NAB Challenge 2 - Melbourne v Geelong

[dee-luded 2,959]

Who'd have thought we'd have three of the top five against Geelong?

& dunn amongst them!

still reckon your on your last contract dunny. over to you.

[Deespicable 2,886]

What about Grimes?

To me he seems to be a very average player but I am not sure if I am being to harsh.

He is the captain but he can't hang his hat on that to be selected every week.

Just wondering what others think?

He's never going to be a superstar but he works hard and I can't remember too many other Demon players who have nailed Stevie J in a tackle like Grimesy did in the first quarter.

Just think of him as a Maxwell type skipper - honest and willing to back into packs and with good awareness.

He won't become a linebreaking defender because he can't kick long enough but he fits in to the precision kicking game plan under Roosy.

[Deespicable 2,886]

What about Geourgiou, tempted to play Dunn as a half forward and keep him in even when Garland is back?

Dunn is finally looking like a player and you want to move him! His long-kicking is a key part of Roosy's gameplan from defence - Tom Mc, Grimesy, Clisby, Nicho and Terlich all have their virtues but none of them are linebreakers.

That's why we missed Frawley and Strauss last night who can both kick long on the run and clear the press.

Georgiou is still a chance to play however until Garland gets back as you have to remember we have a seven-man rotation in defence these days.

IMO the seven for Rd 1 are: Tom Mc (who will play on Riewoldt), Frawley, Dunn, Grimes, Terlich, Georgiou or Pederson, and one of Nicho, Clisby or Strauss with my preference for the latter one if fit.

[DeeVoted 583]

What a relief, a refreshing change from the past few years. Although I am not expecting too much, the signs are there we are making big inroads to be competitive once again. I have never rated Foster Cup matches that were played in years gone by.Most of the top clubs saw that as an opportunity to blood and give their young kids, new recruits a chance to show if they were up to the rigours of AFL. Their top guns rested, awaiting for the first game, knowing full well they would be in top knick.

As these top clubs eased through the final rounds and then perhaps a chance to snag a Night GF win, then they would unlease

their best players.

As for us, in the last couple of seasons, we could only pray for a win, perhaps an upset, but deep down expecting to be blown away.

We didnt have the luxury of resting our top players, as most were injured, not fit, or even playing but still unable to stem a blowout.

The win against the Tiges was a much need boast not only for us, the supporters, but more importantly the playing group. A honorable loss to a classier team last night, was no dsigrace, in fact most reports I have read so far were giving them rapts for the effort if we had deposed of the ball better the result could / would have been a win perhaps.

Positives I got out of the game against the puddy kats

1. Were able to get the footy. (possessions)

2: They fought back when it looked likely to be a blowout.

3. A much improved midfield

4; We matched them in most areas of the game

5. Have some of our best players to come back in.

6. We now know we have the tools to get better, and they will.

(5a Demonland stood the test and handled the traffic on here, no lag, or crashes)

Negatives

1. Skill errors, turnovers

2. Lacking confidence to do the instinctive things, and reverted back to old habits at times.

3. Geelong not at full strength, and expermenting

4. Some that played I woudnt expect to be here next year.

5. Our lack of inside 50's compared to the amount of possessions we had.

6. A few positional areas still need to be addressed

Overall pretty happy with the outcome, I'd take a 13pt loss any day, as long as we see them giving it their best. even though it was just a NAB game, the signs are there the boys have turned the corner, just need some confidence. I can feel the saints feeling more uneasy about their chances come round 1. For the first time in ages I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Already some players are showing the worth of having Roos around.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Grimes continues getting games. His disposal is still horrid and despite many hailing him as a good reader of the game, I just don't see it. Is it just me?

There were a few games towards the end of last season, where if we'd taken out all our turnovers that led directly to goals, the scores'd be practically level. It seemed to be the same thing again tonight, yet this tonight we clearly had a plan.

It's great to see a Melbourne midfield where we have three or four players getting high 20s and early 30s in the disposal count. The last time that happened, we were playing finals. We still need to weed out players like Nicholson, Bail, M Jones and Dunn, but that will come as the season progresses. Give us Clark & Dawes (if they ever get on the park) + Frawley & Garland and we're a competitive outfit. Oh, and throw Viney into that midfield mix too.

It's always tough to take anything from the NAB pre season, but at least our guys are getting their hands on the ball, which will in turn breed confidence individually and jointly. As the season progresses, our midfield will begin to accustom themselves to playing with each other and I reckon we'll see some real improvement across 2014 and 2015. About bloody time!

I think its confidence with grimes'y. he reads the play but we don't see the best of him because the team hasn't been good. so we see his ability but not the clean output.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

Okay so I didn't see the WHOLE game, but I'm shocked (actually, I'm not really) to scroll back through the last few pages and see more Watts-bashing. Thought he looked great on the wing. Promising signs.

Some good signs, especially with Tyson, Michie and the older stalwarts Vince and Cross, you can see they're going to make us much more competitive this year. Decent midfield depth at last (although still a long way off the standard of the good teams).

There is a difference between Watts bashing and constructive criticism. Don't be fooled by numbers, early he seemed to jog around and look like he was mentally somewhere else. His tackles don't stick and he still lacks appetite for the contest. His game did improve as the game went on. I appreciate it was his first hit out for the year but needs to step up and find a new level of intensity.

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

Dunn is finally looking like a player and you want to move him! His long-kicking is a key part of Roosy's gameplan from defence - Tom Mc, Grimesy, Clisby, Nicho and Terlich all have their virtues but none of them are linebreakers.

That's why we missed Frawley and Strauss last night who can both kick long on the run and clear the press.

Georgiou is still a chance to play however until Garland gets back as you have to remember we have a seven-man rotation in defence these days.

IMO the seven for Rd 1 are: Tom Mc (who will play on Riewoldt), Frawley, Dunn, Grimes, Terlich, Georgiou or Pederson, and one of Nicho, Clisby or Strauss with my preference for the latter one if fit.

Actually I think come round 1 we will have only 6 in the backline as we need the extra midfield and forward rotation more. If all 6 defenders play around 90% game time we can make up the 50 or 60% that one of them is on the bench for by filling in with midfielders. Look for McKenzie, Matt Jones, Michie or Watts to take a percentage of time as a high half back playing on an opposition midfielder who starts forward of the centre.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Dunn is finally looking like a player and you want to move him! His long-kicking is a key part of Roosy's gameplan from defence - Tom Mc, Grimesy, Clisby, Nicho and Terlich all have their virtues but none of them are linebreakers.

That's why we missed Frawley and Strauss last night who can both kick long on the run and clear the press.

Georgiou is still a chance to play however until Garland gets back as you have to remember we have a seven-man rotation in defence these days.

IMO the seven for Rd 1 are: Tom Mc (who will play on Riewoldt), Frawley, Dunn, Grimes, Terlich, Georgiou or Pederson, and one of Nicho, Clisby or Strauss with my preference for the latter one if fit.

Not really, Georgiou has been fantastic but so has Dunn, i suppose they could both play back until Garlo is right

[Biffen 12,947]

Can someone just kick that [censored] Selwood square in the fkn head or smash his larynx .that will fix many of my issues with those cats.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Can someone just kick that [censored] Selwood square in the fkn head or smash his larynx .that will fix many of my issues with those cats.

You wouldn't have him in your side then Biff?????

[Nasher 33,617]

& dunn amongst them!

still reckon your on your last contract dunny. over to you.

If Dunn continues on the trajectory he is on, he'll make the full journey from one of the worst ever MFC players to play 100 games, to respected 200 game player.

When Neeld went and Roos came, I mentally reset my thoughts and expectations on all our players, and none have had a bigger swing than Dunn in my eyes. He's firmly in our starting 18 for round 1 and is looking like a player of his experience should. I couldn't be more pleased so far.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I know this is true, but imagine the difference it will make when we have all of Dawes, Fitz, Hogan, Howe, JKH and eventually Clark in the same side. At the moment we know we have to hold up the ball movement to make sure our forwards are in position so we don't turn it over as we move forward, so often we choose to go backwards.

I think it will emerge when we get our full forward line that rather than chipping it around ALL the time, we will mix it up more as we go forward. There will be more emphasis on fast ball movement into the forward line which by necessity will mean sometimes long bombing it, but also understanding that we have the marking power down there to enable us to monster some, what Paul Roos describes as, "free" goals. It will also make a huge difference to the key stats of "inside 50" and "marks inside 50", both of which were well down last night, but our ball possession was way above Geelong. We seen to have no trouble getting the ball (a testament to our new mid-field), but our options are limited at the moment as to what we do with it until we get our full team. A good test will be against Hawthorn next week where we should see a further development in how we play. Hopefully it will not be as windy as it sometimes is at Casey, which like in the Alice, will not be good for the gameplan.

What will emerge is a refined gameplan to suit the cattle on the park. At the moment it is essentially defensive because that is the ability we have on the field. In its mature form it will be much more multi dimensional and so much more powerful. Hawthorn should be a good test.

A further refinement which might be worth a try in these practice games is to have one of the monster forwards ( Hogan, Dawes, preferably Clark later on) not chase the ball up the field which is the want of the modern game, but have him parked in or near the goal square permanently in anticipation than more often than not he will get the ball. If this happen, it will make double teaming more difficult. This only works though if you are confident we can maintain and get ball possession so the long bomb can be used. You only need this to work three or four times a match and it could be the difference between wining and losing. Hogan in particular is first class at monstering the opposition. Many of his goals at Casey were as a result of strong pack marks near goal. I would hate to think what he would do in an almost permanent one one one.

Spot on. Will be a different story when we have a full forward set up - but chances are this year we will rarely have Clark, Hogan, Dawes, Howe, JKH/Trengove all playing at once.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Not sure I agree with Roos on his insistence on keeping youth out of the side. Sure, ease them into it, but if they're in the best 22 it seems counterproductive to outright exclude them simply based on age.

I kept thinking last night how different that match could've been with a fast, small forward opening options to get us the ball inside 50. Something we visibly lacked and JKH would be a key missing ingredient there.

The more game experience our young players get, the faster they will develop. Sure, don't throw them to the wolves, but if we have a predominantly experienced squad there to help them out, what's the worst that can happen?

Edited March 1, 2014 by Lamashtu

[Dan Fantastik 50]

Dunn has been a target for criticism for quite a while on Demonland.

Chip and Garland often get the excuse of "what can they do with so many inside 50's and enormous pressure?" the same goes for Dunny. I think with more support around our key defenders they will all seem to improve (I hope). Its good to see Dunny getting some recognition for his effort so far this year.

As for those unhappy with Terlichs game he had 19 touches last night at 95% efficiency (third highest of anyone on the ground) He is in our 22 IMO. I just love the way he plays his footy.

Biggest standout for me was Dom Tyson. His intensity and tackling was very good and he managed to rack up a lot of the ball with pretty good efficiency, it looks like he has a good balance of inside and outside skills. So far the trading of pick 2 looks like a good deal. It will be interesting to see how Salem turns out, could be the best trading scenario we have done in a long time.

I was also impressed with Hogan, Bernie, Cross and Viv. A much more promising group of inclusions then Gillies, Byrnes and Rodan.

I put some coin on us to knock off the Saints in round 1 during the week and after last night I am feeling more confident then ever.

Cautiously optimistic! Go Dees!!

[dee-luded 2,959]

I too am a Dunn convert.

He'll play his best footy under Roos and become an important ingredient down back.

I'm not a convert at all, but am interested in the dunn mk11

but I'm leaning at this point to Georgiou to take him by end of season. with mitchie possibly off half back later?

my mid season side

F-B: Georgiou Frawley Garland

H-B: Grimes McDonald Dunn

C-L: Watts Trengove Cross

H-F: Mitchie Dawes Tyson

F-F: Fitzpatrick Howe Hogan

Foll: Spencer Vince NJones

Int: Viney, McKenzie, Terlich, Toumpas,

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Not sure I agree with Roos on his insistence on keeping youth out of the side. Sure, ease them into it, but if they're in the best 22 it seems counterproductive to outright exclude them simply based on age.

I kept thinking last night how different that match could've been with a fast, small forward opening options to get us the ball inside 50. Something we visibly lacked and JKH would be a key missing ingredient there.

The more game experience our young players get, the faster they will develop. Sure, don't throw them to the wolves, but if we have a predominantly experienced squad there to help them out, what's the worst that can happen?

Keep them hungry and make them earn a spot, if you just give them a game to give them experience or to win a practice match they won't learn a thing. They need to know just how hard it is to get a gig at this level and they can't just coast at Casey when they get dropped.

[dee-luded 2,959]

If Dunn continues on the trajectory he is on, he'll make the full journey from one of the worst ever MFC players to play 100 games, to respected 200 game player.

When Neeld went and Roos came, I mentally reset my thoughts and expectations on all our players, and none have had a bigger swing than Dunn in my eyes. He's firmly in our starting 18 for round 1 and is looking like a player of his experience should. I couldn't be more pleased so far.

yes I know, at this point. but its IMO the pressure dunny is feeling about not being securely locked on the list which keeps him sharper. the criticism, in his case, keeps him honest.

dunny has slowly been improving over the last 2 -3years in the defence as I think he should have been from Yr-2 of his career. so what I'm saying is keep him feeling close to the edge of the list.

I still don't see him beyond the end of 2015. he'll be surpassed, & I certainly don't want him a in a finals side.

he baulks from the extra physical September physicality.

Edited March 1, 2014 by dee-luded

[Macca 17,034]

Clisby, Dunn, Georgiou, Hogan and our new midfielders (Tyson, Michie, Cross and Vince) were the standouts. We look a completely different team. Watts didn't seem to waste a possession and Roos is using him very intelligently - Jack will only get better. Spencer has a nice leap on him in the ruck and if he can get his timing right, he'll be another plus. Toumpas was another who showed a bit.

Our ratio of turnovers in relation to our disposal count has already gotten a lot better (in the past 2 seasons it was often 1 disposal = 1 turnover) A new game plan takes time to learn and the game plan we're learning is a big departure from what's happened previously.

Roos would have known that we'd have to make some mistakes along the way and in the 2nd half, we kept up our style of play and most importantly, we ran out the game and didn't give up. We can't be expecting a really low turnover rate just yet ... that will come when we're more proficient at the game plan ... and, coupled with that, an influx of players in the team who are better with their decision making and/or disposal skills.

Overall, very pleasing and a lot to look forward to. The Hawks kicking skills will test our blokes next Saturday so we'll need to come to play. It's a good thing to be playing these better sides in the lead up to the season - we need to be tested.

[rjay 25,092]

Not sure I agree with Roos on his insistence on keeping youth out of the side. Sure, ease them into it, but if they're in the best 22 it seems counterproductive to outright exclude them simply based on age.

I kept thinking last night how different that match could've been with a fast, small forward opening options to get us the ball inside 50. Something we visibly lacked and JKH would be a key missing ingredient there.

The more game experience our young players get, the faster they will develop. Sure, don't throw them to the wolves, but if we have a predominantly experienced squad there to help them out, what's the worst that can happen?

I'm not sure he has any insistence at all, he's just not expecting them to be the match winners from game one and reckons they should earn a place in the side. Sounds fair to me.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If Dunn continues on the trajectory he is on, he'll make the full journey from one of the worst ever MFC players to play 100 games, to respected 200 game player.

When Neeld went and Roos came, I mentally reset my thoughts and expectations on all our players, and none have had a bigger swing than Dunn in my eyes. He's firmly in our starting 18 for round 1 and is looking like a player of his experience should. I couldn't be more pleased so far.

I said it after the Richmond game, it's as if Roos has tightened a few screws and he is now using his ability for good instead of evil.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

Not sure I agree with Roos on his insistence on keeping youth out of the side. Sure, ease them into it, but if they're in the best 22 it seems counterproductive to outright exclude them simply based on age.

I kept thinking last night how different that match could've been with a fast, small forward opening options to get us the ball inside 50. Something we visibly lacked and JKH would be a key missing ingredient there.

The more game experience our young players get, the faster they will develop. Sure, don't throw them to the wolves, but if we have a predominantly experienced squad there to help them out, what's the worst that can happen?

I think it highlights the mismanagement of players from earlier years also, jkh played a good quarter against the tiges, but still seems to not have the fitness levels to be playing a full game at afl yet! Allowing game time for lots of players is very important and thus spreading the load is vital. Playing Byrnes and blease is probably more about sharing the load. Max king won't play afl level this year but played both games so far so I feel like he isn't against playing youth just wants to keep them fit

[Bang Bang Bang 5,839]

Dunn's best feature is his ability to get the ball quicker than any other from point A to point B (60m downfield). His boot is underrated and close to the best in the team. Only a foot soldier but every team needs them and he's clearly best 22.

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

I was only saying the other day that the Dunn resurgence reminded me of a past player Graham Osborne who came to the club in about 1966 as a half forward, played in a number of positions on the ground and didn't really establish himself as a player until the tail end of his career when he was played as a key defender. For most of his 12 seasons he was regarded as a bit of a spud but he came good at the end and for those last couple of years in particular, he was a very good full back.

Let's hope we can say the same about Dunny.

[DemonOX 8,801]

There is a difference between Watts bashing and constructive criticism. Don't be fooled by numbers, early he seemed to jog around and look like he was mentally somewhere else. His tackles don't stick and he still lacks appetite for the contest. His game did improve as the game went on. I appreciate it was his first hit out for the year but needs to step up and find a new level of intensity.

It was watts first game of the year.

Give him a break u said yourself he improved as the game went on.

I am very sick of the constant criticism of Watts. This is his first REAL coach.

[Hannibal 5,814]

As I said, two weeks ago, Dunn has stopped being a tool.

No doubt this is Roos instructed.