Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[hardtack 10,626]

ASADA rejects AFL players requests

Wow... I think they are digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves at Essendon:

While all claim to represent the interest of the players and/or Australian sport, the advice as to remedial actions varies dramatically.

In my role as protector of clean athletes in Australia, my advice to them is that if they want to act in the best interest of the players they should review the 12,000 pages of evidence and follow the due process.

I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Like ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

Listening to Rohan Conolly is quite humorous.

[bing181 9,328]

"ASADA's statement revealed it had written to the players' association's legal team to "remind" them the ADRVP was a "separate and independent body to ASADA and the CEO has no legal power to direct the function of the ADRVP or to dictate the timing of its consideration of cases".

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

I don't think the AFLPA has represented it's clients and their interests very well in this matter.

[biggestred 5,138]

One of the great smackdowns.

ASADA has played this by the book since day 1.

[daisycutter 29,737]

one of the great smackdowns.

ASADA has played this by the book since day 1.

i wouldn't go so far as saying that bt

[deefrag 277]

Hot on the heels of their asbestos statement the AFLPA again prove their worth "Oh you mean there is a process we should follow??".

I guess it's hard to see the big picture when your head is up your A##!

[biggestred 5,138]

i wouldn't go so far as saying that bt

well, asada havent leaked anything - they had the AFP and deloite investigate for potential leaks and found none

they may not have been ridiculously efficient but theyve had governments try and meddle, the media pasting them, theyve been under-resourced and undertaken a massive investigation in consultation with the ACC... and they havent put a foot wrong. just kept on investigating (legally), defended their legal investigation and have finally issued SCN with way more evidence than needed.

they have followed procedure every step of the way so far.

[Qwerty30 196]

well, asada havent leaked anything - they had the AFP and deloite investigate for potential leaks and found none

they may not have been ridiculously efficient but theyve had governments try and meddle, the media pasting them, theyve been under-resourced and undertaken a massive investigation in consultation with the ACC... and they havent put a foot wrong. just kept on investigating (legally), defended their legal investigation and have finally issued SCN with way more evidence than needed.

they have followed procedure every step of the way so far.

The AFP and Deloittes Investigation may have mitigated the likelihood somewhat of a leak and their reports support a narrative for those that claim they did not leak but it's far from conclusive.

While ASADA have at times been unfairly targeted by the politicians and EFC, at times, their processes have been slipshod. But your other comments on resources for an unprecedented dual investigation into 2 major sporting clubs are on the money.

[biggestred 5,138]

their internal process might be a bit slipshod but they have followed the external anti drug code violation processes to the letter.

[daisycutter 29,737]

their internal process might be a bit slipshod but they have followed the external anti drug code violation processes to the letter.

there is the issue of how they handled the joint investigation with the afl

not that they did one but they could have handled it and especially the afl a bit better

then there is the allegation that someone in asada gave misleading or misinformation on aod

we will probably never know the true story on that

but they could have handled the situation re aod a bit better publicly

the issues over deal-making also seemed to be handled rather amateurishly at times

your comments on non-leaking and sticking to procedure are accurate with maybe the interim report an exception

i get the feeling that if it was replayed asada might do it slightly differently but i don't mean that too ctritically

just thought that saying they didn't put a foot wrong was a tad generous

Edited October 23, 2014 by daisycutter

[beelzebub 23,383]

ASADA basically telling the AFLPA to ... [censored]

A return of fire with passion from Ben and the boys (and girls).

The AFLPA clearly don't get it ... never have, they're blinkered, conflicted and essentially ignorant.

I'd be worried as a parent, they're fwits.

[Flying Cloud 152]

I don't think the AFLPA has represented it's clients and their interests very well in this matter.

I think the AFLPA have been woeful in this. Their position is and has always been hopelessly conflicted, but they don't realize it. They have been dragged into the politics of it all and are being bamboozled by high powered publicity seeking legal practitioners when they should be placing the interests and welfare of all AFL players as their priority. This includes the right of all AFL players to compete in an environment free of banned drugs.

The AFLPA do have certain responsibilities to the Essendon 34 such as ensuring they receive a fair hearing, and should be outspoken if this is not the case. However the AFLPA cannot possibly know if the Essendon 34 are guilty or not and therefore should limit their support. The AFLPA should not be spokesmen for the Essendon 34, because to do so may ultimately result in the AFLPA being shown to have supported drug cheats to the detriment of the vast majority of their members.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I have to say my recollection of Jobe's interview aligns more with you than with Jack. I don't remember him being cocky about it. He seemed confident that what he took was legal.

Personally I'm not dancing on any graves. I just want the Essendon players to be punished proportionately to what happened. 2 year bans like any other athlete on the world stage would get, none of the backdating crapola that effectively reduces the punishment.

I think a lot of the anger on here is because we can see the players getting off lightly and we just want them treated as they would be if they were playing any other sport (or club). Also there's a bit of a victim mentality when it comes to the MFC, which is probably justifiable after the tanking issue. To have so many clubs clearly do the same thing but only us be punished for it is a scar on our supporters' psyche.

The NRL players got off far too lightly. If it happens with Essendon, which was a much much more institutionalised program, then Australian sport is officially a joke.

The NRL was entirely different from Essendon:

1. They cooperated from the start and didn't try to use their financial and political muscle to weasel their way out of what they had done.

2. Their doping programme was not systematic and lasted no more than several weeks.

3. They were also prepared to deal early with ASADA,

Essendin are gone, far more seriously than many on here realise.

[monoccular 17,573]

ASADA basically telling the AFLPA to ... [censored]

A return of fire with passion from Ben and the boys (and girls).

The AFLPA clearly don't get it ... never have, they're blinkered, conflicted and essentially ignorant.

I'd be worried as a parent, they're fwits.

I particularly like these two paragraphs:

"In my role as protector of clean athletes in Australia, my advice to them is that if they want to act in the best interest of the players they should review the 12,000 pages of evidence and follow the due process.

"I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012."

He isn't going to give in without a fight.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I find it interesting that our assumption is that the AFL tribunal will attempt to make a political best case scenario ruling based on PR and dollars over one based on evidence.

Does the AFL even care that they are seen this way?

No one even assumes this will be a fair tribunal. The assumption is that the AFL will manufacture an outcome that it is its own best interest.

I'm already angry and the "hearing" hasn't even happened yet.

They may do, but then WADA will step in and appeal. When this happens, if you look at cases internationally, WADA mostly wins.

[Dees2014 2,377]

That is one of the most intelligent opinions I've heard from an Essendon fan. And it's always the supporters who suffer the most (although in this case the players are struggling too), when Melbourne was going through the non-tanking saga it was akin to watching a family member struggle with a health issue. It was just on my mind 24/7. It's also good to hear that despite everything you will continue to support the club. I remembered some people questioned why I kept buying a membership with what was happening and I explained that a membership was a sign of support to the current regime it was a show of unending support for the club I love.

Do you feel that the only reason Hird is going to continue coaching is that the club has painted themselves into a corner or do you feel that the current regime genuinely supports him? If the bombers start the season with 9 losses, could the board use that as a quick fire measure to sack him?

For Essendon to move forward from this saga, at some point they need to remove all who involved in this and start fresh. Otherwise it'll never stop.

On a slightly unrelated point, is anyone else getting a little bit of sick pleasure from Caro being proven wrong in the end? It's nothing really against her in particular, I just like see footy reporters getting stories wrong and looking like fools. Barrett next would be great, problem is he deals so much in vagueness that he finds a way to slither out of it.

How has Caro been proven wrong? She and Patrick Smith IMO are the only two journalists who have been consistently right. If you want someone in the most senior afl writer post who is ALWAYS wrong, have a look at that [censored] Mark Robinson. I know Caro knows a hell of a lot more about this than she is able to write about (for legal reasons) and she believes (as Smith does) that everything will be revealed in the end. She is hugely confident that Essendon (in their present form) will be finished by it, Hird's career will be over, little will go, and at least some Essendon directors will end up in jail. Financially they will be broken by the extensive litigation which will come at them over the next five years.this is far from over...

[Dees2014 2,377]

ASADA basically telling the AFLPA to ... [censored]

A return of fire with passion from Ben and the boys (and girls).

The AFLPA clearly don't get it ... never have, they're blinkered, conflicted and essentially ignorant.

I'd be worried as a parent, they're fwits.

And I might add not acting in the overall interest of ALL AFL players which they are required to do. They are acting in the narrow interests (as defined by their money hungry lawyers) of the Essendon players, and even that is highly debatable.

[Whispering_Jack 30,641]

ASADA basically telling the AFLPA to ... [censored]

A return of fire with passion from Ben and the boys (and girls).

The AFLPA clearly don't get it ... never have, they're blinkered, conflicted and essentially ignorant.

I'd be worried as a parent, they're fwits.

This McDevitt is sounding a far cry away from the McDevitt who doled out soft deals to the NRL players who co-operated with ASADA and the McDevitt who offered the AFL players 6 month bans back in June.

Why is he so much less conciliatory now?

My guess is that the heavies at the top of WADA have told him to stop acting like a cop out to get his man and get his quota of individual convictions and start acting more like a person charged with upholding the WADA Code which is there for the protection of athletes and sport on a world-wide level.

In other words, let the system play itself out and justice be done. If after a hearing, it is determined that the AFL players have a defence under the laws, they should get off without penalty. If not, the appropriate sanctions should apply and if necessary, the ultimate determinant should be the Court of Arbitration in Sports. There might still be time for deals but I suspect that, with WADA behind this tougher stance, the deals won't be anywhere near as lenient as they were with the NRL.

The media is as usual, a long way behind. Last night Chip Le Grand of the Australian was nominated for a Walkeley in the footsteps of Caro before him. Both have been off the mark in terms of the detail of this saga but the people who really deserve the credit are Roy Masters of the Sydney Morning Herald who highlighted the difference in approach of the NRL and AFL and Baker and McKenzie of the same paper whose investigative work caused Dank to sink. And on that note there's a lot more to come.

[monoccular 17,573]

They may do, but then WADA will step in and appeal. When this happens, if you look at cases internationally, WADA mostly wins.

Does anyone actually know, were WADA to appeal the leniency of any sentence, whether players would be eligible pending that appeal, and how long the Court of Arbitration in Sport tends to take to hear such appeals? If it were years then many players could in effect get off Scot free, other than carrying a black reputation. I guess that could be part of EssUndone's whole obfuscation plan.

Presumably there have been precedents.

[Crompton's the man 659]

They're very few parties seeking that the truth these events comes out.

The AFLPA must necessarily seek the minimum possible impact on the players' careers ; what they really think about the radical biochemical plan must remain hidden from public view because to lambast the administrators of the EFC necessarily entails the tacit admission of wrongdoing (which does not serve the purposes of the constituency and so will not happen)

The AFL is in a similar position to that of a State Government faced with the dilemma of curtailing the gaming industry - the symbiosis is beyond conflict of interest to the extent that it is sadly naive to expect a real outcome from that direction.

The EFC is not entirely unaware of this : hence the interminable blustering and delaying and creating various litigant parties all dedicated to trying to create confusion in the process with the aim of finding an exploitable chink. Quite a clever strategy really and inclined to move supporters to tears when the violins begin to play accompanying the refrain "Delay, delay - we never sought the delay"

Meanwhile back at headquarters the troops are kept in line with a series of wink wink nudge nudge internal briefings that say " well we can't publicly tell you what was in those injections but what we can assure you is that we would NEVER have approved anyithing unsafe"

The constant beating of lawyers' drums is eroding the will to do the right thing ......

What deal will ASADA agree to so the sad circus stops performing ?

[rjay 25,087]

"I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012."

The AFLPA and player managers have been hiding behind the no disclosure forms the players signed for long enough in my view. There is no chance that they didn't know what was going on at Essendon and they needed to put the welfare of their players first back in 2012 as McDevitt states.

[chookrat 4,268]

It will be interesting in the washup from all of this, whether:

1. The gravity if what took plave at windy hill in 2012 and ramifications for the club are so severe that it explains the EFC's behavior to obstruct the investigation using any means necessary. E.g. Will there be criminal charges against board members, the length of bans and player legal action against the club crippling the club for the next 10 years.

2.the program was less serious then the public were led to believe and had the club took its medicine, admitted fault, the coach served his suspension , players accepted a deal, this would all be behind the club and it would be preparing for 2015 campaign with expevtations to play deep into September.

Little doesn't strike me as a fool so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[beelzebub 23,383]

This new desire to expedite things wouldn't have anything to do with .......

approval of 4 year bans ??