Lack of facilities - still?

[dee-luded 2,958]

As long as Watts wears GPS I dont much care myself.

Mind you having to wax with the League bozos for use of the wind swept paddock on Swan Street, and presumably all the other facilities, doesnt sound like' elite' to me, no matter how much people repeat it.

Richmond over the road with their own dedicated and private oval seem light years ahead imo.

Bozo's, like the Pies who have been in finals since they've been at Swan st, & the Storm are continuing they're successes.

The AAMI facitilties are seemingly E'lite.

But the supporters social facilities are a disgrace for us, & I believe the Pies are building they're new training oval outside they're Lexus centre, & we know the Tigers are building they're complex with with UpGraded training ground, that will incorporate viewing areas & gym & all the trimmings.

The Bombers have had a great facility for players & Supporters alike,,, as has the Hawks over the last few decades @ Glenferrie. Now at Waverley time will tell.

We have not ever looked after our members/supporters, and IMO is a major reason why our supporters haven't translated into Membership numbers, and now we see our supporter numbers deeminishing.

If we tookover that windswept corner of Swan & Punt, with a Social & Admin complex on Swan St, (opposite the south-western entrance to the Richmond Railway Station, & next door to AAMI Park, we could develop the training Oval as the Pies did 'Gosch's Paddock'...

http://maps.google.c...ed=0CJwBEPwSMA0

Edited September 23, 2012 by dee-luded

[titan_uranus 22,877]

I think something worthwhile to look at in the article is this bit:

"But Hawthorn has not recruited any players in the last five years who are not elite kicks, even if they weren't as hard as they should have been when initially drafted.

The Hawks' philosophy has been that it is far easier to teach a player to win a hard ball than it is to improve a player's disposal. The decisions to recruit Cyril Rioli, Matt Suckling, Grant Birchall, Clinton Young and Ryan Schoenmakers, plus Brent Guerra, Josh Gibson and Shaun Burgoyne from other clubs, all falls into line with good decision-makers and elite kicks of the ball. It should prove a masterstroke that wins them their second premiership in five years."

This is exactly what I think Melbourne has tried to do. We took players like Morton, Watts, Gysberts, Cook etc., operating under the assumption that they brought talent and we would bring/impart upon them strength and fitness. With that strength and fitness, and their talent, we'd get a good list. Hawthorn managed to take skinny kids like Rioli, Young and Suckling and make men out of them, which has given them the best chance to put their talent to use. We haven't been able to make men out of our boys, and so we still play like boys.

Now, I don't mean to do a Range Rover and take one little thing as conclusive evidence settling a debate in favour of the side I sit on. But in this recruiting v development discussion, I do think that there is merit to the idea that our recruiting hasn't been anywhere near as bad as our development, and that if we'd had a group of coaches here who were competent and able to strengthen and lead our draftees, we wouldn't be as bad off now as we are, and our decisions to recruit the players we did were not that flawed, were in most instances based on sound reasoning and made perfect sense at the time. I think Hawthorn has shown that you don't need to draft kids with mongrel or kids who look like brick sh*thouses to win flags. What you need is to take your kids and put them in a professional environment and make men out of them, which, if you're good enough, is entirely possible even if you draft schoolboy twigs.

Obviously it's easier to grow up and mature at a professional club like Hawthorn, compared to us, but I think the strategy is valid.

Edited September 23, 2012 by titan_uranus

[IRW 1,282]

It apparantly didnt stop Hawthorn employinga kicking coach with "flight simulatoer" facilities to record and analyse the kicking technique of its list (Saturdays Age I think) and I'd argue that Watts has shown remarkable resistance to being taught the physical side of the game or how to develop an unquestioning aptitude for 'the contest' involved in elite sport.

Footscray was the last team to be characterised by its kicking skills but it didnt win them a flag even though Rocket saw their strengths and built a plan around it.

A bit of everything, a well rounded team, with a Buddy and Cyril X factor to win the game in any given 10 minute burst is what you need...and you cant plan for that.

[Sir Why You Little 35,069]

It apparantly didnt stop Hawthorn employinga kicking coach with "flight simulatoer" facilities to record and analyse the kicking technique of its list (Saturdays Age I think) and I'd argue that Watts has shown remarkable resistance to being taught the physical side of the game or how to develop an unquestioning aptitude for 'the contest' involved in elite sport.

Footscray was the last team to be characterised by its kicking skills but it didnt win them a flag even though Rocket saw their strengths and built a plan around it.

A bit of everything, a well rounded team, with a Buddy and Cyril X factor to win the game in any given 10 minute burst is what you need...and you cant plan for that.

recruiting & Development is what it comes down to.

[IRW 1,282]

recruiting & Development is what it comes down to.

Yep I figured that was obvious but apparantly every time there is a top team with certain characteristics.....game plan ,culture, coach ,leg speed ,kicking skills ,aggression,big gym program,high alttitude blah blah blah..everyone reckons thats the answer.

What you said while developing the player skills you inherited as a coach into an appropriate game plan would seem to be the answer.

[Sir Why You Little 35,069]

Yep I figured that was obvious but apparantly every time there is a top team with certain characteristics.....game plan ,culture, coach ,leg speed ,kicking skills ,aggression,big gym program,high alttitude blah blah blah..everyone reckons thats the answer.

What you said while developing the player skills you inherited as a coach into an appropriate game plan would seem to be the answer.

you are right. But the top clubs get it right.

Even when the dogs were up, not once did i ever think they would win a flag.

[demoniac 1,243]

Lloyd has a reputation for talking shiite in a desperate attempt to become relevant, he also has history with taking pot shots at Melbourne. Only a foolish person with disregard everything he says but only the naive would blindly accept his word as gospel

Bombers get great* GPS info at their home ground.

*diddelysquat do to roof

[demoniac 1,243]

Bozo's, like the Pies who have been in finals since they've been at Swan st, & the Storm are continuing they're successes.

The AAMI facitilties are seemingly E'lite.

But the supporters social facilities are a disgrace for us, & I believe the Pies are building they're new training oval outside they're Lexus centre, & we know the Tigers are building they're complex with with UpGraded training ground, that will incorporate viewing areas & gym & all the trimmings.

The Bombers have had a great facility for players & Supporters alike,,, as has the Hawks over the last few decades @ Glenferrie. Now at Waverley time will tell.

We have not ever looked after our members/supporters, and IMO is a major reason why our supporters haven't translated into Membership numbers, and now we see our supporter numbers deeminishing.

If we tookover that windswept corner of Swan & Punt, with a Social & Admin complex on Swan St, (opposite the south-western entrance to the Richmond Railway Station, & next door to AAMI Park, we could develop the training Oval as the Pies did 'Gosch's Paddock'...

http://maps.google.c...ed=0CJwBEPwSMA0

don't really see connection with viewing faciliities at training ground and membership numbers. think lack of flags since 1964 might be more of a problem.

[dee-luded 2,958]

don't really see connection with viewing faciliities at training ground and membership numbers. think lack of flags since 1964 might be more of a problem.

Lots of things have contributed to the MFC's failures since 1964.

Norm Smith.

Loss of disciplines & rested on the laurels.

Other clubs started to pay more money.

Other clubs started using the MCG as home ground.

Other clubs grew bigger than us with they're hard won successes & finances.

Lack of professionalism.

Players leaving or declining our invitations.

Nowhere for decades for supporters to mix & mingle after games & training.

Dropping members & attendances.

Loss of finances.

Debt.

[fredblackham 17]

Champions aren't made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them-a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have the skill, and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.” M.Ali

[Footynut 302]

Our technology and training facilities, as well as our fitness and coaching structures ARE on equal footing if not better than all other clubs. I have seen ours and many other clubs facilities and tech setups.

As alluded Melb Storm don't seem to have any issue with getting the best out of the facilities.

Sorry Lloydy but the so called rich clubs like essendon didn't seem to benefit from being so rich on field this year?

As for the assertion or resentment by some the clubs fundraising means we are poor....where do you think any AFL club is without its wealthy members pumping money in year after year. We do it publicly via a dinner. Others such as Carlton and Collingwood and Geelong receive 'gifts' from their high rolling members.

I don't know who or if Lloyd spoke to anyone but I can say with eyes wide open we simply do not have a gap in term of football training facilities.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Footynut

[beelzebub 22,411]

yeah......itd be crazy to have a state of the art complex ( training ) built at Docklands for us... yeah... stupid

but our current facilites arent in any way shabby. Dont go to that as any excuse for on field woefulness.

In the end...good trainers can use everyday equipment to deliver premium results off learnable fodder.

The junction Oval didnt help. But we arent there any more

[Footynut 302]

yeah......itd be crazy to have a state of the art complex ( training ) built at Docklands for us... yeah... stupid

but our current facilites arent in any way shabby. Dont go to that as any excuse for on field woefulness.

In the end...good trainers can use everyday equipment to deliver premium results off learnable fodder.

The junction Oval didnt help. But we arent there any more

Agreed the players need to be disciplined and follow the schedules individually set out by Mission. Only then can they be said to be serious bout holding up their end of the bargain. They have the facilities....use them!

[jumbo returns 6,556]

I completely agree-they dont cost much.

Hope we have got enough Goanna Oil and Elastoplast to get through next year.I'm starting to worry.

Grippo is starting to creep up in price too.....

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

That's a load of sh!t I know for 100% fact every player is expected to wear a GPS every week in game.

Always thought there was a limit as to how many GPS' could be used each week.

Rules may have changed, but in the past there were definitely restrictions on their usage on gameday

[Arrow 1,257]

Always thought there was a limit as to how many GPS' could be used each week.

Rules may have changed, but in the past there were definitely restrictions on their usage on gameday

Back in 07 it was limited to 5 players per game, and a maximum of 10 games during the year for each.

You may be correct in that limitations still exist but it's certainly gone up since than.

[Brian Wilson 331]

Lloyd is changing his name to Mifsud....

"er, conversation didn't happen your honour...".

The source is Brock Mclean (he of the ironic name).

Tanking investigation to follow. Results expected 2032.

[rjay 24,070]

"But Hawthorn has not recruited any players in the last five years who are not elite kicks, even if they weren't as hard as they should have been when initially drafted.

The Hawks' philosophy has been that it is far easier to teach a player to win a hard ball than it is to improve a player's disposal. The decisions to recruit Cyril Rioli, Matt Suckling, Grant Birchall, Clinton Young and Ryan Schoenmakers, plus Brent Guerra, Josh Gibson and Shaun Burgoyne from other clubs, all falls into line with good decision-makers and elite kicks of the ball. It should prove a masterstroke that wins them their second premiership in five years."

I think his is a simplistic view of "The Hawks Philosophy" and would argue that most if not all of these players came to the club as pretty good contested ball winners ith hard at it attitudes. I mean the 3 he mentions from other clubs were all good kicks yes but all hard at it ball winners. This is not something that you just teach, a player must have a strong competitive streak.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

I'd like to know how many people are employed in the front office. It has been mentioned on this forum that there are around 40 people there now. If true I an not sure. If so then serious questions need to be asked.

So please tell me how many should be in the front office. You wouldn't have an idea.

[daisycutter 28,704]

the funny thing (well not too funny) re facilities is that we were a better team when we trained with the possums at Junction Oval

go figger

[Biffen 12,441]

the funny thing (well not too funny) re facilities is that we were a better team when we trained with the possums at Junction Oval

go figger

Might have something to do with the fact that most of our players could kick a footy properly.

Swooper was such a bloody inspirational guy too.

Redheads as coach forever!!

Where are you Lingy?

[old dee 23,081]

the funny thing (well not too funny) re facilities is that we were a better team when we trained with the possums at Junction Oval

go figger

That has occured to me quite often over the last six months DC.

In Fact we have gone hill since the move from Possum poo.

Perhaps that is the missing ingredient

Too soft now that is the problem.

In 2013 we should scattered a bit about can it make us much worse?

[Sir Why You Little 35,069]

Beamer has gone. Things will improve.

[My TD 156]

Any-one who saw Rocky Balboa defeat Ivan Drago in Rocky IV knows that the facilities one has access to train with are irrelevant.

[daisycutter 28,704]

That has occured to me quite often over the last six months DC.

In Fact we have gone hill since the move from Possum poo.

Perhaps that is the missing ingredient

Too soft now that is the problem.

In 2013 we should scattered a bit about can it make us much worse?

do you think it's too late to return to Junction Oval?