the act.

Indeed, I agree - off with their heads.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I absolutely believe any and everything Shane ( I can be bought or intimidated) Charter would say outside of sworn testimony ( and still dubious then )

[Sir Why You Little 37,195]

Weirder and weirder:-Shane Charter, sports scientist linked to Essendon supplements saga, convicted of drug offences

Dodgy Bugger that one ...

[daisycutter 29,756]

Shane Charter, sports scientist linked to Essendon supplements saga, convicted of drug offences

Outside court, Charter suggested the publicity surrounding both cases was a beat-up.

"Have a look at the whole saga, from the 'darkest day in sport', it's all been politically driven," he said.

"What happened there? It was a big fizzer, it fizzled out.

"What happened here? All the coverage, all the media. You've seen all the reports, most of it was my personal medication, they've charged me for."

"Most of it was personal medication" er and the rest????

shane is just making it perfectly clear to everyone what an unreliable witness he would make

no-one would put him up as a witness

what a great strategy, nearly as good as the lost records strategy