Patrick McCartin

[Deemotivated 550]

I am amused when I see this. Exactly how will he name his price and get to Freo ?

Unless you are a free agent you have two options when your contract runs out.

1/ Get to Freo by the MFC trading him which I would suspect if he comes on would be for a huge return so you wouldn't need insurance

2/ He becomes uncontracted and wants out - worse case scenario is we don't play ball and then he goes into the PSD - and takes pot luck that he wont get picked up by a club lower on the ladder than a WA club.

For non FA's there is not movement to your club of choice unless your current club allows it.

You've not watched the kids recently naming their price and club?

Most have got what they want and where they want. Having McCartin or Wright plus Hogan is not such a bad idea.

Not to say hogan will jump ship but pinning your hopes into the future on just one key forward who could get injured... Again or leave is poor recruiting.

[rpfc 27,591]

You've not watched the kids recently naming their price and club?

Most have got what they want and where they want. Having McCartin or Wright plus Hogan is not such a bad idea.

Not to say hogan will jump ship but pinning your hopes into the future on just one key forward who could get injured... Again or leave is poor recruiting.

You are basing recruiting decisions on 'what might be' by getting a forward.

I am basing recruiting decisions on 'what is' by adding as many talented mids as possible.

Then there are those that scream 'best available! best available!' without the self-reflection of knowing that sometimes the standout kids do not become the standout men.

Do you want the best available 18 year old?

Or do you want the best available 22 year old AFL player in 4 years time?

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Or argue for roads not trains - like Tony Abbott except he banned all federal spending on trains, but I won't go there.....

I think the point here is that power forwards are gold and the good MFC sides have had them in spades. Think Lyon, Schwartz, Neitz. These guys got us consistently into the finals. To forego this opportunity in my view would be stupid, but Demoneyes might be right. I fear he is, but I think we would regret it, like we have with Nicnat, Darling, Wines etc etc

I think you are trying to disagree with me but agreeing with my point. Roads and trains. Mids and forwards (and backs). We need them all just got to make sure we get them at the right price. If you can't understand that maybe you shouldn't go there...

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,349]

If we end up overlooking McCartin for Lever, are we picking up Lever because he's a lovely person who is as articulate as Jack Grimes or because the club considers him the third best player in the draft?

[Deemotivated 550]

You are basing recruiting decisions on 'what might be' by getting a forward.

I am basing recruiting decisions on 'what is' by adding as many talented mids as possible.

Then there are those that scream 'best available! best available!' without the self-reflection of knowing that sometimes the standout kids do not become the standout men.

Do you want the best available 18 year old?

Or do you want the best available 22 year old AFL player in 4 years time?

I'm happy to take 2 mids if they are best available at 2 and 3 but I don't discount another fwd if he's deemed next best.

My point about hogan is that he will be offered a tonne of cash at the end of his current contract. If he goes and we have another quality fwd on the list its not such a bad outcome.

[Dees2014 2,377]

And go back through the history -it will show you that in every draft over the last 10 years that some blokes who the experts rated top 5 have been meh and blokes who the experts rated 5-10 have proven to be the pick of the bunch.

I agree that you take the bloke who you rate top 3 - I will taken any money right now that in 4 years time Petracca at one , Brayshaw at two, McCartin at three, Wright at four ( the so called "experts" ratings) will not be the way they are rated retrospectively.

You point being? What do you think we should do?

[rpfc 27,591]

I'm happy to take 2 mids if they are best available at 2 and 3 but I don't discount another fwd if he's deemed next best.

My point about hogan is that he will be offered a tonne of cash at the end of his current contract. If he goes and we have another quality fwd on the list its not such a bad outcome.

I would prefer to fill the midfield void than worry about the possible Hogan void.

[rjay 23,970]

I would prefer to fill the midfield void than worry about the possible Hogan void.

I would prefer to fill the lack of class and mongrel void rather than worry about positions.

[Wunders 385]

I wonder if Goodwin gets any say?

Obviously Roos has said its up to the Recruiters (Taylor and Co), but im sure Roos would have his own ideas (which he might discuss with taylor) and then Goodwin is taking over eventually so surely he may want a particular player too..

Exciting either way (hurry up draft)!

[Machsy 2,858]

I would prefer to fill the lack of class and mongrel void rather than worry about positions.

I'd maybe agree if we were looking for a back pocket or a high HFF, but a team NEEDS a brigade of quality mids more than anything else.

It's what makes a team tick.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I would prefer to fill the midfield void than worry about the possible Hogan void.

Surprised to keep reading this.

I thought we would have moved past seeking instant gratification with draft picks. The players we pick are not likely to fix our midfield in 2015 and I realise that this is not what you are suggesting.

We have been making investments in the midfield for the last few years, we need to expect a return on them this year and for that retuirn to grow incrementally over the next few.

Jason Taylor needs to pick the blokes that he thinks are most likely to become champions, and i think he will.

[rpfc 27,591]

Surprised to keep reading this.

I thought we would have moved past seeking instant gratification with draft picks. The players we pick are not likely to fix our midfield in 2015 and I realise that this is not what you are suggesting.

We have been making investments in the midfield for the last few years, we need to expect a return on them this year and for that retuirn to grow incrementally over the next few.

Jason Taylor needs to pick the blokes that he thinks are most likely to become champions, and i think he will.

I am a patient, realistic person.

In no way I am expecting ND2 and ND3 to repay on their investment until 2017 at the earliest.

I just realise that there are very few chances to get the kind of talent our midfield needs; the very top of the draft, through costly trades, and difficult FA targets.

The easiest place to get that talent is with the draft picks we have.

The medium to long term investments we have made in the midfield, to add to Jones, are; Tyson, Vince, Salem, JKH, Viney, Kent, and Newton. That's not enough.

I don't even know if JKH and Kent are pure mids. I don't know how good Salem and Newton will be.

We have a chance to help fix the single most important area on an AFL field - I hope we make the most of it, and reap the benefits in 4 or 5 years time.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I am a patient, realistic person.

In no way I am expecting ND2 and ND3 to repay on their investment until 2017 at the earliest.

I just realise that there are very few chances to get the kind of talent our midfield needs; the very top of the draft, through costly trades, and difficult FA targets.

The easiest place to get that talent is with the draft picks we have.

The medium to long term investments we have made in the midfield, to add to Jones, are; Tyson, Vince, Salem, JKH, Viney, Kent, and Newton. That's not enough.

I don't even know if JKH and Kent are pure mids. I don't know how good Salem and Newton will be.

We have a chance to help fix the single most important area on an AFL field - I hope we make the most of it, and reap the benefits in 4 or 5 years time.

I agree with most of what you say, but we have made significant investment in the midfield which I thoroughly expect to pay dividends. I really do this time .

I bought 8 chooks the other day, they will start laying in another month or so. i am not going to buy another eight today because i need more eggs today.

NB: I think JKH is a mid and will end up a very good one.

Edited November 6, 2014 by jabberwocky

[rpfc 27,591]

I agree with all of what you say, but we have made significant investment in the midfield which I thoroughly expect to pay dividends. I really do this time .

I bought 8 chooks the other day, they will start laying in another month or so. i am not going to buy another eight today because i need more eggs today.

NB: I think JKH is a mid and will end up a very good one.

Ok, you have more chickens then the MFC has midfield prospects.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Ok, you have more chickens then the MFC has midfield prospects.

Free range eggs avaialble soon $5 each dozen, pick up Ocean Grove.

[rpfc 27,591]

Free range eggs avaialble soon $5 each dozen, pick up Ocean Grove.

Don't mention Ocean Grove...

I would struggle to name 12 good mids for 2017, that we have now.

Jones is 30. Vince is near the end. Tyson, Viney, Salem, JKH, Newton, Brayshaw, and Kent. That's 9.

They all have to come on - they won't. I hope they all do, they won't. There will be some that come out of nowhere. Maybe Stretch will be ready.

Another class mid needs to be added now IMO.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Don't mention Ocean Grove...

Another class mid needs to be added now IMO.

It's knee jerk RP

We need class full stop all around the ground. We have mids (most are undercooked), we will continue to draft them and trade for them.

I don't want to forego a Matthew Pavlich for a Brock Mclean if that's what it came down to.

Conversely i don't want to lose a Selwood for a Jack Watts.

And yes I know that drafting is a very inexact science, but making these judgements is what we pay Taylor to do......

Edited November 6, 2014 by jabberwocky

[Deecisive 1,658]

Exciting either way (hurry up draft)!

amen

[P-man 13,239]

Don't mention Ocean Grove...

I would struggle to name 12 good mids for 2017, that we have now.

Jones is 30. Vince is near the end. Tyson, Viney, Salem, JKH, Newton, Brayshaw, and Kent. That's 9.

They all have to come on - they won't. I hope they all do, they won't. There will be some that come out of nowhere. Maybe Stretch will be ready.

Another class mid needs to be added now IMO.

Why would you omit Michie from that list if you're including Newton?

Similarly why would you omit Toumpas if including the likes of Salem and JKH? If those two are any closer to coming on, it isn't by much. You're too reasonable to be putting a line through Toumpas already.

Tyson, Viney, Toumpas, Salem, Brayshaw, Michie, Kent, JKH, Stretch and Newton. That's 10. Trengove the unlikely but still possible inclusion makes 11. Plus Jones and Vince.

I'm not saying the midfield stocks are settled, but it's not quite as dire as MUST add another mid.

[TheoX 1,218]

If we end up overlooking McCartin for Lever, are we picking up Lever because he's a lovely person who is as articulate as Jack Grimes or because the club considers him the third best player in the draft?

Don't forget, he's really dedicated to his rehab too.

[rpfc 27,591]

Why would you omit Michie from that list if you're including Newton?

Similarly why would you omit Toumpas if including the likes of Salem and JKH? If those two are any closer to coming on, it isn't by much. You're too reasonable to be putting a line through Toumpas already.

Tyson, Viney, Toumpas, Salem, Brayshaw, Michie, Kent, JKH, Stretch and Newton. That's 10. Trengove the unlikely but still possible inclusion makes 11. Plus Jones and Vince.

I'm not saying the midfield stocks are settled, but it's not quite as dire as MUST add another mid.

I didn't have a chance to write down a definitive list.

I don't see a lot of ball winners there, I don't think Toumpas is a pure mid, and I don't think much of Michie TBH...

We can add Riley too. I don't think that list is very impressive.

I just come back to the fact that star talent generally comes from the top of the draft, expensive trades, and difficult FA targets.

If McCartin is that star talent, far above the mids of his class - then so be it.

But if he is isn't, I can see a Roos led MFC making the strategic decision to 'reach' and select a mid with ND3.

That is the sum of what I am saying.

[jacey 333]

Another class mid needs to be added now IMO.

Definitely but none of the midfield names attached with pick 3 fills me with confidence.

Lever is a highly decorated junior but played all his game as a KD and missed 12 months with a knee. Tom Swift was also a highly decorated junior.

Laverde also hasn't played much in the mid.

They may have the tools but with no midfield runs on the board, I find it hard to project. It's not an easy transition to HB to mid (As Strauss and Christian Howard found)

Hard to say they will be class mids. So do we pick that type even if that type might not be there?

Do we need a mid. Hell yes.

but we need to nail a quality player at 3 regardless of size.

My money is on Pat.

[P-man 13,239]

^Have to admit that's an angle I haven't heard yet.

I think we'd back ourselves to pick up a class midfielder with pick 3. Petracca and Brayshaw can't be the only safe bets (relatively speaking) in the draft.

[olisik 4,060]

We are still going on with the NicNat vs Watts debate however if you look at this year's Best and Fairest count for West Coast and the MFC you will see that they have polled remarkably evenly in the voting at their respective Club's with Jack actually polling more votes than Nic despite being one place lower overall.

Melbourne - Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Medal

10. Jack Watts - 185 votesWest Coast - John Worsfold Medal

9. Nic Naitanui - 103 votes

You are aware each club has a different voting system right?

[ManDee 7,091]

You are aware each club has a different voting system right?

Yes, but 9th is still only one better than 10th.