MELBOURNE TEAM FOR ROUND 1, 2014

[Undeeterred 3,045]

Behind Hogan and Clark... Don't forget the ACTUAL info.

Of course, you would realize he did that a few times this year and did ok...

There's even less chance than Hogan being a back up ruck, sorry. Clark, maybe, but we'd be putting his foot at risk and came to Melbourne in part to avoid rucking. And we have three specialist ruckmen and Fitzpatrick on the list.

When Roos discussed Watts and midfield in the same sentence, I just don't think he meant as a ruckman. That's all I'm saying...

[The Red Fox 216]

Let's throw down a fairly typical 2014 line-up... and add games played for the MCF in 2013 next to each player

B: Dunn (18) Frawley (17) Garland (21)

HB: Grimes (15) McDonald (17) Clisby (8)

C: Watts (18) Vince (0) Cross (0)

HF: Howe (21) Dawes (12) Trengove (20)

FF: Hogan (0) Clark (4) Blease (10)

R: Jamar (9) Jones (22) Viney (13)

Int: Miche (0) Tyson (0) Toumpas (14)

Sub/Emg: M Jones (22), Terlich (20), Kent (15), McKenzie (12), Tappy (16), Byrnes (17), Jetta (5), Fitzy (11), Gawn (13)... you name it.

Of the starting 21, only 8 played more than 15 games for us last year.

They combine for 239 games in total, at an average of 11.3 games per player. There's half a season missing for each player.

Someone might want to look at the Freo and Haw Grand Final teams and let us know what the average games per player was.

We have the squad, continuity is the absolute key and it's what'll drive this club up the ladder.

[rpfc 28,052]

Call me conservative but I don't think we can pick up Cross, a couple of kids, and immediately throw Matt Jones, McKenzie, and Grimes out of the midfield.

People trot out all the excuses under the sun for the players they have a soft spot for and surgically dismiss players they think the reverse of.

I am glad there is more young talent at the club, and more competition for midfield spots, but it is just that at the moment.

We still only have kids, journeymen, NQRs, and Jones in our midfield.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Call me conservative but I don't think we can pick up Cross, a couple of kids, and immediately throw Matt Jones, McKenzie, and Grimes out of the midfield.

People trot out all the excuses under the sun for the players they have a soft spot for and surgically dismiss players they think the reverse of.

I am glad there is more young talent at the club, and more competition for midfield spots, but it is just that at the moment.

We still only have kids, journeymen, NQRs, and Jones in our midfield.

I'll throw them out of the midfield. They're one of the core reasons we had the worst midfield in living memory.

[whatwhat say what 22,196]

matt jones and mckenzie will help add to the depth of the midfield in 2014.

grimes needs a set position. his reading of the play is exemplary. if he's not forced to try to do two roles - both roaming half-back and grunt mid - then he'll be the player we want him to be.

[monoccular 17,328]

Dawes will ease Hogan's entry to AFL.

I would play him and make him do the bullocking work.

Protect the investment (and capitalise on him) a little hey?

I am sure most would like to play Dawes - trouble is that his body has said "no" far too often.

Any updates on his injury - including real diagnosis, and progress?

[robbo24 66]

B:Terlich Frawley Clisby

HB: Grimes Garland Dunn

C: Trengove Magner Tyson

HF: Vince Clark Hogan

F: Michie Dawes Howe

R: Gawn Watts N.Jones

Int: Cross Kent Viney

Sub: Kent

Team explained:

I don't rate McDonald

Magner is almost guaranteed first hands on the ball

Blease to spend early part of season learning defensive running

Jamar is passed it

M Jones overlooked by me but probably gets a gig

McKenzie doesn't play

Toumpas to spend a year or two putting on some size.

[Robbie57 2,001]

Roos has made it clear that he expects the Mids,HB's and HF's all to run back and forward.

So here is my 22 (trying to identify the role Roos will allocate):

Back 4: Garland McDonald Clisby

Frawley

Defensive Mids: Grimes Terlich

Swing Mids: Watts/Tyson Toumpas/Michie

Forward mids: Trengove Howe

Forward 4: Dawes

Hogan Byrnes Clark

Ruck: Gawn

Stoppages: Jones/Cross Viney/Vince

Sub: M Jones

Clark or Dawes need to ruck a bit.

Whilst Watts (and off the interchange Tyson) are "swing (or outside) mids" I see them more in the old ruck rover mould (an Adam Goodes role) drifting back and forward into the holes.

I'd be interested to see what "roles" others see emerging for specific players.

For example, I see the following as direct swaps in their roles:

Back 4/Dunn /Pedersen

McKenzie (tagger for designated games)

Trengove/ Tapscott

Byrne/ Blease

Front 4 talls/Fitz

Gawn/Jamar

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Matt Jones offers more than Trengove at the moment, in my opinion. He has speed, unlike 3/4 of our mids and can hit a target. You can't play 10 bullocking mids in a team and leave out the runners.

[DeeSpencer 24,787]

Considering he wasn't even a VFL player until mid 2012, to then say that after one season (where he outperformed all but Nate Jones in the midfield) he has reached his ceiling is just laughably presumptuous. To be basing his relegation to the fringe I guess is a product of the rosy hue that comes with the enthusiasm for last week's recruits, odd considering that Tyson, Michie and pick 9 are unproven. The reality is from a base of nothing, and against all the odds, Matt Jones became one of our best players. To forecast his demise based on new recruit romance is fantasy.

To put pick 9 ahead of Jones is presumptuous and wrong I agree.

But I make a case for Michie - better skills, as consistent in WAFL 2013 and Jones was VFL in 2012, better clearance player and more natural half forward in the rotation. I make a case for Dom Tyson - former pick number 3 and when fit has played some very decent games. And Watts is expected to receive a long run of time on the wing. If (like I do) you rate McKenzie as a pure tagger plus throw in Vince, Nathan Jones, Viney, Trengove and now Cross then Matt Jones is fighting with Toumpas and Evans for the last couple of midfield spots.

Matt Jones was one of our top 5 consistent players hence his finish in the B+F but Evans and Toumpas' best were as good as his and based on improvement they might go past him. Either way it doesn't bother me as long as they play good VFL and we finally have some depth and competition for spots. It would be a miracle if our top 10 midfielders don't suffer any injuries for the entire year so I expect to see quite a bit of Matt Jones.

The only thing that could consign him to the reserves permanently would be amazing production from our first year draftees and unlikely improvement from a few at Casey - Taggert, Nicholson etc.

[DeeSpencer 24,787]

Matt Jones offers more than Trengove at the moment, in my opinion. He has speed, unlike 3/4 of our mids and can hit a target. You can't play 10 bullocking mids in a team and leave out the runners.

Speed and run sure, but is a poor kick. Often kicks over the head of a leading forward, very frustrating. Trengove is much slower but more reliable and can mark. Toumpas can't find the ball as regularly or get out of pressure but when he is out in space can use it better. Watts the same. I like Evans because he has all round game - inside, outside, marking, kicking, tackling. There will be competition for the midfield spots that's the positive.

[DeeSpencer 24,787]

Swing Mids: Watts/Tyson Toumpas/Michie

Clark or Dawes need to ruck a bit.

Whilst Watts (and off the interchange Tyson) are "swing (or outside) mids" I see them more in the old ruck rover mould (an Adam Goodes role) drifting back and forward into the holes.

Watts will be in that role for sure. Play off a wing and get back to defense and out in space and try to get forward as well. Toumpas as well. And I think Bernie Vince will feature like that as well at times if we can get enough drive from Jones and Viney and co at the stoppages. Same for Cross who not only is a competitor in close but has the over head marking ability and elite fitness to be a great two way runner. In fact I think we will see Cross getting back and taking a lot of crucial marks but we will need someone for him to handball to! Same forward we just hope it's 30m out directly in front!

Michie and Tyson not so much. They are recruited to be the future alongside Viney and Jones at the stoppages. They might not be seasoned physical bruisers but that will be their role I would've thought. That said Michie will play half forward to adapt to AFL and Tyson will play outside mid or forward as well to protect him from too much stoppage stuff too early.

[Canberra Demon 159]

I really like the look of the list. We have some depth in our ranks. Its allowing the young kids to develop into their ability. Not being thrust into the frontline and expecting them to perform. Another thing I can see as a bonus is that the players who we all love to make comment about, and no im not picking sides on if they will be good or not, but they will actually have to train hard, play well to get a spot under Roos.

Competition for a position might just get the best out of players like Dunn, Pederson, Watts (consistency), McKenzie etc. We have a lot of players who were getting games who we all know could play better then what they did but constantly played below par and got away with it because they could.

[timD 994]

Without stepping Tim's toes, I think a few of us have been aware for a while that Grimes is limited player. His foot skills are ordinary and his decision making heightens that. I'm not saying there's no scope for him to improve, but I would hope that we recruit someone that supersedes Grimes as a HBF. For the moment, I would prefer Jimmy Toumpas delivering the ball off half back.

I think eventually, if Grimes is to make it, he'll have to develop a clearance-winning ability. Players like Sewell, Cross and even Priddis have shown the football world that you don't necessarily have to be the most talented, to be an important midfield contributor. These players have exemplified a tireless commitment to improving and getting the best out of themselves. Grimes certainly has these attributes, so I won't write him off becoming an important cog just yet.

I'm not claiming some sort of superiority or primacy of judgement AdamFarr...no toes to step on.

What I'm astounded by is Dunn being devalued. He is better in the air and generally defending than most of the team but few have him in. He's a damn sight better at defending than Terlich....

Anyway, Jack Grimes is going to struggle to get a spot in the team. With Cross in, I'd have Jack out. Maybe Mitchie. Either way atm.

[P-man 13,366]

Still a couple of holes to fill in terms of outside run and class. Vince will certainly help. Watts may be transformed. Toumpas is still another year away you would suspect. Blease...who knows. A bit of the unknown.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I'm not claiming some sort of superiority or primacy of judgement AdamFarr...no toes to step on. What I'm astounded by is Dunn being devalued. He is better in the air and generally defending than most of the team but few have him in. He's a damn sight better at defending than Terlich.... Anyway, Jack Grimes is going to struggle to get a spot in the team. With Cross in, I'd have Jack out. Maybe Mitchie. Either way atm.

There's a reason why most have left him out. I can't say I share the same love for him, and that seems to be the general consensus for most supporters.

As far as tall defenders go, Frawley and McDonald have Dunn covered because they add more than just accountability and one-on-one defending. Garland is the other tall who can also play small and again offers far more than Dunn as far as other aspects of playing the game goes. What's his value to the side if those three have him covered in every other facet of the game?

As far as half backs and pockets go, again it's not all about one-on-one defending. Run, carry, reading the play, speed and footy smarts. Terlich, Grimes, Clisby again have him covered and can play on smalls.

Dunn is okay for a lock-down cameo job occasionally but he is certainly not in my starting back six.

[old55 22,843]

I really like the look of the list. We have some depth in our ranks. Its allowing the young kids to develop into their ability. Not being thrust into the frontline and expecting them to perform. Another thing I can see as a bonus is that the players who we all love to make comment about, and no im not picking sides on if they will be good or not, but they will actually have to train hard, play well to get a spot under Roos.

Competition for a position might just get the best out of players like Dunn, Pederson, Watts (consistency), McKenzie etc. We have a lot of players who were getting games who we all know could play better then what they did but constantly played below par and got away with it because they could.

The optimism on here is predictable.

Let's face it - we've got about 5 players who currently are proven at AFL level without question marks - N.Jones, Viney, Frawley, Garland, Grimes - that's why we've been sh1thouse. We can add 2 more from recent acquisitions - Vince and Cross. That's 7 and none of them are stars.

It's reasonable that with development and freedom from injury we can add 9 more - Hogan, Watts, Toumpas, Dawes, Trengove, Clark, McDonald, Tyson, Howe.

A case can be made for Gawn, M.Jones, Terlich, Fitzpatrick, Clisby, Michie. That makes 22 players but not a balanced match-day 22.

The jury is way out on the rest.

We've got a long road ahead still.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Fifty-5

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I'll throw them out of the midfield. They're one of the core reasons we had the worst midfield in living memory.

exactly. We have 4 new midfielders, put them all in round one and the blokes who have been consistently giving us nothing can go to Casey.

[hayz 27]

Bump

Now we have a few god recruits, what do we think the team would be?

B: Garland Frawley Terlich

HB: Grimes McDonald Dunn

C: Watts Viney Tyson

F: Howe Dawes Hogan

FF: Kent Clark Trengove

R: Gawn Jones Vince

Int: Cross Michie Fitzpatrick

Sub: Toumpas

I would also be happy with Clisby instead of Dunn.

There is also the possibility that pick 9 will be in the team. Hopefully Freeman or Lennon!

It's exciting that there's good players to pick in our best 22 that are not Bail or Nicholson etc.

Leaving out of this team are players like Matt Jones, Mckenzie, Blease, Tapscott, pick 9 and Barry. The point being we have a lot of players in front of nicho and bails for a game which shows we are getting great depth finally!

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

FB: Clisby Frawley Garland

HB: Terlich McDonald Grimes

C: Toumpas Jones Evans

HF: Sylvia Dawes Howe

FF: Hogan Clark Byrnes

Foll: Gawn Viney McKenzie

Int: Kent Trengove Watts ******

Obviously the ones Roos named in his article are the main stays. I think Terlich with a preseason of defensive coaching will improve. He does stick to an opponent and play well up the ground, it's just deep under pressure that he struggles. And his kicking was good early in the year, people made too much of one error when he was getting it 25 times with no one to kick to. Clisby is another who might just be a Roos special with the way he runs aggressively and is a decent defender. If Roos is smart he will go for smarter footballers who need more work like Clisby over dumb ones.

Up forward I think the 3 big guys pick themselves and I think Clark will start as the back up ruck if healthy. Roos has no aversion to a lot of talls but unless he hits the mature age market hard he'll know he needs guys who can rotate into the midfield to make up the run. That's why Sylvia and Byrnes are named forward and Clark is the second ruck.

I'm hoping Gawn has a huge off season and stands out as the number 1 ruck, his competitiveness should come through. The midfield is a big question mark. Again it's futile to predict which if any mature players we can attract. Barring that I have faith in Toumpas, Evans, Kent and Trengove. If Evans gets a fit AFL body he can mix it at the level and is a competitor. Trenners of course gets in. And I really like how Kent got better as the season went on, that's a really good sign. Toumpas might not be an ideal round 1 Roos player but if he comes on after a preseason he will continue to be our best kick of the footy.

Watts is the biggest question mark at all. Personally I'm not putting him in a forward 50 when I've got Hogan, Dawes and Clark available. That's 3 guys who will either take contested marks or halve contests all day long and chase and pressure when the ball does hit the deck. I'm looking for a position that uses Watts speed, skills and visions. So be that half back, wing or half forward up the ground I'm not sure. The first thing I'd do if I was Paul Roos would be to have a huge heart to heart open chat with Watts and if he wanted out I'd explain if the deal is right he can go. If he wanted in then I'd explain his skills and weaknesses and just what I'd do about them.

how come so many have Clisby in for round 1 - am I missing something here ? was he even tearing it up at Casey ?

[Little Richard 6,216]

how come so many have Clisby in for round 1 - am I missing something here ? was he even tearing it up at Casey ?

Did you not see him play a number of good games for MFC?

[stuie 7,374]

There's even less chance than Hogan being a back up ruck, sorry. Clark, maybe, but we'd be putting his foot at risk and came to Melbourne in part to avoid rucking. And we have three specialist ruckmen and Fitzpatrick on the list.

When Roos discussed Watts and midfield in the same sentence, I just don't think he meant as a ruckman. That's all I'm saying...

And how'd it go this year when we had Gawn and Spencer in the same team...

[Little Goffy 14,029]

MELBOURNE

B: Garland Frawley Terlich

HB: Grimes McDonald Cross

C: Tyson Jones Watts

HF: M.Jones? Hogan Howe

F: Clark Dawes Byrnes

R: Jamar? Trengrove Vince

I/C: Viney Toumpas?

McKenzie? Blease? Fitzpatrick? Jetta? Evans? Michie? Tapscott? Spencer? Evans?

[Demoneyes 562]

B: Colin Garland James Frawley Jack Grimes

HB: Viv Michie Tom Mcdonald Bernie Vince

C: Daniel Cross Nathan Jones Dom Tyson

HF: Jeremy Howe Mitch Clark Jack Trengove

F: Michael Evans Jesse Hogan Jack Fitpatrick

FOL: Mark Jamar Jack Watts Jack Viney

I/C: Jordie Mckenzie Jimmy Toumpas Chris Dawes

SUB: Sam Blease

Apologies to: Mitch Clisby, Lyndon Dunn, Dean Kent, Matt Jones, Dean Terlich, Max Gawn, Jake Spencer and anyone else I've forgotten!

[Demoneyes 562]

And haven't included our ND draft picks as don't know who they will be, but if Freeman at 9 would swap with McKenzie