Neeld takes on the 'but we won 8½ games last year' argument

[The Reverend 1,736]

Hawks 2008.

No excuses there.

Thats what worries me about Neeld, excuses excuses excuses.

You dont hear that from good coaches.

We should change our name from Melbourne Demons to Melbourne Excuses.

What is your excuse for the nonsense you write?

[The Reverend 1,736]

I like that the coaches office has become a mini Q&A in recent times.

The question about the win loss records was a good one, and i must admit i'm only partially sold by Neelds responce.

When Neeld got the job i warmed to him because he seemed like he was a no excuses, no nonsence type of coach. Latley he's been finding some pretty obscure stats to somewhat justify the sides plight.

I'm sorry, but the games experience excuse doesnt wash for me. How can you justify the losses with a stat like that, when you are in a position which has the ultimate say in selecting a side? If its such a big deal why not pick a more balanced side when it comes to youth and experience, and why let experienced guys like Green retire?

Injuries?

[Redleg 40,926]

Agree with your sentiments cfh I wrote the below last night.

But alas today is looking similar

"Must be me but Demonland is depressing the crap out of me tonight.

Being negative is natural in our current position

But the vitriol from some people leaves me in dismay.

Tomorrow I hope will be better.

Goodnight. "

Assuming you are posting in Oz, I think you need a scotch and a good lie down if you think that 9.45 AM is the night. This season has got to you.

[old dee 23,792]

Assuming you are posting in Oz, I think you need a scotch and a good lie down if you think that 9.45 AM is the night. This season has got to you.

Redleg Read the first line of my post!

However A scotch is always good mo matter what time of day or night

[robbiefrom13 887]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

bit of a smokescreen, too to be saying at that time how Watts could become a Goddard..

ok, you're all sick of this - me too, but it doesn't smell good

[pitmaster 3,561]

perhaps the club should offer a service for some supporters to voluntarily have "nuffie" stamped on their forehead?

Interesting paint facing option.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

Who? Essendon were 8-1 when Melbourne defeated them. Hardly their lowest ebb.

Crickets from RR. Lol.

I don't know what to think of our coaching or their plans anymore but I do know that the fella who wants us to succeed more than any-one ATM is Neeld.

It's not only his present job on the line , it's also his future employment.

[Clark_Kent 315]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

bit of a smokescreen, too to be saying at that time how Watts could become a Goddard..

ok, you're all sick of this - me too, but it doesn't smell good

I am fairly confident Brad Green has retired on his own terms. Neeld would have

given him another season if he asked but I think Green wants to bow out gracefully.

[sue 9,107]

I'm amazed at people who complain about 'excuses'. At the end of this year there will be only 1 club where there are no 'excuses' - the winner of the flag. Every other club will have 'excuses', or 'reasons'.

I'm happy to accept 'reasons' as log as they are reasonable. So far, Neeld's appear reasonable to me. He could easily add in the horror list of distractions and injuries without stretching reasonableness.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

bit of a smokescreen, too to be saying at that time how Watts could become a Goddard..

ok, you're all sick of this - me too, but it doesn't smell good

There is every chance that I am wrong here, but I don't get the impression that Green is being pushed out the door. All season long he has said that he would play out the year to the best of his abilities and see how he felt in terms of playing in 2013. I think his struggles with injury and form this season have highlighted to him that it is time to move on, and his form in recent weeks will help him to leave the game on somewhat of a high note. He and Neeld apparently have had weekly discussions regarding his future at the club, and I think it is likely that they both agreed that if he were to press on that he would probably be back and forth between the VFL and AFL. I'm sure that they laid down all the possibilities that could occur with each scenario (retiring now versus pressing on), and I think that Green has stated that he is the type of player and person that would not want to end his career being a liability to the team or languishing away in the VFL.

This being said, with the departure of Green it is vital that we sign Rivers and obtain (an)other mature player(s) either through trade or free agency. Someone like Chapman, Sewell, even a Boak or Cloke, that could help bring a veteran presence to the team and help lead our young list.

[Ouch! 2,263]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

bit of a smokescreen, too to be saying at that time how Watts could become a Goddard..

ok, you're all sick of this - me too, but it doesn't smell good

There is a difference between telling a player to retire and stopping them from contemplating it.

There have been rumblings for some time in regards to Brad.... ever since Cam retired he started musing about his own football mortality.

I am fairly certain that Green and Neeld were talking, and whilst it could be mutual, I certainly don't see Green indicating that he was pushed and doesn't want to retire.

I'd rather Green leave of his own accord and whilst he is still able to contribute, than the way Brad Johnson left.... which was a shade of his former self.

[Retrospective 104]

so if it's all about the experience of the side why:

• sack bailey.... surely we just had to sit back and wait while the necessary "games into the kids" strategy delivered success
  
• Chop Green
  
• hold onto draft picks to get young talent...
  

Because its more complicated than just experience. I've seen this stuff floated before and while it is part of the explanation for our current situation it's not 'the answer" and to me it does start to sound like excuse time

And the concept that this season is an improvement on last is farcical.... It's not... it is a 'orrible orrible season and a bitter disapointment.....doesnt mean that Bailey was going to get us there either but don't tell me that what is being dished up this season is an improvement

[Range Rover 1,935]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

bit of a smokescreen, too to be saying at that time how Watts could become a Goddard..

ok, you're all sick of this - me too, but it doesn't smell good

Brad Green isn't good enough anymore. Hasn't played well in important games for two years.

This doesn't lessen his stature as a great of the Demons. It just means he's past it.

Get over it. Move on. Just like Brad has.

[The heart beats true 18,128]

Oh as well as permabans for anyone who let's their ego get the better of them by posting a new thread on it!?

For what it's worth the thread was started because I find the AFL statistics fascinating when it comes to experience. I also think that these stats coming from the coach of our footy club are designed to allow people to get a sense of where we are and be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel for the playing group, regardless of the coach.

I'm sorry if it offends you. Maybe we should all return to talking about possible trade scenarios, over analysing Jack Viney or writing songs about the coach?

[Johnny Karate 559]

For what it's worth the thread was started because I find the AFL statistics fascinating when it comes to experience. I also think that these stats coming from the coach of our footy club are designed to allow people to get a sense of where we are and be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel for the playing group, regardless of the coach.

I'm sorry if it offends you. Maybe we should all return to talking about possible trade scenarios, over analysing Jack Viney or writing songs about the coach?

It doesn't offend me as much as my suggestion has clearly offended you. I wasn't potting your thread any more than the litany of others on this topic. So why take the bait?

Let's be honest though, your topic is hardly groundbreaking stuff & may've been better used in another thread debating Neeld. I take it from the thread title that was your intent?

I agree that Demonland does become a repetitive circlejerk at times but why join that cabal & start new threads on well versed topics?

That was a specific critique of your thread not an off the cuff comment regarding the e-corporal punishment of nuffies. Yes I'm being condescending by spelling it out to you. You now have my permission to be offended.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Jimmi C

[old55 23,595]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

He's probably thinking of making space to draft Michael Tuck, Kevin Bartlett and Teddy Whitten to increase the average ...

[old dee 23,792]

He's probably thinking of making space to draft Michael Tuck, Kevin Bartlett and Teddy Whitten to increase the average ...

Glad to see someone still has their sense of humour old55

[Guest José Mourinho]

The Hawthorn 2008 GF team had an average of 107 games experience per player.

Last week we had 72. Against Port we had 64.

And it was widely acknowledged as being a young average for a premiership team, so they had many ahead of them in the following 5 years.

Oh.

What happened?

Not excuses, I hope.

[The heart beats true 18,128]

It doesn't offend me as much as my suggestion has clearly offended you. I wasn't potting your thread any more than the litany of others on this topic. So why take the bait?

Let's be honest though, your topic is hardly groundbreaking stuff & may've been better used in another thread debating Neeld. I take it from the thread title that was your intent?

I agree that Demonland does become a repetitive circlejerk at times but why join that cabal & start new threads on well versed topics?

That was a specific critique of your thread not an off the cuff comment regarding the e-corporal punishment of nuffies. Yes I'm being condescending by spelling it out to you. You now have my permission to be offended.

Jimmi I was making fun of myself there mate. That's what the little winking icon means. It suggests a level of irony and self-deprecation.

I'm pretty excited to see how you contribute around here though. You're clearly setting the bar pretty high and I can only hope to meet your lofty standards.

I'm sure you won't return comment though, because in your own words 'why take the bait?' (again, note the little winking icon)

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,842]

Experience is a critical factor & one thing Neeld can't teach is experience.

Nuffies tend to sugarcoat last year. Sure, we won 8.5 games but in reality we were going backwards. We beat Adelaide & Freo at their lowest ebb, were underwhelming against GC x2, scraped home against a couple of the worst Brisbane & Port sides ever assembled, our 2 good wins were against Richmond (who went past us later) & Essendon in the middle of a form slump. The only decent side we got within a bull's roar of was the round 1 draw with Sydney (who we beat by 74 points in our previous meeting. The rest of the year was marred by thumpings, tactical ineptitude & basically failing every test possible. 186 was the straw that broke the camels back but there were other embarrassing losses too; we lost by 10 goals to a crap Bulldogs team when finals were on the line.

Nuffies also point to Neeld's quotes about being the "hardest team to play against" & wonder why it hasn't been the case in his first year. Like it was some iron clad promise to do it overnight. They fail to recognise just how crap the list is. Much is made of CAC's inability to net us a star from 2000-2006 but out of the rebuild years 07-11 we only really have Trengove, Grimes & Clark as keepers with the latter two having a fair share of injury woes.

Apart from that the list is stacked with tweeners, failed picks & injury prone kids who lack experience.

Blease 18/84 matches since drafted

Gysberts 19/62

Strauss 15/84

Tapscott 25/62

The above are all early draft picks who haven't played nearly enough games. This is a major part of the problem.

Can't agree with the rubbishing of the Adelaide win.

Adelaide had just come off an inspiring come from behind win V St Kilda. It was lauded as one of the gutsiest wins of the season.

Then we beat them by 96 points.

Was Bailey's second best game under his leadership.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Neeld is at a loss to know what to do, his approach is not working with Melbourne as it had at Collingwooid. (In the same way Bailey's approach didn't work at Melbourne as it did with Port) so what do you. You've got to 'spin' your way out the pit the club is in. The inexperience is only as good as long as it applies, but then a different statistical 'spin' will be offered.

This is the challenge he took on. It's harder than one thinks. Judgement day will be in in 18 months and that's no spin.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Jimmi I was making fun of myself there mate. That's what the little winking icon means. It suggests a level of irony and self-deprecation.

Thank God, I thought you were making a pass.

[monoccular 17,431]

why would Neeld talk about how necessary "games played" is, at the same time as he is planning to have Green retire? Do you think that if Neeld had put this argument to Brad, he would have gone ahead and retired for the good of the team?

bit of a smokescreen, too to be saying at that time how Watts could become a Goddard..

ok, you're all sick of this - me too, but it doesn't smell good

and I thought that Brad himself pulled the plug, but you may know some other facts?

[tonatopia 278]

Some more food for thought,

Gold coast beat us last week in hard ball gets and inside 50's.

Gold coast are a bunch of 19 year olds, and neelds objective was to make us contested ball winners.

But I'm sure 'you' have an excuse for this.

Nb. Gold coast nearly outscored us in the last 3 quarters.

So much for a 'promising pergormance'. Quite poor actually, especially considering it was being played at the g.

[robbiefrom13 887]

and I thought that Brad himself pulled the plug, but you may know some other facts?

no I didn't - but it was known that Neeld and Brad had been having weekly talks for some time. I think we'd been told that the possible retirement was on the agenda.