Caroline Wilson's descent into gutter journalism

[binman 42,986]

Is anyone brave enough to mention the elephant in the room?

I'd have to know what you're talking about to mention it.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I'd have to know what you're talking about to mention it.

Stynes.

[Pennant St Dee 13,185]

Just my take on it Demonlanders and no inside knowledge of any kind, but looking at this from an investigators background

Adrian ANDERSON & DEMETRIOU in response to Mcleans comments re-opening the tanking saga

Look this keep rearing it's head with every comment or inference relating to tanking of draft picks

We need to conduct a thorough investigation and put the matter to bed once and for all so we can move on

The investigator

• Reviews the available evidence/allegations and forms an investigation plan with numerous avenues of inquiry
  
• You obtain lists of witness who must be interviewed
  
• You interview all these witnesses and put various questions to them about their role and in what forum they discussed performance and meeting KPI'S
  
• You establish the FD has meetings every so often to ascertain where they are and how they can move forward
  
• You have further avenues of inquiry to interview every person who was at those meetings, thereby identifying further witnesses
  
• You ask questions about each and every meeting and who was present
  

At some stage common knowledge all clubs out of the finals race do it FD'S hold meetings with boards to look to the following season and what they should do for the rest of the season. During that meeting the following matters are discussed

• Dean Bailey look we are on a certain amount of wins and I have two choices we keep playing our best side and win this many more games we move up the ladder but can't make finals
  
• Board put forward look Dean we can't make the finals but are looking toward the future so lets start focussing on 2010
  
• Bailey wants to win he is a coach so he may ask for assurances on his position
  
• The board says Dean if we could make the finals I agree with playing players under duress until we are mathematically out of the hunt, don't worry about you position play the kids for now winning is not the most important thing, we must focus on 2010 and however you perform for the rest of the season will have no bearing on your coaching future
  
• Okay so you assure me that if I play the kids and try players in different positions and we lose all our games my position is not under threat
  
• Board - whilst it wouldn't look good on the bright side we will get the first two picks in the draft, so you do what you have to do
  

If you are the investigator and you interview 4 people and establish this you now have to interview every one who sat in that meeting and establish what was said. I can tell you from experience I have interviewed people for numerous incidents and if you have 10 people who witnessed the crime all 10 will give you a differing account. Some points will be the same but every account will be different.

IMO and it is just that, this is where we are currently at The AFL want to put this to bed once and for all. Some kind of meeting was held and everyone present needs to be interviewed and establish what exactly transpired. So I believe Clothier is following further avenues of inquiry and Caro may have touched base with a source for any update on the investigation and been told they have established a meeting took place because 4 witnesses have told them there was a meeting. Caro has written her story with a bit of poetic licence and we have this story today. It is also my experience these matters take a fair bit of time to investigate review and complete your report so will still be some time

However the AFL is on a knifes edge here because

• Massive implications effectively into match fixing
  
• Bailey if he deliberately went out to lose and anyone else is open to Criminal Charges as it is tantamount to Fraud - "Causing a detriment by Deceit" Detriment is to the punters who bet on games and the deceit is not trying to win
  
• Bailey and any other FD, coaching staff who participated in this is out of the game for good
  

If we are talking match fixing we wont be the only ones hit, the media and other will demand a Commission into the Kruezar Cup and other games in question

In closing everyone potting the club for making no comment, Good decision best form of defence is built around the disclosure of the prosecution case, review their evidence and pull it apart piece by piece.

Sit tight brace yourself for more stories as they will dig and dig, Denham will be like the court jester tomorrow and we will get more kicks. At this stage think Pick 4 and others are safe for 2012

[John Crow Batty 8,864]

Stynes.

So apologists are now going to point the finger to save who's necks?

Edited October 30, 2012 by america de cali

[Dee Fan 3,247]

So apologists are now going to point the finger to save who's necks?

This must be like manna from heaven for you, a real chance to endlessly pot the club. Oh! wait, you do that anyway.

[BIG JIM 508]

Well i will be happy when this is all done and dusted.

MFC made the most of a stupid rule the AFL setup.

I said to a mate about 4 weeks ago the AFL are going to wait till we get all this year's draft pick's in the door before they put this to bed, after all the AFL did have a BIG hand in all this.

They could not take our pick's this year as it would really hurt the club's future.

Mark my words after we get pick 4 in november the MFC will be ready for the hanging.

The real black cloud will be lifted once and for all.

GO DEES 2013

[John Crow Batty 8,864]

This must be like manna from heaven for you, a real chance to endlessly pot the club. Oh! wait, you do that anyway.

What I expect from a serial Schwab/Connolly name droper. Shared a cup of tea with them lately?.

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

If the Vault story is true, this will go one of 3 ways:

1. No case to answer & a wrap over the knuckles - Now unlikely

2. The AFL will punish the Club and maybe a lot of legal sh_t follows - Bad for everybody. Off-field stuff always affects on-field results.

3. The Club & AFL strike a deal to punish the culprits and the guilty walk the plank - real test of fortitude for the looking-after-the-boys-club culture.

Time to focus on winning games folks, If guilty let them walk (or push them)!

[Hannibal 5,814]

Stynes.

Yes, someone has, but why don't you elaborate ?

In my mind the club did exactly what it ought to have done, but was exceedingly stupid in the implementation. Exactly who bungled things so badly as to have secret "vault" meetings with up to 10 people is the question. And I doubt that was Stynes. But if he was actively involved he was stupid too.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Pennant St Dee 13,185]

What I expect from a serial Schwab/Connolly name droper. Shared a cup of tea with them lately?.

It's people like you who lurk behind the scenes who have an agenda with the current administration and undermine things. The same type who are feeding the media with tainted versions of events which fester and affect the stability of the board and the club as a whole.

We are meant to be united at times like this, seriously do us all a favour and F-off I will gladly but two extra memberships in 2012 to make up for your loss. If you are a supporter as opposed to a troll we are better off without you

[Diablo Deemon 220]

I'm just absolutely over the stench of incompetence from this club.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Diablo Deemon

[sue 9,107]

An interesting post Pennant St Dee. I agree about people having different versions of what went on. As I posted earlier, what does the AFL do if some people at the meeting say nothing 'illegal' happened? No one is under oath. Will they demand stat decs?

I'm also not sure about :

>Bailey if he deliberately went out to lose and anyone else is open to Criminal Charges as it is tantamount to Fraud - "Causing a detriment by Deceit" Detriment is to the punters who >bet on games and the deceit is not trying to win

I'm a non-gambler and have little sympathy for punters (that will make me hated here). I say wise punters should take into account that a club may be 'experimenting' etc and should place their bets accordingly. Eg. that half a team Port played v Hawthorn. Even a Blind Freddy punter would have taken that into account before placing a bet.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What I expect from a serial Schwab/Connolly name droper. Shared a cup of tea with them lately?.

Shared a cup of poison with Caro lately?

[Wells 11 5,406]

Time to focus on winning games folks, If guilty let them walk (or push them)!

But guilty of what LH? Thats the real question. Guilty of wanting to grow the dees as a power again in the same manner that several teams had done before us.

The ONLY incentive was to become stronger. This issue is really doing my head in.

[nutbean 8,838]

More than ever now is not the time for the club to say anything. You only make comment when you know all the cards that hAve been dealt. Adelaide is looking pretty silly now as their denials from adelaide heavy's on the Tippett affair were nothing but lies as more and more was revealed. McLardy has llittle idea of what the likes of Bailey, Prendergast and others no longer at the club but at the infamous meeting have said to investigators. If the AFL make specific accusations then tackle them but noisily defending charges not yet laid can bite on the bum when you havent seen the evidence against you.

[Its Time for Another 4,223]

Wonder what sanctions they will impose on a worse case scenario if they establish tanking. You'd hope they have learnt their lesson from the Carlton experience that taking picks away from a bottom team destroys it for years. However, any sanction will probably be complicated by what they will do to Adelaide and feeling that the sanctions need to be seen to be equivalent for the conduct involved.

My opinion, for what it's worth, which probably isn't much, is that taking all that into account they will impose fines rather than take away picks from a struggling team that has been further decimated by five years of devalued picks because all the good players have gone to GWS and GC. If they take away picks and if they start with pick 4 this year, I'll just about give it away. This club has been hammered by the AFL and it's expansion teams enough already. It's only surviving because its supporters came forward and pitched in their own hard earned. The AFL will be spitting in their faces and the survival of a foundation team if they strip picks.

If they do sanction the club they better get to the bottom of the Kreuzer Cup. Plus how many compo picks did Saints and Pies get since 2000. They better be very very thorough if they want to open up this box.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Yes, someone has, but why don't you elaborate ?

Not much to elaborate on but it was interesting to see Caro making references already to the Stynes "legacy". I also find it amazing how easily some around here slag off Schwab, Connolly, Bailey and McLardy but avoid laying any blame at the feet of Jim. This is a right royal mess. And as a bumped thread of mine, that will very quickly drop off the bottom of the page shows, very few held concerns about the impact our obvious tanking would have on culture and nobody predicted the potential for AFL investigations. Most here are worried about losing draft picks. I worry about the impact on public perception, future sponsorship and our ability to lure a star of the competition over the next couple of years.

[Pennant St Dee 13,185]

Not much to elaborate on but it was interesting to see Caro making references already to the Stynes "legacy". I also find it amazing how easily some around here slag off Schwab, Connolly, Bailey and McLardy but avoid laying any blame at the feet of Jim. This is a right royal mess. And as a bumped thread of mine, that will very quickly drop off the bottom of the page shows, very few held concerns about the impact our obvious tanking would have on culture and nobody predicted the potential for AFL investigations. Most here are worried about losing draft picks. I worry about the impact on public perception, future sponsorship and our ability to lure a star of the competition over the next couple of years.

I wouldn't worry to much AFL players have short memories, we just need to get things right on the field and things will move on. Off the field and if there is a cancer ( parodn the expression) festering these issues they need to be dealt with quickly

[Wells 11 5,406]

Wonder what sanctions they will impose on a worse case scenario if they establish tanking. You'd hope they have learnt their lesson from the Carlton experience that taking picks away from a bottom team destroys it for years. However, any sanction will probably be complicated by what they will do to Adelaide and feeling that the sanctions need to be seen to be equivalent for the conduct involved.

My opinion, for what it's worth, which probably isn't much, is that taking all that into account they will impose fines rather than take away picks from a struggling team that has been further decimated by five years of devalued picks because all the good players have gone to GWS and GC. If they take away picks and if they start with pick 4 this year, I'll just about give it away. This club has been hammered by the AFL and it's expansion teams enough already. It's only surviving because its supporters came forward and pitched in their own hard earned. The AFL will be spitting in their faces and the survival of a foundation team if they strip picks.

If they do sanction the club they better get to the bottom of the Kreuzer Cup. Plus how many compo picks did Saints and Pies get since 2000. They better be very very thorough if they want to open up this box.

In a magical world of best outcomes. The AFL could come out and say the rules they had in place were faulty and here are the penalties for future indescretions. Amnesty for ALL the clubs involved in the past. That would be the "just" action...but there's blue cheese on the moon too and pigs flying up to eat it.

[mjt 640]

I wouldn't worry to much AFL players have short memories, we just need to get things right on the field and things will move on. Off the field and if there is a cancer ( parodn the expression) festering these issues they need to be dealt with quickly

they should have been put to bed after 186.

[John Crow Batty 8,864]

If the Vault story is true, this will go one of 3 ways:

1. No case to answer & a wrap over the knuckles - Now unlikely

2. The AFL will punish the Club and maybe a lot of legal sh_t follows - Bad for everybody. Off-field stuff always affects on-field results.

3. The Club & AFL strike a deal to punish the culprits and the guilty walk the plank - real test of fortitude for the looking-after-the-boys-club culture.

Time to focus on winning games folks, If guilty let them walk (or push them)!

Option three sounds ideal. We can be rid forever of these incompetants who have debased, shamed and divided the club. Then Neeld can be free to coach without the millstone around his neck.

Edited October 30, 2012 by america de cali

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

they should have been put to bed after 186.

this is what worries me.

A chance to clear the room was missed.

A strategy was undertaken in probably good faith, but it failed horribly & when that happens massive change is needed.

Maybe it didn't happen because of Jimmy's health. But i do know other clubs were not happy about what was happening.

Jeff Kennett for one, who loved Jimmy was adamant the AFL went light on the MFC whilst he was ill.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Ive never been so [censored] off in all my life. they make the rules, they allow the insentive. They ignore Eddies comments on tv back in the late 90s. they ignore the fact that betting was suspended on the Kruezer cup because the betting agencies suspected tanking. they ignored how the pies got Pendles. They ignored when Wallet/Plough basically admitted to tanking at Richmond. And now suddenly we are the evilest football team in the land and will go down in flames because a few disgruntled halfwits give their opinion of what happened as fact?

What a farse. If any other organisation was run like this heads would roll and im not talking about the club.

My mate reckones we traded most of our draft picks because we knew we'd be banned from this years draft. Not sure how accurate that is.

[manny100 1,565]

The AFL blundered big time after the Kreuser cup. Carlton tanked. Everyone knew even the media. Yet the AFL chose to do nothing - missed th boat. This inaction by the AFL in the face of the obvious could be sen as tacit/percieved approval to individuals, ie do it if you wish - we will not stop it. It was only after McLean blabbered that the AFL decided to act to get rid of priorities - all to late.

Also discussions at a meeting do not mean that these things were carried out on the field. All options must be aired at meetings - whether ok or not.

It would be very hard for the AFL to prove allthis in a court and come out smelling like roses!!

It is also possible that Wilson is talking firmly through her behind!!

[jnrmac 20,090]

Rd 21, 2010 Freo rested 10 players in their clash against Hawthorn at Aurora because they were guaranteed a finals spot.

Why is this not being spoken about??