Champion Data rates the team lists

[old55 23,609]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/champion-data-rankings-suggest-2013-afl-premiership-is-hawthorns-to-lose-west-coast-set-to-soar/story-e6frf3e3-1226536563832?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

1. Hawthorn (Defenders 2nd, Midfield 9th, Forwards 1st)
2. West Coast (Defenders 4th, Midfield 7th, Forwards 4th)
3. Sydney (Defenders 3rd, Midfield 2nd, Forwards 11th)
4. Fremantle (Defenders 10th, Midfield 5th, Forwards 3rd)
5. Collingwood (Defenders 5th, Midfield 1st, Forwards 14th)
6. Adelaide (Defenders 6th, Midfield 4th, Forwards 6th)
7. Geelong (Defenders 1st, Midfield 8th, Forwards 12th)
8. Essendon (Defenders 7th, Midfield 10th, Forwards 5th)
9. Carlton (Defenders 14th, Midfield 3rd, Forwards 2nd)
10. Richmond (Defenders 13th, Midfield 6th, Forwards 6th)
11. North Melbourne (Defenders 11th, Midfielders 11th, Forwards 9th)
12. St. Kilda (Defenders 8th, Midfield 13th, Forwards 13th)
13. Melbourne (Defenders 12th, Midfield 16th, Forwards 8th)
14. Brisbane (Defenders 9th, Midfield 14th, Forwards 15th)
15. Western Bulldogs (Defenders 17th, Midfield 15th, Forwards 10th)
16. Gold Coast (Defenders 15th, Midfield 17th, Forwards 16th)
17. Port Adelaide (Defenders 18th, Midfield 12th, Forwards 17th)
18. GWS (Defenders 16th, Midfield 18th, Forwards 18th)

Our midfield 3rd worst with GC and GWS only behind us.

[beelzebub 23,379]

Logically most data would nned to be based on historical input. Where there isn't any what happens ?

Id take it all with a grain of salt. Just stats extrapolated to some persons algorithm.

These things are never terribly accurate I reckon

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,807]

Can't be right. Surely Richmond must be 9th on any list before the season starts.

[H_T 3,048]

Pretty much where I'd rank our team "at best" next season. 13th. Which is an improvement - but not a significant improvement as some are expecting.

That said, I would like to be surprised with a significant improvement.

[rjay 24,939]

Logically most data would nned to be based on historical input. Where there isn't any what happens ?

Id take it all with a grain of salt. Just stats extrapolated to some persons algorithm.

These things are never terribly accurate I reckon

Agree with you on this 'BB', listening to the guy on SEN the other day it was all about last season.

Would be interesting to get their ratings from this time last year and see how it stacked up against the 2012 season.

[Ouch! 2,263]

Interesting when you read the article, that Ablett is the top rated midfielder, yet the GC midfield is rated 17th.

Some of the ratings seem odd. How does Carlton have the second best forward structure in the game? Yet Sydney has the 11th best?

Sometimes the stats are misleading!

So the Hawks get to add Brian Lake to their defence and suddenly it's the second best defence in the league, Tippett must have apparently made the Sydney forward structure slide

Edited December 13, 2012 by Oucher

[mauriesy 7,299]

How did Carlton get the 2nd-best forward line rating? They've got Garlett and Betts, plus Waite for a few games a year.

[PaulRB 6,372]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/champion-data-rankings-suggest-2013-afl-premiership-is-hawthorns-to-lose-west-coast-set-to-soar/story-e6frf3e3-1226536563832?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

1. Hawthorn (Defenders 2nd, Midfield 9th, Forwards 1st)

2. West Coast (Defenders 4th, Midfield 7th, Forwards 4th)

3. Sydney (Defenders 3rd, Midfield 2nd, Forwards 11th)

4. Fremantle (Defenders 10th, Midfield 5th, Forwards 3rd)

5. Collingwood (Defenders 5th, Midfield 1st, Forwards 14th)

6. Adelaide (Defenders 6th, Midfield 4th, Forwards 6th)

7. Geelong (Defenders 1st, Midfield 8th, Forwards 12th)

8. Essendon (Defenders 7th, Midfield 10th, Forwards 5th)

9. Carlton (Defenders 14th, Midfield 3rd, Forwards 2nd)

10. Richmond (Defenders 13th, Midfield 6th, Forwards 6th)

11. North Melbourne (Defenders 11th, Midfielders 11th, Forwards 9th)

12. St. Kilda (Defenders 8th, Midfield 13th, Forwards 13th)

13. Melbourne (Defenders 12th, Midfield 16th, Forwards 8th)

14. Brisbane (Defenders 9th, Midfield 14th, Forwards 15th)

15. Western Bulldogs (Defenders 17th, Midfield 15th, Forwards 10th)

16. Gold Coast (Defenders 15th, Midfield 17th, Forwards 16th)

17. Port Adelaide (Defenders 18th, Midfield 12th, Forwards 17th)

18. GWS (Defenders 16th, Midfield 18th, Forwards 18th)

Our midfield 3rd worst with GC and GWS only behind us.

Interesting, and obviously to be taken with a grain or two of salt, however it indicates that top 8 teams need to be either

1. in the top 8 across all three areas (Adelaide), or
2. top 4 in the midfield and top 8 in another area (Sydney).

Being top 4 in two of these categories (incl midfield) puts you in top 4. HAwks are an interesting exception with their 9th in midfield offset by 1 and 2 for forward and back...

Highlights the critical need we have to fast track the development of our midfield as this in turn drives up the performance stats for the forward and backs.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I'm interested in this type of analysis but unless its historical, quantitative data going back at least 3 years then its pretty much opinion.

Good in tedms of our forward, and well we all knos our midfield has been rubbish.

St. Kilda got a bit of a bashing

[beelzebub 23,379]

Agree with you on this 'BB', listening to the guy on SEN the other day it was all about last season.

Would be interesting to get their ratings from this time last year and see how it stacked up against the 2012 season.

when you then factor in that probablt half.... not a bit,but half the first 22 Will be different it just makes a mockery of these data analyses.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Bet it doesn't take into effect the nett effect of each line's infuence on each other ie a poor midfield will render a forward line and back line considerably worse etc.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/champion-data-rankings-suggest-2013-afl-premiership-is-hawthorns-to-lose-west-coast-set-to-soar/story-e6frf3e3-1226536563832?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

1. Hawthorn (Defenders 2nd, Midfield 9th, Forwards 1st)

2. West Coast (Defenders 4th, Midfield 7th, Forwards 4th)

3. Sydney (Defenders 3rd, Midfield 2nd, Forwards 11th)

4. Fremantle (Defenders 10th, Midfield 5th, Forwards 3rd)

5. Collingwood (Defenders 5th, Midfield 1st, Forwards 14th)

6. Adelaide (Defenders 6th, Midfield 4th, Forwards 6th)

7. Geelong (Defenders 1st, Midfield 8th, Forwards 12th)

8. Essendon (Defenders 7th, Midfield 10th, Forwards 5th)

9. Carlton (Defenders 14th, Midfield 3rd, Forwards 2nd)

10. Richmond (Defenders 13th, Midfield 6th, Forwards 6th)

11. North Melbourne (Defenders 11th, Midfielders 11th, Forwards 9th)

12. St. Kilda (Defenders 8th, Midfield 13th, Forwards 13th)

13. Melbourne (Defenders 12th, Midfield 16th, Forwards 8th)

14. Brisbane (Defenders 9th, Midfield 14th, Forwards 15th)

15. Western Bulldogs (Defenders 17th, Midfield 15th, Forwards 10th)

16. Gold Coast (Defenders 15th, Midfield 17th, Forwards 16th)

17. Port Adelaide (Defenders 18th, Midfield 12th, Forwards 17th)

18. GWS (Defenders 16th, Midfield 18th, Forwards 18th)

Our midfield 3rd worst with GC and GWS only behind us.

I would have also thought we'd be behind GC in midfield.

[Supermercado 2,797]

Having tipped us for 13th I'm pleased Champion Data are on board.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I would have also thought we'd be behind GC in midfield.

Give us a break.

GCS was one of the teams we beat in the midfield last season.

[Slartibartfast 17,309]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/champion-data-rankings-suggest-2013-afl-premiership-is-hawthorns-to-lose-west-coast-set-to-soar/story-e6frf3e3-1226536563832?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

1. Hawthorn (Defenders 2nd, Midfield 9th, Forwards 1st)

2. West Coast (Defenders 4th, Midfield 7th, Forwards 4th)

3. Sydney (Defenders 3rd, Midfield 2nd, Forwards 11th)

4. Fremantle (Defenders 10th, Midfield 5th, Forwards 3rd)

5. Collingwood (Defenders 5th, Midfield 1st, Forwards 14th)

6. Adelaide (Defenders 6th, Midfield 4th, Forwards 6th)

7. Geelong (Defenders 1st, Midfield 8th, Forwards 12th)

8. Essendon (Defenders 7th, Midfield 10th, Forwards 5th)

9. Carlton (Defenders 14th, Midfield 3rd, Forwards 2nd)

10. Richmond (Defenders 13th, Midfield 6th, Forwards 6th)

11. North Melbourne (Defenders 11th, Midfielders 11th, Forwards 9th)

12. St. Kilda (Defenders 8th, Midfield 13th, Forwards 13th)

13. Melbourne (Defenders 12th, Midfield 16th, Forwards 8th)

14. Brisbane (Defenders 9th, Midfield 14th, Forwards 15th)

15. Western Bulldogs (Defenders 17th, Midfield 15th, Forwards 10th)

16. Gold Coast (Defenders 15th, Midfield 17th, Forwards 16th)

17. Port Adelaide (Defenders 18th, Midfield 12th, Forwards 17th)

18. GWS (Defenders 16th, Midfield 18th, Forwards 18th)

Our midfield 3rd worst with GC and GWS only behind us.

I wonder how that would change if you used a "best 22" basis. I'm surprised our midfield is ahead of GC as Ablett, Swallow and Bennell would cover anything we've got I'd have thought.

Edit: Sorry, hadn't seen the GC comments prior to his, I obviously agree.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Fan

[Jordie_tackles 354]

The only thing a think we were stiff on is the Defence, as good as the forward line imo, probably deserves to be in the 8-10 category.

Midfield is poor and will be until Toumpas, Viney and one other step up imo

Forwards are around the mark but is hard to say with Clark and Dawes having a combined 10 or so MFC matches

[dworship 3,342]

Pretty much where I'd rank our team "at best" next season. 13th. Which is an improvement - but not a significant improvement as some are expecting.

That said, I would like to be surprised with a significant improvement.

I don't know about "at best", if we are expected to beat everyone below us on that list our draw then gives us 9 wins which would be around the 13th mark.

We only need to beat a couple of the next tier teams to suddenly get us into contention for the 8. Belief and momentum are wonderful things and the kind of thing you can't factor into stats. I see the first few games as critical to our "best". Roll PA, Bombers and have a good showing against WC at the "G" and suddenly we are away.

Contrast this with not winning a game until round 10 this year and I might just take a little of those odds being offered for us making the 8.

If you also then factor in our improved fitness our "best" might surprise a few people.

[Supermercado 2,797]

Give us a break.

GCS was one of the teams we beat in the midfield last season.

Points victory at best - Ablett and Bennell ran riot all day. Shame (for them) that the rest of their teammates rolled over and died in Q1 because they were as good as us if not better over the next three.

[P-man 13,366]

I wouldn't mind someone explaining to me how Carlton have the 2nd best forwardline in the competition.

edit: I see maurie shared this view. lol

Edited December 14, 2012 by P_Man

[rjay 24,939]

I wouldn't mind someone explaining to me how Carlton have the 2nd best forwardline in the competition.

edit: I see maurie shared this view. lol

It really isn't explainable is it? I guess it shows how stats and things like dream team at times bare little similarity with what is actually happening on the ground in a game of football.

Carlton have a huge weakness in converting opportunities in their forward half so they are ranked 2. Everyone knows Hawthorns achilles is their defence, they are ranked 2.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

It really isn't explainable is it? I guess it shows how stats and things like dream team at times bare little similarity with what is actually happening on the ground in a game of football.

Carlton have a huge weakness in converting opportunities in their forward half so they are ranked 2. Everyone knows Hawthorns achilles is their defence, they are ranked 2.

yes but they recruited a bloke by the name of Brian Lake! meaning Gibson can lay 3rd tall potentially cutting intercepts all day and running off players

[rjay 24,939]

yes but they recruited a bloke by the name of Brian Lake! meaning Gibson can lay 3rd tall potentially cutting intercepts all day and running off players

A bloke who has hardly played a game in defence for the last 2 years and is now 30 going on 31. Champion data reckon they use stats for the last 2 seasons, Lake was a non event in 2011 and played a lot forward in 2012 a bit like Jared. If you got the 2009 - 2010 version then they would be looking better but hardly number 2.

[Pipefitter 2,159]

Hawks favourite again? *yawn*

[Jordie_tackles 354]

A bloke who has hardly played a game in defence for the last 2 years and is now 30 going on 31. Champion data reckon they use stats for the last 2 seasons, Lake was a non event in 2011 and played a lot forward in 2012 a bit like Jared. If you got the 2009 - 2010 version then they would be looking better but hardly number 2.

Maybe on stats but i am saying in general Hawks defence having him in it is far better than last year, cant say he is a bad defender i dare you? will make them harder to score against because they never leak goals even with it being their weakness imo

[beelzebub 23,379]

The reality is all that the stats ( champion ) can do is effectively evaluate was has BEEN.. its next to useless on identifying trends or collaborative changes the likes of which happen with list overhauls etc.

youd be a mug to place any coin on the basis of this Data's projections.