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Great to see these two former Dees inducted into the WA Footy Hall of Fame today https://www.wafootball.com.au/news/22920/wafc-congratulates-four-new-wa-football-hall-of-fame-inductees?fbclid=IwAR2QCDLRRu5NOk6zerXQ-TS2jMH4VtPgDCRzQkpNSLiwip_cnPS4QsoPgac

That's not really what I took any of that as, at all. Seemed more like he was saying they took the good times last year for granted, not this season. He said they trained harder than ever this year - not something you'd do/say if you were taking the season for granted. Think you're trying to create something that isn't there.

I didn’t interpret any of this as taking anything for granted. I love the way Tracc says ‘versed’ when he’s talking about teams we’ve played against. Reminds me he’s just a big kid. He’s a good guy. I also like that he refers to himself as an optimist. That’ll stand him in good stead for life. All that video reminded me is that we’ve got a ripper.

Great fit for the Doggies. Fingers crossed this happens for all involved. 1. Demons get salary cap space and no doubt an extra third round pick. 2. Bulldogs get a KPD that they desperately need. 3. Tomlinson gets a chance to be best 22 in a team who will challenge.

My brain hurts ....

Can we just accept that we were good this year, just not good enough. The standard across the board in the AFL was the best I've seen in decades. As a club, we had a fair bit to do with that as teams copy the way Premiers play. We were also studied by the opposition and tactics were developed to counter our strengths. A drop off in a fanatical desire to win is usually sub concious. You truly believe you are doing everything the same but that 'first' has been achieved. It is not a matter of lacking the want, or a character flaw as such, and it's certainly not because the club did the right thing by members by taking the cup on tour. This year the players knew we can win it, not just have a belief. The fact we didn't will be the strongest motivating factor going forward. I suspect they will give us what we all want again in '23

Ok, this is totally different from CYB saying the accused will be able to sue for slander as that specifically implies that the families are lying but… This idea that the accused aren’t getting natural justice isn’t accurate. The Hawks report was just that, a report. It was to gather the experiences of indigenous players and that was the scope of the report. Which they did. In it, was extremely serious allegations. The report is confidential and hasn’t been publicly released yet. There is now going to be an investigation by the AFL in which the accused will be told of the allegations, be able to give their side of the story and have their time in front of a tribunal to hear our the plurality of evidence from all sides. This is the definition of natural justice. The only ‘contentious’ part in all of this that could be argued, is that the ABC journalist ran a story about this in which he interviewed participants in the report and released the story. This story is what everyone is referring too and nobody would know about this if this story hadn’t broken. So given that. If you were to argue that the ABC journalist should not have run the story, which is the mechanism in this that brought all this to light, you have to realise you are arguing for either: Self censorship by the journalist in the face of 3 families all making extremely serious and detailed allegations about one of the biggest clubs, in one of the biggest sports, in the country. The allegations are DEFINITELY in the public interest.They deserve to be heard. The journalist would be remiss in not publishing the story if the allegations being made, meet the journalistic standards of credibility. And if they are found to not meet those standards, then, he and the abc will get the pants sued off them. It would also be grounds for this journalist to never work in media again as he would be effectively gagging the families for the benefit of the accused. Imagine how much would be covered up if journalists worked in this manner. We would be a waayyyyy worse society if this was the case. Or Censorship by some larger body to disallow the journalist from running the story in the interest of the accused. This is the definition of a cover up. Yes this is a messy situation, but, the alternatives to how this whole situation played out would lead to EXTREMELY BAD outcomes for our society and in the end, the accused will have their opportunity to defend themselves, which goes against the idea that are not receiving natural justice. P.S. I’m not saying you are explicitly arguing for censorship, I’m saying the logical outcomes of people arguing the accused aren’t getting natural justice, would lead to censorship.

Rumour alert: Liam Henry is in melbourne hanging out with Clarry!!!!

How do you propose they had it 'done and dusted by the start of November' when there were still lockdowns up until what, February? The fans all missed out, the fans that had waited 57 years, and you want the celebrations to wrap up before the fans in the heartland even get a chance to celebrate? Ridiculous call. I don't recall the players and coaches touring the state either, that was club reps and the premiership cup as far as I can recall.

IMO Max's ruck work is very predictable and hit and miss. Where he's elite is around the ground. I agree with @Lil_red_fire_engine vis a vis Grundy being the better tap ruckman. So with Grundy we get elite tap work and with Max we get elite around the ground marking. As I've said, it's a dangerous combination.

But doesn't 40 games played over the last 2 seasons indicate he has been best 22?

You could say that every person accused of a crime and named in the media as being arrested and charged is being denied natural justice and their name besmirched because they haven't yet defended themselves in public. But generally we leave that to the trial. The AFL review will effectively be the trial in this case.

If Jayden leaves, Bowes is 3 years younger, slightly taller and a better user of the ball. He also comes with pick 7. We could lengthen his contract and amortise it. That means we could get our next key forward as well, with JVR coming in and Tom and BBB probably on their last legs. This is a golden opportunity.

Grundy is also excellent at containing the opposition if the clearance is not won. His tackle numbers are elite

I’m frankly surprised Carlton aren’t interested in him. He’s a better player than OMac in my opinion. Makes sense the Dogs are looking at him. Their defense is utter rubbish.

We may not need to. He will probably get a 3 year contract from the Bulldogs and his $500 for 2023 is spread over the contract, say at $350-$400 a year.

Love it or hate it, get use to it because it’s happening. I think Jason Taylor and Goodwin has the runs on the board and delivered us a flag. So if they think Grundy is worth the punt and will work, then whose to argue!.

I still don’t see how Tomlinson has any positive trade value. He was that bad this year and even his Casey play looked so limited (output was good but it didn’t look good) that I think it will cost a pick to move him. Just thinking out loud here but does a Tomlinson for Josh Bruce straight swap make sense? We don’t need Tomlinson. Dogs don’t need Bruce. Neither of them recovered well from ACL’s last year. Both might turn it around with a fresh start.

Don't tell a South Frankstonite that

Hunt's courage in 50-50 contests shouldn't be understated either.

I've always liked Tomlinson more than the general vibe on Demonland. But his contract is disproportionate to his potential role in 2023 and beyond. We can't be spending as much money as we are on a player who is depth, even if I rate that depth more than most. Particularly when we have Turner coming along as a key defender, and we've just re-contracted another defender in Smith. There should be a club in the league who could use Tomlinson and if we have to pay a portion of his salary to facilitate the trade, that should be a win-win-win.

Yep hopefully if we take any learnings out of this season it is that we can't rely on defence alone to win games. We played the season with Lever/May/Petty in defence and didn't go close to a flag. We need to capitalise on our forward 50/midfield dominance and moving Petty into attack would be the smartest move.

Just to add to that, I am sure one of the 11 is Salem who we picked over a fit Bowey. Again, we got what we deserved.

Other than just being nasty, what was your point of making that comment? If Joel does not make it, so what, lots don’t. No need for this sort of derision. Joel doesn’t deserve it. None of our players do.

Watched the full game. 2 things I learnt. Dees are very very good. Secondly, the standard has improved dramatically since the last game I watched last season - AFLW will continue to grow at a fast rate IMO. Go Dees!

We could always go for Naughton. 😉

I didn’t get that impression at all. The boys trained really hard last Summer and they all turned up to training fit and ready to go. This year we had an unsettled backline all year (Salem, Hibbo and Petty all missed large chunks of the year) Our CHF went down and did not return Sydney and Jeelong have had luck on their side with injuries this year. We had it in’21 I have never questioned the committment of the players

I’d lean the other way on hibberd he looked extremely exposed for pace at the end of the year that’s only going to happen more in another 12 months. Melksham played a critical role in a number of games late in the year when no one else stood up fwd

Doesn't seem like a trade or draft related topic.

Much rather Joel Amartey if we are trying to raid the swans

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-utility-adam-tomlinson-in-the-mix-for-shock-move-to-third-afl-club-c-8330309 Tomlinson did a medical at the Bulldogs according to Mark Stevens. With salary dumping all the rage at the moment, it will be interesting to see how this plays out if he does move. Do we pay the dogs with a later pick to take his full salary on? Is it that much of a burden that we would give up draft capital? Or do we pay 100-200k of his contract and get a token 3rd or 4th round pick? Or given the dearth of Key Defenders on the market and that he's contracted, do we drive a hard bargain and try and extract a 2nd round pick from the dogs? Our key defender depth will be whittled down to Turner and Joel Smith in the absence of any replacements which has me concerned.

Or Larkey at North if Clarkson can't disentangle himself from the Hawks racism report. Will throw North back into chaos which we should try to take advantage of (i know. I'm a horrible person)

TBF though, there were a lot of posters on here, and fans in general, increasingly questioning this as the year went on. There definitely is a lot of Captain Hindsight as well, but the management piece was brought up often during the year.

Some on here mustn't watch the games Jordon is a momentum killer extraordinaire. Not only does he wait, walk back and then ignore free players he has never played on and has never hand balled to a player running past WE need offensive pressure and he doesn't provide it At the moment he is a poor winger half back with great skills but no attacking footy nous. BTW i agree with D4life Spargo is free a lot and is criminally ignored At least that is something we should be able to fix

Hits outs to advantage 2018-2021. You could argue that Grundy (who is the better tap ruckman of the two in my view) with Oliver, Trac, Viney underneath will be even more effective. You could also argue the combined of both will be significantly more impactful being they should be fresher when in there and at points against secondary rucks moreso than now. Hit outs to advantage are gold from a scores and territory viewpoint. 2018 1st Gawn (400) 2nd Grundy (333) 3rd Goldstein (242) 2019 1st Grundy (294), 2nd Gawn (285) 3rd Witts (260) 2020 1st Grundy (166), 2nd Gawn (149) 3rd Naitanui (145) 2021 1st Natanui (270), 2nd Gawn (255) 4th Grundy (214)

If Freo relent and let Lobb go to WB then Tomlinson might form part of the Jackson trade in that WB give Freo a better pick for Lobb instead of giving us a pick for Tomlinson, which in turn 'improves' Freo's compensation to us for Jackson. We may end up 'giving away' Tomlinson for very little but getting his $500k off the books and enabling the Jackson deal will probably be worth it.

Bowey does not have the same pace at all as Jayden

The Deeprint The Road to Redemption 2023 Good rest for the lads( none of this training 2 weeks after the GF business). Take the necessary time to get over injuries properly, surgery, rehab, reinvigorate the players confidence. Review all fitness related programs undertaken by Selwyn and Co and see if they are in need of a updating i.e new methods of training players skills for specific roles within the team, high intensity block, low intensity block training schedules. Recruit where our weaknesses lie i.e (Forward line, Ruckman). Plans B and C to be implemented and worked on during our pre season. Promote and encourage VFL 2022 performances (Mark Corrigan, Players). Bring in fresh coaching personnel who bring fresh ideas and perspective of the game, a fresh look from a different angle. Tweak and Improve our current gamestyle nothing major required. Hunger, Belief and Ruthless attitude to return for 2023. If we follow the Deeprint we are morals for 2023. - Dream - Believe - Achieve LETS LIVE THE DREAM AGAIN IN 2023! 🇱🇮🏆🍾

I’d be taking Bowes contract and pick 7, instead of taking Grundy. As a back up for Gawn I’d ask for Meek in the deal with Freo. Would also be saving the pick that would be wasted on Grundy. Stupid idea to go after Grundy. It’s the Westbrook type situation that everyone else knows is a terrible fit for us - but apparently we know better. Whoever tells the players to bomb the ball into the forward 50 continuously is probably the one who is big on Grundy. We could end up with Bowes, pick 7 and a second rounder. Or we could end up with a second ruckman we don’t need.

We've seen Hunt in that role before and despite his excellent pace he doesn't read the play as a forward, doesn't change direction and doesn't have the tank. It's a different form of running. You can't just pick names out of a hat to replace what ANB brings no matter how much you dislike his deficiencies.

What surgery? Nobody is suggesting that all 11 injured players be dropped together - but perhaps resting some as their inability to perform at 100% became apparent would have allowed a more even balance over the whole year eg Salem wasn't right from round 1 : had he been 'rested' for a few weeks then maybe he would have been as dominant and reliable as he had been the previous year. Who knows? Still, we won the big one in 2021 and never forget that. (Not being complacent or self-satisfied: just emphasising that almost everything needs to go right to go back to back and that AFL footy is a brutal business).

No one said 11 players should have been dropped at once and replaced. The clear implication is we pushed the boundaries with inured players, perhaps off the luck we had in 2021, but the balance was too far to the other side this year and it cost us. Given the form of Casey, losing 1 game for the entire season, there was ample opportunity to blood some young players who had earned a shot while at the same time making sure those injured players were brought back to better condition. We could have done this bit by bit and planned out the year differently, especially given not all injured or sore players were at their 'worst' at the same time. It's not just on Goody, but also the fitness staff and the entire selection committee. I would say mostly the selection committee given what we know about Goodwin's firmness with the fitness team.

I suspect the coaches believed they were doing the right thing by the players, hence the strident denial by those named. However, the advice, counsel, whatever you call it it, was given in 1. the ultra competitive environment of an afl team with a winning expectation, and 2. from a white man’s perspective. it is a sign of our growing maturity as a country that we are beginning to understand the indigenous experience of our white assumptions and “good intentions”. This independent investigation, with indigenous representation, is a good thing. Hopefully the truth it uncovers helps us in the white community to understand and learn.

It’s not surprising but it’s not like they all got injured the week of our final game. Our insistence to continue to play so many players who were clearly below their best when we had a strong list of players playing high quality footy at Casey was ridiculous.

Its important to note the process. HFC asked the external Consultants to review the experiences of its past and current indigenous players. It was effectively a fact finding mission. It didn't ask them to talk to HFC staff or non-indigenous players. It seems the intention was that once they received the Consultant's report they would act on it and if necessary investigate further. They decided to involve the AFL as they probably weren't equipped to undertake investigations which is fair enough. In the meantime the ABC journalist interviewed some of those players and wrote his story on the experiences the three players and families related to him. That ABC story would have blindsided everyone. We don't know how things would have proceeded without it. Then it all hit the fan.

I disagree. I reckon we'll have cap space for an FA or a big fish, but GNF literally takes what he's heard on Demonland and repackages it as his own inside intel. He's been doing it for years.

As someone married to a person of colour, albeit Indian not First Nation. I have forever seen the sacrifice and hardship that she has faced due to her skin colour, religion and overall appearance. This is a current day problem, and not one “in the past”. People of colour go through daily racism and ignorance due to their appearance, culture and beliefs despite their education and intelligence. My partner is a well respected lawyer and an amazing wife and it pains me to see what she goes through on the daily. I cannot begin to understand what these people have been forced to go through. People saying these are alleged accusations, I ask what possible benefit these First Nation people would have gained from making false accusations. This is a part of Australian society, and something that is not new or different for people of colour to face. As Gerard said on AFL 360, it is the stolen generation repeated. People of colour have and will continue to be used for entertainment purposes only. It is time the world takes a stance, and that people of colour, or in reality, non-westernised people, are truly appreciated for the value they bring to society besides their entertainment capacity. I’m sorry if I’m emotional, this is just a topic that speaks so true to me through second hand experience. I have shed some serious tears today running through this topic and hearing the press releases. DO BETTER AUSTRALIA. With much love, Tom