She's at it again

[Guest]

I was there that day.

Quote from commentary. " The Dees are gunna be something"

What the fu ck happened?

As was I and I can remember on the day that I was neither here nor there on going to the footy. Thank the big pixie in the sky that I did as it was an awesome day to be a MFC supporter.

It still boggles the mind that things went so South so quickly.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[rjay 25,062]

It is ridiculous to blame our recruiting for the position we're in. There is the odd howler made at recruiting time but for the most part, there's been a fairly substantial consensus.

I'd be looking at Daniher's insistence on getting as many years out of his senior players and extending his own tenure which led to a mass exodus.

Secondly, our development has been poor. Colin Sylvia is one of the most sublimely talented footballers to play the game and yet his output has been very poor. I tend to lean towards the idea that he would have had a much greater career in a better system.

What is this comment based on? Col has never shown this sublime talent that you speak of all he has shown is that he is a very limited footballer who has a talent to kick and mark the ball, nothing else.

[Guest]

As I was walking home from work tonight, I was thinking about Roosy's comments and realized that it was probably something that we didn't need.

Maybe he has addressed the tanking issue internally and delivered the message that he gave at the presser to the playing group and it didn't cut through. Perhaps he felt the only way for it to get through was to put it in the public domain in order to force the playing group to confront it.
However, I was enjoying the 'Land for the most part until this thread came up and evolved into what it has become. Why is this? Basically because we are focusing AGAIN on off field politics and personalities instead of the product on the field. It was bloody refreshing to come here and not have to read about how Gardner/Daniher/Schwab/Connolly/Bailey/the bloke who cleaned the dead possums out of the coach's portable office's roof had set the club back 5 years and about how we are only fixing the problems now.

I tend to take Baghdad Bob's viewpoint on the fiasco of 2008-2013. I was no supporter of Schwab or Connolly (though I believe they needed to be treated respectfully on the way out and supported as much as reasonably possible during the tanking inquiry). It should be noted that they were held accountable and there is no point in stirring that hornet's nest again.
However, Roosy's comments may have opened all those festering sores up again (he definitely has here and this site is a microcosm of the MFC supporter base in my eyes) and may turn us into a circular firing squad AGAIN and move us away from being an actual football club. I hope he is playing three dimensional chess here and has an agenda that we may not be able to understand as outsiders.

I also hope that this is the LAST we hear of this. If this is to lance that boil once and for all then so be it. I do NOT want to hear about scars after this. It's PR's job to heal those scars. Unfortunately, the comments on tanking may cause more rifts within the club (i.e. the Schwab/Connolly group will start sniping at those who supported Bailey who will start sniping back while the Gardner supporters snipe back at the Stynes board).

Edited August 6, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Red and Bluebeard 2,089]

Anyone ever noticed the shocking resemblance between Caro and Smaug the terrible?

sat there watching the hobbit thinking what the hell is caro doing in this.

Smaug is a psychopath, but quite clever. Is that what you are getting at? :-)

[P-man 13,366]

I also hope that this is the LAST we hear of this. If this is to lance that boil once and for all then so be it. I do NOT want to hear about scars after this. It's PR's job to heal those scars.

That's the theory I'm going with. He's not afraid to put it on the table and make known his view about the impact it had on the club. I don't think it's something that should forever be mentioned in hushed tones.

As long as this is all part of the process of moving on, so be it.

[old dee 23,870]

That's the theory I'm going with. He's not afraid to put it on the table and make known his view about the impact it had on the club. I don't think it's something that should forever be mentioned in hushed tones.

As long as this is all part of the process of moving on, so be it.

I suggest P-man that it is going to be around for a long time yet in fact it is likely to become the new range rover / going skiing joke for a very long time.]

That period was a crap strategy and will haunt us until we are regular in the top four.

So be prepared to wear it for a long time yet.

[Redleg 41,399]

That period was a crap strategy and will haunt us until we are regular in the top four.

Though it worked for several other clubs who chose wisely in their early selections and had success on the back of it.

We chose badly, paid the penalty for that and paid again as the only club targeted for punishment for a practice that was deemed acceptable by the governing body and the whole competition.

[chook fowler 19,519]

I would settle for an honourable loss this week. An emasculation by the Hawks could set us back big time.

[Waltham33 475]

As was I and I can remember on the day that I was neither here nor there on going to the footy. Thank the big pixie in the sky that I did as it was an awesome day to be a MFC supporter.

It still boggles the mind that things went so South so quickly.

My theory on what happened - the opposition teams have coaches too and they studied the squad and realised we could be intimidated eaily (still a challenge) and that actually our kicking was only ever average - as such players came back the next year being pressured like never before and most did not cope. Add to that a lack of infrastructure and free fall ensured.

[sue 9,126]

A different journo for a change ~

Tanking isn't to blame for the Demons' seasons in hell

[old dee 23,870]

A different journo for a change ~

Tanking isn't to blame for the Demons' seasons in hell

Very good piece sue.

Thank you

[bing181 9,328]

The Guardian. Say no more.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

A different journo for a change ~

Tanking isn't to blame for the Demons' seasons in hell

Good article, except that James McDonald did get a farewell game.

Did our own Supermercado write this?

[Slartibartfast 17,518]

Can't fault it really. Makes depressing reading.

To think we were in the 8 after round 14 in 2011 and people said Bailey couldn't coach.

[jnrmac 20,154]

The infamous Andrews Report. Anyone ever seen it?

Love to see a copy if someone wants to PM me.

Don't read the Guardian but the article is spot on. Tanking is not the reason we are here.

It's the poisonous relationship between the football dept and the players/Bailey at the time. The fact it was never dealt with and Schwab's contract was extended is diorectly attributable to the mess we are currently in.

[beelzebub 23,382]

Oh how Id like for some decent scribe to simply put a piece together outlining how it wasnt just Melbourne 'list managing' it was everyone who had a turn in the sun . I.e These teams did, and when and who they got as a result, and the result of getting who they chose etc.

We just fukked it up,but we we definitely not alone in going this path. Just some honesty in the press instead of agenda would be refreshing.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

As was I and I can remember on the day that I was neither here nor there on going to the footy. Thank the big pixie in the sky that I did as it was an awesome day to be a MFC supporter.

It still boggles the mind that things went so South so quickly.

I think what happened in 2011 was that after Collingwood's success in 2010 with a game style based on a relentless forward press (I don't give credit to Malthouse for this tactic though, as it was based on St Kilda's forward press in 2009 under Lyon), teams started copying it and introducing it into their game plan. This is a typical occurence - the premier's game style from the year before is analysed and teams try to mimic it.

The problem for us was that Bailey's game plan was heavily based on counter attack out of defence. We would get numbers back, soak up a bit of pressure, force a turnover and then break with pace and good ball movement. It was almost a type of sling shot footy, before the phrase was coined in regards to the Swans of 2012.

While the game plan worked well mostly in 2010, once teams started to implement the forward press (being the buzz tactic in footy at the time), all of a sudden we really struggled to clear the ball out of defence with the amount of opposition players crowding the area and putting pressure on. I remember one game early in the year at Subiaco when we hardly got the ball outside defensive 50 in the first quarter. There were also some games at Etihad where the smaller ground and intense forward pressure resulted in us really struggling to move the ball from defence.

The other key issue was that I thought we were also a little bit soft mentally and physically (physically mainly because we were young and the game style was built on lean athletic outside players). We looked great when teams didn't apply much pressure as our game style allowed us to slice them up. But when teams brought the heat in 2011 we wilted.

Anyway while it is arguable that that game plan would not have stood up in the heat of finals footy, and while there's no doubt we were 'found out' a bit in 2011, the chaos that enveloped the club later that year and the awful series of decisions leading up to the 2012 season just caused a problem to snowball into a crisis and that 2010 team never really recovered.

[Jara 1,153]

Oh how Id like for some decent scribe to simply put a piece together outlining how it wasnt just Melbourne 'list managing' it was everyone who had a turn in the sun . I.e These teams did, and when and who they got as a result, and the result of getting who they chose etc.

We just fukked it up,but we we definitely not alone in going this path. Just some honesty in the press instead of agenda would be refreshing.

I did my best (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/spat-over-tanking-bedevils-dees-20130111-2clhj.html )

Didn't do much good - AFL just looking for a whipping boy.

I just wish Roos hadn't reminded everybody about it

[beelzebub 23,382]

I did my best (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/spat-over-tanking-bedevils-dees-20130111-2clhj.html )

Didn't do much good - AFL just looking for a whipping boy.

I just wish Roos hadn't reminded everybody about it

you did good !!

[jnrmac 20,154]

yeah good effort!

[beelzebub 23,382]

unless my memory derails me on this ( and it can.....) I seem to remember a certain Northern suburbs team being quite vocal in its angst towards us then.....

karma !!!

[Slartibartfast 17,518]

I think what happened in 2011

But in 2011 we were in the 8 after 14 rounds.

The Guardian article is interesting and probably spot on the money in that the Stynes/McLardy/Schwab team did well until the early part/middle of 2011. From there it was all downhill.

Oh Jack, I now see what you mean by your bite! Don't you like Barracuda's?

[binman 43,709]

I totally agree tanking in isolation isn't the cause of our malaise. I, like many other DL posters it would seem, believe our position is in large part a manifestation of the overall dysfunction at board, admin and football dept levels that has been a feature of the club for much, much longer than the specter of tanking has been about.

To an extent it is a moot point whether you agree with Baghdad Bob, Hazy or WJ about where blame lies or which particular board is most responsible, most would agree we have been dysfunctional for a long time (though hopefully that has changed/is changing).

However i would argue that yes other clubs tanked (for want of a better word) and yes we were dreadfully unlucky to be the only club to be pinged (and isn't it amazing how clearly a line has been drawn by the AFL since then that basically gives amnesty to all the other tankers) but it was the general dysfunction that meant we got pinged and that it was our heads on the block. The whole episode just shone a light on our internal dramas and inability to get things right off field.

A couple of other thing about Roos' quotes about tanking. First i am not convinced that it was wrong to raise (or respond) to the issue - the fact that he discussed it on 360 and in Tuesdays presser suggests to me they were considered comments, they was purposeful and he had his reasons. Without knowing those reasons i can't fully judge how wise or other wise they might be. I'm prepared to cut him some slack and put my confidence in the fact he knows what he is doing.

The second thing is that whilst he said 'tanking has put the club where it is' (which has been widely reported and also criticised here on DL) and that he believed many of the players from that era still at the club were feeling the impact he also said that he didn't blame the Demons because the incentive of priority draft picks was there.

"The carrot was there and we all know that teams were playing for ladder positions in reverse order," he said.

"Half of the footy world thought it was good management, including myself, but having taken over the club now that was involved in it, I can look back now and say it won't happen again."

Perhaps his objective is to reprogram the player's minds and ensure they are focused on getting as much as possible from the last month of footy rather than let it peter out as has been the case for the last few years. Perhaps he tried internal messaging (and they didn't get it) but has judged that public comments are now more effective in terms of achieving this objective - keeping in mind how insipid our last quarter was in terms of applying pressure. He does note that AFL clubs in general had learnt from the Demons, and teams out of finals contention now looked at the last matches of the season as a pre-season for the following year.

"Teams really want to set good habits and want for their young guys to come in and play well, so I think this year you're going to have a really fierce competition to the end, which is terrific."

[binman 43,709]

Further to the final comments in my post above i thought these comments from Jack Trengove posted today on the MFC site were interesting:

“The last four games are really important to us and we want to finish off this season really well and take some confidence into pre-season and into the years to come.”

Switch on, not off.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

I totally agree tanking in isolation isn't the cause of our malaise. I, like many other DL posters it would seem, believe our position is in large part a manifestation of the overall dysfunction at board, admin and football dept levels that has been a feature of the club for much, much longer than the specter of tanking has been about.

To an extent it is a moot point whether you agree with Baghdad Bob, Hazy or WJ about where blame lies or which particular board is most responsible, most would agree we have been dysfunctional for a long time (though hopefully that has changed/is changing).

However i would argue that yes other clubs tanked (for want of a better word) and yes we were dreadfully unlucky to be the only club to be pinged (and isn't it amazing how clearly a line has been drawn by the AFL since then that basically gives amnesty to all the other tankers) but it was the general dysfunction that meant we got pinged and that it was our heads on the block. The whole episode just shone a light on our internal dramas and inability to get things right off field.

A couple of other thing about Roos' quotes about tanking. First i am not convinced that it was wrong to raise (or respond) to the issue - the fact that he discussed it on 360 and in Tuesdays presser suggests to me they were considered comments, they was purposeful and he had his reasons. Without knowing those reasons i can't fully judge how wise or other wise they might be. I'm prepared to cut him some slack and put my confidence in the fact he knows what he is doing.

The second thing is that whilst he said 'tanking has put the club where it is' (which has been widely reported and also criticised here on DL) and that he believed many of the players from that era still at the club were feeling the impact he also said that he didn't blame the Demons because the incentive of priority draft picks was there.

"The carrot was there and we all know that teams were playing for ladder positions in reverse order," he said.

"Half of the footy world thought it was good management, including myself, but having taken over the club now that was involved in it, I can look back now and say it won't happen again."

Perhaps his objective is to reprogram the player's minds and ensure they are focused on getting as much as possible from the last month of footy rather than let it peter out as has been the case for the last few years. Perhaps he tried internal messaging (and they didn't get it) but has judged that public comments are now more effective in terms of achieving this objective - keeping in mind how insipid our last quarter was in terms of applying pressure. He does note that AFL clubs in general had learnt from the Demons, and teams out of finals contention now looked at the last matches of the season as a pre-season for the following year.

"Teams really want to set good habits and want for their young guys to come in and play well, so I think this year you're going to have a really fierce competition to the end, which is terrific."

Well put Mr Bin...