Concussion, the big sleeper.

[bush demon 2,062]

Forget about using mindbending substances to bend one through the big sticks. Class litigation and civil actions against authorities for allowing players to repeatedly play soon after suffering concussion will be the next-big-thing in sport. I would like to propose a Headbangers Cup for 2013, with Jimmy Bartel and Kurt Tippett currently in pole positions for Round One on five concussions (2012) each. This problem goes across many contact sports including boxing (think currently ailing Muhammed Ali and now slurry Evander Holyfield) soccer and the various forms of rugby and grid iron. The long term neural impact and legal minefield of these contact sports was spelt out on ABC last year (Four Corners I think). It is worst in American football.

[rjay 25,087]

Might want to add Jude Bolton to the fight for pole.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Paddy Dangerfield too.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

If the AFL are watching what is happening in the states they will clamp down on concussed players being able to play. There are awful cases of ex NFL players killing themselves and players not having any short term memory at all. It is disturbing and I hope we never see any cases like this on our shores.

[Outside fifty 967]

Bit of blue sky mining here but maybe the answer is to take medical care and welfare of the players away from the individual clubs and placing into the hands of the AFL. A pool of medico could rotate through the clubs on a rostered basis. Due to continuity the medicos would need to spend a reasonable time at each club, maybe a season at a time and then rotate. They would have no allegiance or obligation to the individual clubs and could operate entirely independantly of the club. They would be paid for by the AFL and answerable only to them. The players welfare would be their only concern and clubs would be unable to influence their decisions as to whether a player takes the field or not.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Anyone remember the tail end of Dean Kemp's career?

John Blakey?

[Striker475 696]

NFL is different. The problem in NFL that the AFL doesn't have is that repeat-force collision stuff. If you watch NFL you know what I mean - a Junior Seau, who is the most recent and famous case, played linebacker. A linebacker's job is either to work in coverage, or more importantly, function in a blitz - where multiple guys attempt to rush the QB. Their goal is to gain speed and hit as hard as they can, repeatedly. You're talking 15-16 times a game, sprinting at full speed, running into a 100kg guy who is pushing back at you.

The AFL doesn't have those kinds of collisions. Pure and simple. You'll find the NFL will have less problems proportionally among quarterbacks and special teamers because they aren't taking the same frequency of hits.

In terms of the AFL, there's only one REAL possible case of what the NFL calls CTE - Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - that I know of; that's Daniel Bell. No other cases have been identified as of yet (publicly), but cases out of the 1980s where we had [censored] like Derm's kidney should have happened. They haven't.

It's a problem, but frankly it's being overblown because of the NFL's problems. It's simply not the same.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

NFL is different. The problem in NFL that the AFL doesn't have is that repeat-force collision stuff. If you watch NFL you know what I mean - a Junior Seau, who is the most recent and famous case, played linebacker. A linebacker's job is either to work in coverage, or more importantly, function in a blitz - where multiple guys attempt to rush the QB. Their goal is to gain speed and hit as hard as they can, repeatedly. You're talking 15-16 times a game, sprinting at full speed, running into a 100kg guy who is pushing back at you.

The AFL doesn't have those kinds of collisions. Pure and simple. You'll find the NFL will have less problems proportionally among quarterbacks and special teamers because they aren't taking the same frequency of hits.

In terms of the AFL, there's only one REAL possible case of what the NFL calls CTE - Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - that I know of; that's Daniel Bell. No other cases have been identified as of yet (publicly), but cases out of the 1980s where we had [censored] like Derm's kidney should have happened. They haven't.

It's a problem, but frankly it's being overblown because of the NFL's problems. It's simply not the same.

You may be right that it is not as big a problem as it is in the states. It depends on the style of game the AFL becomes. All clubs are like sheep when it comes to tactics. If the game stays as a contested ball style of game we may see more cases of CTE in some years to come.

Edited February 10, 2013 by cowboy_from_hell

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Concussions can cause short-term memory loss.

Concussions can cause short-term memory loss.

[demoniac 1,336]

The NFL has a major problem. Their insurance premiums must be skyrocketing at high school, college and NFL levels. One stat I read said that 17 out of the 19 brains of NFL players who died prematurely and had mental health issues prior to their death showed clears signs of concussion related damage just like punch drunk boxers. Its obviously a mix of tackling technique and the brute force of the defensive players. One US college put sensors inside the helmets of players at all training and games. Their conclusion was that it was not just the high impact colliosions that were of concern. The repeated low impact collisions were also a concern.

From what I've read the NFL has identified better tackling technique as a way forward to minimise the risk but it seems obvious that they need to deal with the size of defensive players. Introducing a fair dinkum drug testing regime would be a start as its an understatement to say their testing is not WADA compliant.. But if that does not work then they need to do the unthinkable and get read of the separate offense and defence teams so more endurance is required. Hurrying up play would be a less radical step which would also increase the endurance level required. That former may sound radical but ultimately it'll be the insurers that decide. They are currently sorting out who insured the NFL in what years to see which insurance companies are liable for the years covered by affected players careers.

The AFL has made some fairly obvious changes to the rules to protect players from concussion. For some fans the move to make the head sacrosanct and make any contact to the head illegal has been seen to make the game softer. Of course its not their brains on the line I guess. Our game required more endurance than NFL but our players are still well built and quick enough to cause high impact collisions of the nature that cause concussion.

[bush demon 2,062]

I saw Daniel Bell take a massive hit a couple of years ago out at Casey Fields. Seemed to me he didn't see the guy coming because of lack of peripheral vision. More amazing than the sound of the hit was the way he got up again.

[Striker475 696]

You may be right that it is not as big a problem as it is in the states. It depends on the style of game the AFL becomes. All clubs are like sheep when it comes to tactics. If the game stays as a contested ball style of game we may see more cases of CTE in some years to come.

I don't think it can. Even with contested football as we're seeing it's not generating those sorts of collisions that the NFL get.

The NFL tackles have one guy specifically trying to block and stop the momentum that another guy has. Think of it like a car crash with the seatbelt - you've got that forward momentum, the seatbelt locks and you're stopped and thrown backward. It's that kind of incident with less force, but with head impact added and made to repeat for years - high school (2-3 years), college (3 years) and NFL for however long.

The AFL doesn't have that. The vast majority of our tackles don't see those awful head impacts with the ground, and when we do see them they're remarked upon. Furthermore, they don't have that car-crash style force that the NFL has, because it's tackle-and-evade rather than tackle-and-block. Finally, there's also the disposal point; NFL players can't really get rid of the ball in order to prevent the hit, while AFL players generally do.

It may happen, but it's much less likely because of the simple mechanics of AFL.

[Striker475 696]

I saw Daniel Bell take a massive hit a couple of years ago out at Casey Fields. Seemed to me he didn't see the guy coming because of lack of peripheral vision. More amazing than the sound of the hit was the way he got up again.

There was an article years ago where he has had issues even when he was playing, can't remember if his vision was actually affected.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I don't think it can. Even with contested football as we're seeing it's not generating those sorts of collisions that the NFL get.

The NFL tackles have one guy specifically trying to block and stop the momentum that another guy has. Think of it like a car crash with the seatbelt - you've got that forward momentum, the seatbelt locks and you're stopped and thrown backward. It's that kind of incident with less force, but with head impact added and made to repeat for years - high school (2-3 years), college (3 years) and NFL for however long.

The AFL doesn't have that. The vast majority of our tackles don't see those awful head impacts with the ground, and when we do see them they're remarked upon. Furthermore, they don't have that car-crash style force that the NFL has, because it's tackle-and-evade rather than tackle-and-block. Finally, there's also the disposal point; NFL players can't really get rid of the ball in order to prevent the hit, while AFL players generally do.

It may happen, but it's much less likely because of the simple mechanics of AFL.

I'm a big fan of NFL and understand that head on head contact is a million times worse in the NFL. The AFL has big hits but not as often. Pretty sure it was Jude Bolton who had been smacked in the head 3 times in a game last year. He received a free kick on the last hit and was stumbling around and couldn't control his movements. It was a very bad look for the game. Anyone who would argue helmets are required in the AFL are wrong they are part of the problem in the NFL as they are used as a battering ram. I just hope that the AFL keep on top of concussions. I feel for Bell and Dean Kemp who have both had issues.

[TRIGON 4,790]

My field of business sees me working in with neuropsychologists rehabilitating athletes who have suffered sporting brain injuries.

On the question of NFL v AFL hits the feedback is that yes - there are more frequent hits in NFL, however because of the rotational forces involved in rugby and AFL, the consequences of the hits can be even worse - it has a shearing effect on structure of the brain.

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

Surprised no one has mentioned jack grimes..

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We kept Bail out for several weeks last year after he suffered concussion, so either we are more cautious than others or it was a particularly bad case.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Belly got cleaned up by Johnson in a horrible head high / neck collision....I don't believe he ever really recovered.

Long's hit on Simmonds was another shocker.

Edit...forgot Gia's hit on Kosi...that was brutal.

Edited February 10, 2013 by jumbo returns

[Guest José Mourinho]

Tony Lockett on Peter Caven...

[DemonWA 3,936]

We kept Bail out for several weeks last year after he suffered concussion, so either we are more cautious than others or it was a particularly bad case.

Or he self reported drug use and was deemed unfit to play

Joke!

[bush demon 2,062]

Another sad statistic of this blight on our code:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/greg-williams-reveals-memories-of-sporting-highlights-and-personal-life-are-fading/story-e6frf9jf-1226584178926

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

Let me firstly say I think concussion is a massive injury and a threat to our game. The game will survive but players who have multiple concussion may be forced to retire very early.

But I'm not fully convinced on Greg Williams. I don't think CTE is an established diagnosis yet. We know the brain has changes in these athletes thanks to the work in the US, but if I was Greg Williams I'd be getting a full workup and getting a variety of opinions about diagnosis and management before I'd say I'm losing my mind and footy is to blame.

[Biffen 12,947]

My field of business sees me working in with neuropsychologists rehabilitating athletes who have suffered sporting brain injuries.

On the question of NFL v AFL hits the feedback is that yes - there are more frequent hits in NFL, however because of the rotational forces involved in rugby and AFL, the consequences of the hits can be even worse - it has a shearing effect on structure of the brain.

So really, you no nothing about this topic.Leave it to the couch and keyboard men here and we will find the answer.

[old dee 23,872]

So really, you no nothing about this topic.Leave it to the couch and keyboard men here and we will find the answer.

Amazing the coincidences in life on Sunday night channel 7 to night there is a program about concussion.

I understand it is good program.

Also heard a USA expert say last week that all episodes of concussion cause damage even one.

There is no safe level.

Easy for me to say but I reckon Bail should give up football.

[monoccular 17,573]

Forget about using mindbending substances to bend one through the big sticks. Class litigation and civil actions against authorities for allowing players to repeatedly play soon after suffering concussion will be the next-big-thing in sport. I would like to propose a Headbangers Cup for 2013, with Jimmy Bartel and Kurt Tippett currently in pole positions for Round One on five concussions (2012) each. This problem goes across many contact sports including boxing (think currently ailing Muhammed Ali and now slurry Evander Holyfield) soccer and the various forms of rugby and grid iron. The long term neural impact and legal minefield of these contact sports was spelt out on ABC last year (Four Corners I think). It is worst in American football.

Might want to add Jude Bolton to the fight for pole.

Paddy Dangerfield too.

Rohan Bail?

As I mentioned in another post, it may be best for Rohan and for the club for Rohan to call it time before any further damage is done.

I would imagine that O'Dea vs Greening would nowadays end up in court.