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Sounds like an admission of tanking? Dees got investigated and punished for a similar comment by Brock McLean. Where’s the AFL Integrity Unit?

Rehab: BBB, TMac, Hibbo (the three in runners and no involvement in the main training) and K Turner (doing his own program). Oliver, Petty and Verrall with the main group in full training. Bowey, has the "white hat" on, though is having a full session. Tough conditions (windy), that they are handling well. Plenty of noise as they support and call each other, they remain professional as they perform, then more relaxed during the ends of drills. After warm ups and small drills, they split into two groups, with rotations into each station. First was goal kicking, the other was handball in tight areas until the whistle, then they clear and make a ball entry into the fifty. They used left/right wing, and centre area, as the starting place. Emphasis, on spread and delivery. Several rotations into the goal kicking and midfield set up drills. They finish with a little bit of running, though not too much. Petty, Trac and Sparrow last to leave.

Why? I can enjoy all that and still expect fair dealing. You won't get that in the future if you just acquiesce in accepting bad behaviour in the past.

But the Suns got the job done in the end, that last goal dropped Freo back down to 13th.

Suns have improved a lot this season. I expect them to beat Carlton today and have a good crack at getting into the 8. Would be great to see them make finals (I've lambasted them for a long time, but they are finally showing some ticker). Would be magnificent if they made finals at the expense of Essendon.

agree with the first bit, disagree about the last bit...best 26 man squad players from the last three drafts: jacob van rooyen (2021 draft) judd mcvee (2021 draft) jake bowey (2020 draft) if you extend it out to 'last four drafts' you'd add in rivers and pickett, plus jackson only just left at the end of his third season last year to have 5 of our best 26 drafted in the last four drafts when we're at the pointy end of the competition is a pretty impressive introduction of young talent time i'm all for bringing in the best talent - if we can get reid, let's get him, teach him the inside / outside game with one of the best players playing that role in the entire competition currently one of the leaders at our club

Fair enough, mate - your written work is spot on.

Lachie Whitfield gets 1 week and misses the Demons game.

Time to let the victimhood go Demonland. We’ve won a flag and have a great list. Let’s enjoy that.

Petty will go back into the forwardline when he returns. We are a better side with Petty forward if Tomlinson keeps up his good form. It makes us much more likely to win a flag.

Next week Sydney vs Eagles Suns vs Hawks Freo vs Essendon This will make a lot of people feel dirty but we want an Essendon win to put freo back down to 14th. Blues have a bye and then face the Hawks. If they get up there and Freo also drop their following game against the dogs then we're back looking at a top 4 pick. Freo vs Carlton is a huge 8 point game and Freo's remaining games are against the Pies, Swans, Cats, Lions, Eagles, Port and Hawks. Eagles the only gimme game there.

Don’t knock the game until you have actually been. I attended a few years ago and it is the best live game experience I have ever had. Everything about it was unique and special. Give it a go if you can. You won’t regret it.

So far this weekend the results have suited us putting a game distance to couple of teams that were breathing down our necks. I have seldon enjoyed two rounds of footy more than the last two rounds and we haven't played in one of them.

Thanks again @kev martin - what’s super impressive (apart from your fantasy dedication to providing your Demonland compadres with training reports) is how you notice the differences and tweaks in the training sessions over the weeks. Maybe a weekly spot on the @Demonland podcast - whaddya think?!

The post match review trainings have definitely increased in intensity and the amount of time they are out there has almost doubled. Before this last period, the trainings were nothing more than a stretch, with simple, easy drills. Now they go harder, longer, with more enthusiasm, and have the capacity to try different processes.

Can't wait to see what Taylor and Lamb do with our draft hand, no matter what it is come end of season. And regardless of how we go this year, the injection of highly talented youngsters into our mix next year will bring rejuvenation and a new wave of excitement going into 2024. Especially if we nab an excitement machine or two. Two top 10 picks should be our aim and one more inside 20. That's achievable for sure. Watson, Duursma and a key forward is my wish.

Four pages of ridiculing Mason Cox with absolutely nothing of any real substance to anybody’s posts whatsoever. I’m all for it.

How could we only beat the Suns by a few points if the blues can [censored] them? Jeez the dees are rubbish! How could only bet the blues by a couple of goals when they could beat the Suns so easily? Jeez the dees are rubbish! Yes, we beat the Tigers, but they beat the Saints and the Saints are the opposite to demons. Jeez the dees are rubbish! How could we lose to Freo, coz they got flogged by the Giants and we probably will too. Jeez the dees are rubbish! Have i got it right? Isn't that how it works?

Where the Suns don’t shine, indeed.

Carlton fans carrying on like they've just won the Champions League after baying for blood just a week ago.

Easy on, Kev! I thought you wrote, "They had the mankinis out..." A most troubling image. I assume you meant they had mannequins out. At least, I hope so.

To hell with that. We were fined 500k by the AFL. If they do nothing on this latest fiasco, they should give us that money back

‘One’ player, no. But we have chased specific players and given up capital to get them. Oliver cost us to get up to ND4, and we gave up our future first round pick at the end of 2019 which most people thought could be a top 6 pick to get Kozzie at ND12. So if Lamb and Richardson manoeuvre it’s because there is one player we wish to acquire.

When Max was interviewed by Whateley last week before the Pies game, the topic of the short bye and 3 x 10 day breaks was brought up. Max actually said that the strength and conditioning team saw it as an advantage to the rest of the competition due to the training blocks we could get in to help with the backend of the season.

I don't understand why people get so worked about the size of our bye. There are only so many days between the start and the end of the year - if you get a shorter break between games one week, you are going to get a longer break another week. Every team is still playing 23 games in a 24 week period. The players might prefer to get a shorter break now, and an extra day or two between games closer to finals.

Best performance doesn’t care about what day of the week it is, if the work needs to be done today, it needs to be done today. The players would likely be well educated on that and given they would all love to win another GF i suspect they realize it’s a minor inconvenience as apposed to a big problem. From my elite swim coaching days, i can tell you that around 95% of the athletes at the swimming trials in Melbourne at the moment would train around 48 out of 52 Saturday’s per year, along with 9-11 other sessions throughout the working week and most will be paying $ for the privilege of doing so and not earning a cent from the sport. All in the name of making Australian teams and swimming for the country.

I just spoke to a Pies supporter friend of mine who is good mates with Joel Smith. Kudos to some of our analysts here on Demonland , Binman and others who were spot on. When asked how did you do it and what was your game plan against Collingwood, Joel said that we had to give something away to gain something, and it was letting them have the wings to move the ball, but. Completely blocking the corridor and and have more numbers down back, which meant they couldn’t attack with that run they are used to through the middle .

Deluxe and delightful

Just going to throw a thought out there in relation to the lack of proper bye week for us. From a point of view of increasing aerobic training load which is something Selwyn said in the podcast they would be looking to do, the three games with 10 day breaks would actually be pretty ideal to do this as you have plenty of recovery time post game AND can fit in your extra aerobic work AND can fit in the main session which would contain a fair chunk of intensity. This may actually prove to be a more ideal way to do it than having one long break and regular 6-7 day breaks between the others. A blessing in disguise if you will. We will only know how it went in the last month of footy, but hopefully amazingly well!

Blow up dolls

If the Suns had any supporters they'd be very disappointed right now.

I prefer Suns. I don’t need to hear Huddo yelling ‘Carlton pounding the bums’.

Have no fear. Carolyn Wilson will be right onto it

For all those coming to Alice, don’t expect a great nights sleep on the Saturday night. July 1st is Territory day, the one day a year that firework ms are legal, they sell like hotcakes all day and go off through the night. to call it a bit crazy is an understatement!

I'm going to ignore the permutations and barrack for a Carlton loss. Because it's Carlton and it's the right thing to do.

Remember we were cleared of trying to lose games. We got fined for being the employer of connolley and bailey, because they discussed the benefit of losing games. Wallace just admitted doing the same thing.

What a mundane summary of our season do far. Suns were never in front and we had 5 more scoring shots. Plus the JVR fiasco stopped a good run at the start of the quarter which helped Suns get back in the game. In the Freo game yes they played better footy but we kicked the game away in front of goal. Also I suppose you thought we were lucky on Monday? Well Pies and Power have been best to date but are they going to be able to maintain the rage? Monday proved ( like in 2021) our footy often improves vs the top sides and now that May Lever Salo Fritta and Gawny have hit consistent form like in 2021 we are a much better defensive group and tighter as a unit all over the ground. We are categorically better than a 5 - 10 position and are up to our eyeballs in this flag race.

They described Billy as a right footed Hayden Young. Good, smart ball user and definitely one to keep an eye on

Freo caught us on a bad day. everything went right for them, and we were rubbish. Days like that can happen during the season. They are trending downwards and we're pushing top 2 so I suggest we all move on from that defeat.

My BBQ sauce says that Trac called him a no talent, four eyed, American git. Apologised for calling him American when he found out that he has citizenship here.

My voice isn't what I'd call, harmonious dulcet tones. I also get a bit tangled when speaking and thinking.

Do folks really think we are any chance to trade up for Reid? I don’t, and I also don’t think that should necessarily be the goal. One player has never been our strategy.

We get 3 ten* day breaks in a row. Other clubs get a longer single break than we do but we have longer breaks than them either side of the bye. Surely the Club can design a program that will maximise these 3 long breaks. Who knows, if we are smart it could be an advantage * or nine depending on your outlook

Maynard would have been the perfect heir to Hibbo. Pity that didn't come off. Oh yeah, and Cox is still a nuffy.

The Demons head into the Bye on 9 wins and 4 losses. Please post your questions and comments on the Demons season to date. We'll also be previewing the Demons upcoming match against the Cats so please post any questions or comments you have for that match. The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 19th May @ 8:30pm. Join Binman, George & I as we analyse the Demons Season so far. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat LIVE: https://demonland.com/podcast Call: 03 9016 3666 Skype: Demonland31

Dockers down to 13th A good day at the office for Dees fans

Pick 9 Pick 8 Pick 7 Pick 6 What a day!

Given the bye this weekend, I thought I would give this thread a bump and submit a longer post for discussion. @binman previously theorised the three most significant determinants of premiership success – fitness, quality of the list and relative ages, and luck with injury. He also cited coaching as the next most important determinant. I have adapted Binman’s formulation to be: personnel, fitness (incorporating injuries) and method (incorporating coaching). I neologise this three-pronged conceptual framework as ‘the trident’. I use ‘the trident’ as a lens to evaluate our recent past (i.e. 2018-22), present (i.e. mid-2023) and future (July-September 2023). I hope my thoughts are received as contributing to the passionate discussion about the team we love and I promise not to make a habit of such lengthy posts. Many thanks to the great insights of numerous Demonlanders who have shaped my views. TLDR? Just skip to the last two paragraphs. The past In the first half of September 2018 the Dees charged through Geelong and Hawthorn, announcing our re-emergence from our decennium horribilis. We had a core of high-quality mid-fielders (Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, Viney and Brayshaw), an attacking method and excellent fitness. In third week of September, our charge ended in an embarrassing collision with a blue and yellow wall precipitating a reality check; our list lacked a spread of premiership-quality players and a method that prevailed deep in September. Steven May was an astute addition to the team ahead of the 2019 season. May would partner with Jack Lever - recruited the season before – and control the opposition’s biggest key forward allowing Lever freedom to play interceptor. Unfortunately, May’s early experience mirrored the club’s more generally for 2019. With half the list afflicted with pre-season injuries - precluding players from optimising their fitness before the season – the year was essentially over before it begun. Ed Langdon’s recruitment prior to 2020 continued the trend of recruiting players to perform specific roles. Goodwin’s use of Langdon in 2020 rejuvenated the role of wingers in the modern game. Darren Burgess, high performance manager, was perhaps the most significant recruitment coming into 2020. That the Dees went from an unfit and injury-afflicted 17th in 2019 to a fit and injury-free premiership in 2021 is perhaps attributable to the application of Burgess’ approach to fitness more than any other factor (link to short article with salient Burgess quotes below). https://www.afl.com.au/news/686425/fitness-guru-reveals-secret-to-dees-incredible-injury-free-run In 2021, our core of high-quality to elite players had expanded to include May, Lever, Salem, Langdon, Fritsch, and were now supported by a stronger cast of role players. Key to this was the emergence of young talent in 2021 (e.g. Luke Jackson, Kysaiah Pickett, Tom Sparrow, Harrison Petty and Trent Rivers). Ben Brown was yet another excellent recruitment, playing a vital role in improving the structure of the forward line. With a list of quality players an in great fitness, Goodwin was able to implement a highly demanding game plan involving two-way running. The attacking flare of 2018 was matched with a whole-of-team defensive press that suffocated the opposition. A footballing syzygy had been achieved; the alignment of quality players, excellent fitness and a unique and comprehensive method yielded a convincing premiership. The focus of 2022 seemed to be to repeat 2021 in fitness, personnel and method. While the record books show we won our first ten games, issues were simmering under the surface. Numerous key players (especially defenders) sustained injuries in the pre- and early season. Many continued to play injured, perhaps as part of the Burgess philosophy of building physical resilience. Frequently we read reports of players who did very little training during the week in order to get up for gameday. As Selwyn Griffith noted in his Demonland interview, during the season players typically only get about 70% of the training load needed to maintain base fitness. Across the course of the season, those players carrying injuries likely had even less training loads and this would have accelerated the erosion of their base fitness. This consequence may not have been realised until the second half of the season. Additionally, we now know many players carried injuries into the finals, injuries that directly impacted on their ability to perform. Issues with our method became particularly evident in the back half of 2022: slow and predictable ball movement from D50, long and high kicks to the pocket in F50. Relatedly, personnel deficits were identified: elite decision-makers and ball users in defence and the mid-field and reliable key forwards (ideally with defensive skills). However, these personnel deficits and method issues were not the primary issue. The most proximal cause of our finals failings was lack of fitness. This is most compellingly evidenced by our team’s repeated deterioration in performance in the third and fourth quarters. In all but one game that we lost, we had led by at least twenty points after half-time. We went from the best fourth quarter team in 2021 to one of the worst in 2022. This pattern of performance degradation is unlikely to be explained by method or personnel alone - whereby we would expect a more evenly distributed level of performance across four quarters. More likely, as a consequence of fatigue, the ability to execute the ideal method was impaired, leading to stagnant offence and porous defence. The present Entering 2023, a key focus needed to be optimising fitness. In this regard, Geelong’s change in approach from 2021 to 2022 serves as an obvious template to emulate. Consequently, we have seen more careful management of players (e.g. Hibberd). Time on ground (TOG) for key players has been reduced. Clearly, this reduces match day fatigue and quicker recovery. I wonder if this also allows for increased training loads on other days in the week. That is, by more evenly distributing training loads across the week, a great total may be achieved, minimising the aerobic fitness losses that occur during the season. At this stage of 2023, our fitness appears back to 2021 levels. We are again the best fourth quarter team. We’ve had a relatively low number of injuries and a near full list available for selection. Salem’s return from injury as his 2021 self – rather than the 2022 shadow – is further indication of a fitness team performing well behind the scenes. There’s been a lot of complaint about the lack of a proper bye and Griffith acknowledged this makes inserting periods of increased training loads into the season harder. I’m sceptical about the magnitude of this problem. Indeed, there may be benefits to our alternative fixture of multiple 9-10 day breaks. Either way, this year we have the benefit of learning from last years’ experience to optimise our mid-season training loads. In sum, the present state of our fitness seems favourable and augurs well. Personnel deficits have partially been addressed. Lachie Hunter adds a second specialist winger to the team and a high-quality ball user. Judd McVee has become the lock-down small defender we’ve needed since Neville Jetta retired and is also superbly skilled. However, the key forward positions are still in flux. Tom McDonald and Ben Brown’s bodies are failing them just as the game is moving past them. JVR is adequately filling one of the key forward positions (and has enormous upside). Petty and/or Smith appear most likely to fill the other post/s. McDonald or Brown would need to re-find their best form to gain selection as the combination of JVR/Petty/Smith is seeming more attractive from the perspective of the forward line as a cohesive unit that is competitive in the air and on the ground. Brody Grundy has been an upgrade on Luke Jackson of 2022. However, we are not yet getting full value for the Gawn and Grundy combination. Grundy’s low TOG (often 68-69%) is interesting. Perhaps after a year out of football with consecutive lower limbs injuries his fitness is below his peak and his gameday load is being carefully managed. We will likely see greater output from Gawn and Grundy in 2024 if both can stay injury free and improve their cohesiveness. I see Gawn as Grundy potential premiership determiners in 2023. Thus far, they’ve been good without being great and so are not attracting a lot of opposition attention. However, if both are fit and Goodwin finds creative ways to exploit their strengths at the business end of the season, they will win games and the opposition will have little time to develop negating strategies. In short, our best 22 in 2023 is superior to our best 22 in 2022. Finally, our method. The past two games have shown we are essentially still working on the same method. The foundation of our game is winning contested ball and whole-of-team defensive press. Recent sightings of the 2023 Demon Press of Death (DPoD – credit @rpfc) has been heart-warming. Adaptations to our offensive play were particularly impressive in the pre-season and early rounds; quicker ball movement, looking to use the corridor and attacking the goals. Expect this to re-emerge as the season unfolds. At times (and particularly against Collingwood) we’ve seen better use of tempo football; go fast and take risks when the options are there, go slow and play the percentages when they are not. Striking the right balance must be incredibly hard to execute and take excellent coaching and much practice. Perfecting this element our game is an area to watch closely. The future A significant limitation of this review is the one-sidedness; clearly there are 17 other teams striving to win a premiership and I lack the knowledge to conduct a similar evaluation of their prospects. Others will offer far greater insight into the opposition and I welcome their comments. Approaching this probabilistically, I estimate a 5% chance of the premiership being one by one of the teams currently outside the top four. Of the top four, Lions have the weakest claim, perhaps a 20% probability. I think we have a stronger claim than Pies and Port (I would say 30% probability) but I’m mindful of my personal biases and conclude the top three each have roughly a 25% chance of premiership success. Our ‘premiership trident’ appears sharp and strong. With the benefit of two extra years of conditioning into much the same personnel, our fitness may be better. With the additions of Hunter and Grundy, natural improvement of Rivers and Sparrow and appearance of McVee our personnel are slightly better than 2021. Our method appears sound…when correctly implemented. Combine our best defence with our best offence and we will finally see the Demons hold the premiership cup held aloft at the MCG in September! (Apologies for the long post – though I did make sure it comes in 100 words less than Binman’s Act 2! Looking forward to Binman’s Act 3 which I will no doubt provide a more nuanced prediction of what will come for the remainder of the H&A season)

We get 10 3 day breaks in a row, with R16 being a Sunday. That's plenty of rest time for players

Hibbo giving it his all, ends up in the rehab group after each game