Hard done by

[old dee 23,872]

Look without wanting to make a mountain out of a mole hill if I ignore the thread it doesn't correct the issue of someone making public a private conversation to the detriment of Jack Watts and the MFC.

I think it's wrong that the thread should exist so therefore ignoring it doesn't solve the problem.

Ok I don't see there is much more to be said.

We are not going to agree.

See you on another thread.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Look without wanting to make a mountain out of a mole hill if I ignore the thread it doesn't correct the issue of someone making public a private conversation to the detriment of Jack Watts and the MFC.

I think it's wrong that the thread should exist so therefore ignoring it doesn't solve the problem.

It was reported as a casual conversation at a public function in a public place. If the conversation happened as reported then there is no reason the player wouldn't expect it to be repeated. There is no breach of trust in these circumstances unless SD holds some official position within the club.

It't not exactly ground breaking information just a player's reported view. It's not anything that would be considered sensitive and it's possibly not even true or may be embelished.

It's up to the reader to determine it's truth, accuracy and relevance.

It's a forum, if all bull-sh-it was censored the forum would cease to exist.

Edited February 19, 2014 by jabberwocky

[stuie 7,374]

If people bring up the past 7 years for discussion do you have to join in?

Do you? Oh wait, you do, cos it's ALWAYS you bringing it up. Over and over.

Change the record WYL, I'm sick of hearing your old hit "186 Blues" over and over again.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

i should hope so that roos is a much better coach then neeld, because if we have another season like we just had then i couldn't bear it, you would think that watts is right that roos will be much better coach then neeld, cause roos has a game plan, a proven game plan that actually works where Neeld just copied another man's game plan that's why he had no idea, he got tangled with it cause when you copy someone you don't know how it really works, that was his biggest downfall he had no clue;

[McQueen 17,867]

Can't win on here sometimes. It's hard to express mood or context but as stated in the OP it was not put to me in a negative light. It was more like "where has this been".

If the mods don't like it. Delete it.

Don't get disheartened SD, it's a classic mountain from mole hill.

Let's just wait and see Wattsy prove to everyone what his comments should in theory translate into on the field this year.

The ball is well and truly in his side of the court now.

Edited February 19, 2014 by McQueen

[Sir Why You Little 37,153]

Do you? Oh wait, you do, cos it's ALWAYS you bringing it up. Over and over.

Change the record WYL, I'm sick of hearing your old hit "186 Blues" over and over again.

then do not listen. Was i responding to you?? No i was responding to Dee2014 who wrote a very good post.

If you don't like what people write start up a new facebook page....

[Akum 2,660]

Can't win on here sometimes. It's hard to express mood or context but as stated in the OP it was not put to me in a negative light. It was more like "where has this been".

Fair enough, you did mention in the OP that it wasn't put in a negative way.

Perhaps in hindsight, "Hard Done By" may not have been the best title to the thread, especially when you quote JW, of all players. Because it's given a number of posters a golden opportunity to have another free whack at him. It would be hard to think of a more negative title.

The rebukes you've copped on this thread are tender by comparison.

[rpfc 28,782]

It was reported as a casual conversation at a public function in a public place. If the conversation happened as reported then there is no reason the player wouldn't expect it to be repeated. There is no breach of trust in these circumstances unless SD holds some official position within the club.

It't not exactly ground breaking information just a player's reported view. It's not anything that would be considered sensitive and it's possibly not even true or may be embelished.

It's up to the reader to determine it's truth, accuracy and relevance.

It's a forum, if all bull-sh-it was censored the forum would cease to exist.

Yeah, and Watts has plausible deniability if any reporter is stupid or bored enough to ask about it.

'You are asking me about what an anonymous poster on a fan site said about some comments I supposedly made?'

'Are there any real questions?'

[jazza 1,323]

This is probably not a ground breaking thread but I thought I'd share an insight of one of the playing group.

I had a chat with a Jack Watts (not on the family day) about what Roosy was like. Jack told me that they can finally see how a real coach operates after six years of rubbish. The group kind of felt hard done by as its obvious the last 5-6 years were a waste.

Some might read this in a negative light but it's not how Jack portrayed it. It's as though they felt like "where has this been"? Jack said he has never been more optimistic about the year ahead and that PR has had a enormous effect on the group.

Its not massive but I thought it was worth a share.

i remember john murphy,gary wilson playing in a terrible fitzroy side.

these blokes never whinned and just got on with the business.

bobby skilton was in a similar situation,never complained and never doubted his ability to have a go and try your best.

excuses are for softkoks when it comes to footy.

we have run out of excuses,the whole club has run out of excuses.

would be embarassed as a player to make comments like this.

the last 6 years ,should have taught them something about footy and prepared for the next 5 years.

Edited February 19, 2014 by jazza

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

FWIW, spoke to Wattsy briefly just before Christmas at Chaddy.

He was there for a photo shoot and said that the message under Roosy is much clearer than anything they had been getting under previous coach and coaching staff. Said it was all starting to make much more sense.

I reponded that i would hope so, especially given we now have one of the land's top 3 or 4 coaches (ie., the boys can no longer blame the coach/coaching staff for any woes from here) and wished him and the boys all the best for this season

There was no mention or indication of being hard done by or any malice towards the past coaches/set up etc that i could gather in our short exchange.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

i remember john murphy,gary wilson playing in a terrible fitzroy side.

these blokes never whinned and just got on with the business.

bobby skilton was in a similar situation,never complained and never doubted his ability to have a go and try your best.

excuses are for softkoks when it comes to footy.

we have run out of excuses,the whole club has run out of excuses.

would be embarassed as a player to make comments like this.

the last 6 years ,should have taught them something about footy and prepared for the next 5 years.

I wonder how you would go if every word that came out of your mouth was quoted. You must be pretty perfect!

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I wonder how you would go if every word that came out of your mouth was quoted. You must be pretty perfect!

Cheap shot JJT. I'm pretty certain that Jazza isn't a no 1 draft pick in a billion dollar competition that is colloquially known as a religion in this country. Unless there is something you are hiding from us Jazza?

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

Cheap shot JJT. I'm pretty certain that Jazza isn't a no 1 draft pick in a billion dollar competition that is colloquially known as a religion in this country. Unless there is something you are hiding from us Jazza?

I don't think it's a cheap shot at all, and I'm sure he or she can speak for themselves. I'm sick and tired of this forum being a venue for Watts bashing. It's easy from the keyboard.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

I don't think it's a cheap shot at all, and I'm sure he or she can speak for themselves. I'm sick and tired of this forum being a venue for Watts bashing. It's easy from the keyboard.

I wasn't speaking on behalf of Jazza, he was simply expressing a view that is held by many on this forum. It's an opinion, not a bashing. I thought your personal dig at another poster should be called for what it was, a cheap shot. No biggie, agree to disagree.

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

I wasn't speaking on behalf of Jazza, he was simply expressing a view that is held by many on this forum. It's an opinion, not a bashing. I thought your personal dig at another poster should be called for what it was, a cheap shot. No biggie, agree to disagree.

I would have thought Jazza's comment was a cheap shot from a comment made by the OP with no evidence, just a supposed comment that Jack made. He or she was quick to put the boots in on a comment made by someone that he has no idea if it actually happened and further can't even be qualified as to be what Jack actually said.

[Little Goffy 14,645]

Haven't you guys ever been in dysfunctional Organisations before? I have been involved in a number of corporate turn-arounds and the MFC in Bailey's and especially Neeld's time have all the hallmarks of an extreme version of one. A characteristic of these types of organisations is that they almost always contain talented people (usually at middle management level) who feel powerless to do anything about the situation. Usually they leave. High stall turnover is a classic sign of a business getting into trouble.

We should be thankful that there was loyalty from such people as Watts, Trengove, Garland, Frawley which leaves us with a legacy around which we can build a team. Usually in turnaround work with good leadership, come much higher performance from these capable people in middle management. I have not double with the very capable leadership of Jackson and Roos we will see an unprecedented flowering of talent the likes of which we haven't seen since Daniher's reign.

The people we should be pointing the finger at is the Board and the CEO. They are the culpable ones here. Not the footsoldiers. Their leadership and governance was a disgrace, and it required heavy AFL intervention to get it right.

We are though now in for an exciting ride.

I used to work in the public service. that kind of dysfunction was business as usual in each department I worked in, and the nature of 'must follow legislation as passed by parliament, until new legislation is passed by parliament' is the embodiment of top-level paralysis. I completely agree with the comment that there can be very capable, and even passionate, people at middle level who either leave or become 'problem staff' (selective compliance, minimum possible work, all that jazz) or leave at first opportunity.

The top levels are ultimately responsible for whether serious staff can really get things done, and the damage bad executive leadership can do in a pretty short space of time is incredible to watch.

There's a brilliant expression dating back a couple of hundred years, French, maybe Talleyrand (such an interesting crook himself), saying 'people continue to be promoted until they reach a level at which they fail, and then they stay there'.

Anyway, the point? I have a lot of sympathy for the players, coaching panels, and club staff who might have been dragging their heels these last few years, even unconsciously. But at the same time... you can't drag your heels and expect to be an AFL player for very long.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I used to work in the public service. that kind of dysfunction was business as usual in each department I worked in, and the nature of 'must follow legislation as passed by parliament, until new legislation is passed by parliament' is the embodiment of top-level paralysis. I completely agree with the comment that there can be very capable, and even passionate, people at middle level who either leave or become 'problem staff' (selective compliance, minimum possible work, all that jazz) or leave at first opportunity.

The top levels are ultimately responsible for whether serious staff can really get things done, and the damage bad executive leadership can do in a pretty short space of time is incredible to watch.

There's a brilliant expression dating back a couple of hundred years, French, maybe Talleyrand (such an interesting crook himself), saying 'people continue to be promoted until they reach a level at which they fail, and then they stay there'.

Anyway, the point? I have a lot of sympathy for the players, coaching panels, and club staff who might have been dragging their heels these last few years, even unconsciously. But at the same time... you can't drag your heels and expect to be an AFL player for very long.

You can't, and that is surely the point. These players would have known by staying at a dysfunctional MFC under Neeld they were surely damaging their personal brands. It took incredible loyalty to stay. They will be rewarded under Roos (bigtime), but it was an act of faith, which could have easily come unstuck. Certainly the Board and the Executive neither had the competence or commitment to fix it. The AFL had to which is a terrible indictment on our football club

[autocol 448]

Seriously mate, you have NFI. You're full of simplistic comments which are so far from reality it's laughable.

Oh that's right... play the man and not the ball. Good one, an in depth response which addresses the post. Not simplistic at all. Congratulations.

I've accused you of making plenty of stupid comments in the last few weeks, but to follow this one with that one just takes the cake. You are an idiot, and the worst poster on this site.

[Carrot Top 947]

This is probably not a ground breaking thread but I thought I'd share an insight of one of the playing group.

I had a chat with a Jack Watts (not on the family day) about what Roosy was like. Jack told me that they can finally see how a real coach operates after six years of rubbish. The group kind of felt hard done by as its obvious the last 5-6 years were a waste.

Some might read this in a negative light but it's not how Jack portrayed it. It's as though they felt like "where has this been"? Jack said he has never been more optimistic about the year ahead and that PR has had a enormous effect on the group.

Its not massive but I thought it was worth a share.

I'm not sure why this gets so much hate. I'm enjoying watching how a real coach operates (how ever briefly and Indian summer-like that may be), and I feel that the past 5-6 years were a monstrous waste of talent, money and belief.

A player speaks his mind and says that it's nice to think that the pain will stop, and people get upset about it? I hope more players do should the new setup become something that we can all enjoy. We treat them like robots and forget that they are young boys thrown into a dysfunctional club, and that the major lesson they learnt from it was that the thing they sweat and bleed for is only rarely enjoyable. They deserved better and hopefully now they are getting it.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

this whole thread has been blown way out of proportion by a person who has deliberately misquoted jack watts.

[ManDee 7,222]

I am new here and I may have missed the point of Demonland, but I thought we were all here because of a common love , the MFC.

The personal sniping is petty, if you don't agree with someone that's fine but try a rational argument. To question someones intellect or knowledge of the game says more about your inability to construct a rational argument than it does about the person you criticize.

We are Melbourne supporters and there are not enough of us, how about we support each other. Go dees!

[pitmaster 3,581]

This is probably not a ground breaking thread but I thought I'd share an insight of one of the playing group.

I had a chat with a Jack Watts (not on the family day) about what Roosy was like. Jack told me that they can finally see how a real coach operates after six years of rubbish. The group kind of felt hard done by as its obvious the last 5-6 years were a waste.

Some might read this in a negative light but it's not how Jack portrayed it. It's as though they felt like "where has this been"? Jack said he has never been more optimistic about the year ahead and that PR has had a enormous effect on the group.

Its not massive but I thought it was worth a share.

Well, that's probably the last time Jack Watts will talk to any of us except in standard football cliches.

Well done SD.

Have you considered a career with the Department of Foreign Affairs? You could be handy dealing with Indonesia.

[jazza 1,323]

I would have thought Jazza's comment was a cheap shot from a comment made by the OP with no evidence, just a supposed comment that Jack made. He or she was quick to put the boots in on a comment made by someone that he has no idea if it actually happened and further can't even be qualified as to be what Jack actually said.

it was an opinion on what was written.thats the evidence i based my comment on.

ive supported many a player and the club for many years.this poor me attitude from posters and people within the club is absolutely

sunday church league rubbish.

this young man JW. knows everything he says will be reported,whether the

op is true or not,my comment was based on what was written.

anyway,get on with the game,ive lost too much sleep.

cant say ive knocked JW to much in my time.over protected him actually,because his teammates left him out to dry.

Edited February 19, 2014 by jazza

[P-man 13,366]

I am new here and I may have missed the point of Demonland, but I thought we were all here because of a common love , the MFC.

The personal sniping is petty, if you don't agree with someone that's fine but try a rational argument. To question someones intellect or knowledge of the game says more about your inability to construct a rational argument than it does about the person you criticize.

We are Melbourne supporters and there are not enough of us, how about we support each other. Go dees!

Welcome MD. You're 100% correct.

However my best advice is to get used to it. Unfortunately.

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

i remember john murphy,gary wilson playing in a terrible fitzroy side.

these blokes never whinned and just got on with the business.

bobby skilton was in a similar situation,never complained and never doubted his ability to have a go and try your best.

excuses are for softkoks when it comes to footy.

we have run out of excuses,the whole club has run out of excuses.

would be embarassed as a player to make comments like this.

the last 6 years ,should have taught them something about footy and prepared for the next 5 years.

You are taking the P155 arent you? Watts did not whinge he mearly highlighted the difference between now and previous coaching groups and that he wished he had had this all the way along. That is a ligitmate comment and not beng a softkok as you put it,

Are you seriously equating the requirements of todays modern footballers with those who played the game in the 50s 60s and 70s? Are you suggesting that player effort was the missing element in Neelds game plan or maybe that Watts and the other players should collectively design and implement the the structures required to play todays game in opposition to the coaches coz they obvioulsy weren't working. Maybe they should all go out and get medical or sport scence degrees so they can work out there own training loads and biomechanics while they are about it?

I doubt you will find a coaching group in the AFL who dont understand the need to train the mind at least as much as the body. They all spend considerable time and effort in developing and training these boys minds because very often that is the difference. Are you sugesting that payers should just do it and we are wasting money and time on this. Of course the coaches have enormous impact on the mental side of the game in every club, successful as well as ones like ours. Thats not a weakness inherent in modern humans its just human nature. Read some books on great leaders if you dont believe me.

There is no logic in your statements. The game today is very different from the one played by the players you note. Its not as simple as trotting out a series of cliches and expecting the players to be "hard at it" or "get there head over the ball" or "dont think DOOO!!" and have that result in wins. If it was we would have recuited Danny Frawley to coach us.