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As a woman, reading this article made me sick to my stomach. Men should NEVER be allowed to make decisions relating to a woman's body or fertility, and nobody has the right to ever tell someone else how to handle their private family matter.

I'm struggling to process this news If the allegations are true, and reading the ABC article it's hard not assume they are, this is beyond comprehension. Horrors like this sound like something that has come to light from the 1950s or 60s, and that collectively we all say that's horrific, thank god things have changed. But it is alleged to have happened in the last 15 years. I'm shocked. Again, if true, this is on another level all together to the bombers drug scandal. Both scenarios involve a complete breach of trust, but this is something else entirely.

Even if half of that is true they should never use 'The Family Club' moniker again.

The old, "They're using their skin colour to get what they want" argument. Do you seriously think people choose to have these experiences? Come on. These are the sorts of privileged attitudes that foster environments like the one in today's article.

Genuinely appalled this could happen in this day and age. I'm incredibly sad for our first nations people that they have had to endure this disgusting behaviour and the trauma that they have continued to battle even to this day. My heart goes out to them. I was really uncomfortable reading that but it needs to be shared in being better with how we not only deal with racism but just treating people better as a whole.

C'mon faulty, don't be that person. This issue is too serious for culture wars palaver. It just distracts from the issue at hand The tone of this thread has been measured and almost to a poster, people have qualified their views with variations of 'if true'. Leaving aside the polemics, if the allegations are true, what is your view on the situation (as opposed to your view on other's responses)?

Aaron Sandilands played until he was 36. He was still playing good footy at 32, but injuries effected his final years. Dean Cox played until he was 33. Shane Mumford played until he was 35. Last good year 33. Paddy Ryder played until he was 34 and looked like he could go again. Todd Goldstein is playing good football at 34. And is going again. Ben McEvoy played until he was 33. Last good year 32. My point ? Not many ruckman are AA at 24 like Cox and Gawn. Most start playing their best footy from 25 onwards. And plenty can be important contributors well into their 30s. Grundy plays all of next year as a 29 year old. For me that doesn't put him near the back end of his career, it puts him smack bang in the middle for a ruckman. How many rucks reach their peak before the age of 26 ? More-so 28+. Our premiership window should be at least the next 4 years. At the end of this period Grundy will be 32 and should still have some years left. Subject to injury he should play at least 100 games. You may not think Grundy will work, or you may wonder how it will work, but if he's injury free his age for our list demographic is not only fine, it's perfect. The only proviso is his injury status. So dismiss Grundy as a good trade target all you want - no problem - but stop using his age as an issue. From an age perspective, he's in the "window" at the exact time we are.

No. This is far more serious than the Essendon drug saga. And furthermore, it shouldn't be politicised by relating the issue to "cancel culture". If an investigation verifies these allegations then it's absolutely one of the worst scandals in the history of our game. I was fortunate enough to meet the then Pastor Doug Nicholls, one of our first Indigenous footballers when I was at school in the early 60s and he told us of his experiences when he first came to play at Carlton and was treated as sub human. We should accept no excuses for that conduct even if it happened in the late 1920s but today, it borders on criminal. Anyone connected with this has no place in the game.

Having just read the ABC article, I’m having a lot of trouble conceiving how such detailed and unusually harrowing accounts could possibly be concocted. The accounts of the women affected in particular seem so specific and shocking in their severity, that I’m at a loss as to how anybody could make such a thing up. There are obviously many more steps to be taken in this process, but man….. If true, this is the darkest day I’ve ever witnessed, not only for the Hawks, but for the entire sport. The Bombers’ scandal was one thing, but this is far worse. And if true, Clarkson/Fagan are done, and should never show their faces at a footy oval again. I’ve always thought Clarkson was a complete and utter xxxx (and have heard first-hand accounts that back that up), but the soft spot I have for Fagan has evaporated

I'm really struggling with this. That Clarkson and Fagan, men who are husbands and fathers would even contemplate such inhuman behaviours is rephrensible on so many levels: moral, abuse of power, racism. It is right up there with the Ess drug saga. Perhaps even worse in that it was deliberate, selective to one racial group and extended to controlling partners and family decisions that affect them for the rest of their lives. It certainly puts a moral stain on Clarkson's 4 premierships.

To give balanced reporting on many levels, throughout the Country. A lifeline for rural Australia During National Disasters the ABC is onto it 24/7 Would you prefer Sky with Rowan Dean and Rita Panahi?

Do you honestly think anyone would recall such traumatic and triggering events to such fine details for [censored] and giggles? Of course every word spoken is the person's own, and of course thoughts and feelings are unique to every person, but to suggest those being interviewed made up these horrific allegations is pretty ridiculous. I have never met a woman who would lie about having an abortion. And I have never known an Indigenous person to lie about being vilified. If anything, people tend to hide those truths more than reveal them publicly. The fact that we keep suggesting over and over again that maybe these stories aren't true, is just our own way to try and deny what is clearly a systemic issue in our society.

Now we know why Rioli retired and won’t go near the club

Not winning a flag a year after winning a flag has fried some people's brains. We are either the greatest team ever or we need to cut everyone and start over.... there's no inbetween

That was a tough read Pretty vile

As he no longer plays for us I don't give a rats @rse where he end up.

This isn't a 'media report' though, it's a report prepared by an external consultant at the request of the Hawthorn Football Club. And unless you've read the full report and spoken to all involved I'm not sure how you can say it's all "circumstantial" and you can find "many holes in the information". This seems to all be you projecting things tbh.

Same here. I honestly thought we were getting somewhere with racism in Australia but now this. So sad on so many levels. Integrity and ethics are what you do when nobody is watching.

Only you could write such a Paragraph… Unbelievable

This is the comment that you originally took umbrage with. rpfc did not say that the outcome could not be fair. He merely said that having a panel made up entirely of white ex-cops was not the best idea. It's entirely possible that you assumed that he was meaning what you thought he meant but it's also entirely reasonable that he didn't mean it that way. But there is also no doubt that having a panel made up entirely of white ex-cops is not the best idea.

Doug Nicholls played some reserves matches for Carlton in 1927 but did not play a senior game. Some of the trainers there refused to attend to him because he was an Aboriginal. He subsequently joined Northcote in the VFA and was a member of their 1929 premiership team. In 1932, he joined Fitzroy Football Club and in 1935, he was the first Aboriginal player to be selected to play for the Victorian interstate team.

just to be a pedant, the journalist wasn't giving an opinion, merely reporting the accusations made by others in a report provided by a consultant to the hfc. as long as a journo is reporting allegations as allegations and not as fact they are on pretty safe ground legally

Fair response mate - but if the journalist in question (and legal team) haven't done due diligence, his career will be over and he will be sued to within an inch of his life. He's put his (highly decorated) journalistic career on the line here. Those aren't the actions of someone operating on a hunch.

It now makes sense why rioli retired so young. Hill left that club to as did buddy. Gosh I hope we are clean at our club

Essendrug might have lucked in with this one. Poor North if it was raining soup they would be standing there with a fork!

All we need now is someone to provide a quote from Andrew Bolt in justifying the behaviour and we're set.

Wouldn't mind at the club making an offer to Jack Bowes, he has a lot of what we're missing and he's in a great age bracket. I think there's a position for him to play wing with his ball use, composure and clean hands being a strength and he's got good height and is strong above his head so folding back to intercept ala Gus is no issue. These are the moves I wish the club would make. Harmes and Jordon on a wing just does my head in. We just simply need to add some other components to our midfield mix.

Correct. I only care that we get well compensated. We got him a flag, a rising star and a 7 figure contract at 20 years of age. He can get us 2 early draft picks at a minimum.

Nup. That would be a dumb thing to say or to think I’m saying. I’m giving you statistical facts about how systemic racism exists and expresses itself in Australia which are a part of the reasons indigenous Australians to mistrust the police. Not an opinion either, it’s just very basic criminology which finds these disparities out. I can send you links to criminological papers on the issue which explains it all if you like?

A footy club is a microcosm of society, the same analogy used when footballers stray, can be pointed at the management. We often have a management style that is a reflection of the 1950s. When will these behemoths, dinosaur's step aside and let those who adjust to the modern norms of behaviour be the guides. Leaders need to reflect the best of us, and not fight to maintain a status quo that is amiable to the powers that be, ambivalent to the middle and downright obtuse to the lower. Get those types out of the management structure. We need people who change the institutions proactively and not those who have to be dragged to even accept the times are a changing. I don’t think it is about a woke society, or ethic/morality training, but more about having diversity and selecting people with merit and broad life experiences to have a voice, in decision and supportive roles. Very much a time to move on from the Old Boys club style of management. Passing psychological and personality assessments could be the way. Could use affirmative employment methods to get more, females, multicultural participants, and those from varying social status, to create appropriate voices and guidance in our institutions. Out with nepotism, group think, and born to rule, time for the glass ceiling to disappear completely.

If I learned this happened at our club, I honestly don’t think I could continue supporting them. If true, it’s not only the horrific racism and misogyny involved in the acts that deserve punishment, it’s that those involved in these incidents have butchered the reputation of a 120 year-old club and shattered the trust of thousands upon thousands of supporters. Aside from the people directly affected by this, I genuinely feel sorry for Hawthorn supporters who have now been thrown into a maelstrom of immorality through no fault of their own.

This is perhaps the most disturbing story I have ever read with regards to mistreatment of indigenous AFL players, and is, at the very least, equaled only by Essendon injecting unknown substances into their players. The ghosts of the Stolen Generation and decades of intergenerational trauma are hovering over this, and it is incredible to think that how far Australia has to go on these matters. Remember, the separation of individuals from their families 'for their own good' was one of the darkest periods in Australia's history, and I cannot but think about that when reading today's article. Unfortunately, as the AFL and associated parties move down the investigation track, the result is likely to be a transformation of these experiences into legal arguments and technicalities of blame/responsibility, rather than fundamentally addressing the experiences of these indigenous players and their families, and the meaning of this event for wider society. The focus needs to remain on these experiences, not the percentage of accuracy of claims, as what it is what these experiences mean to the victims that are most important, especially given the history of First Nations people in Australia. This is not a sad day for the AFL, as I have read on Twitter. The AFL must be better, and should have ensured these attitudes and behaviours hold no place within the institution a long time ago. This has been a horrific and traumatic time for those victimised, and is a sad day for all First Nations people.

This is very hard to comprehend. You’d have to wonder what this means for the football club in terms of how it recovers. This kind of thing casts doubt over its ongoing survival. What kind of an institution behaves like this? What possible rehabilitation measures can it take to redeem itself or regain confidence that it can be entrusted with the development of young men. I wouldn’t want my children drafted to the Hawks and I’m sure many others wouldn’t either. Needless to say, Clarkson and Fagan are finished. Not sure about the other coaches at the time but if I was the MFC I’d be asking very hard questions of Yze. Goes without saying the allegations need to be proved but the sources are impeccable.

Having worked with the ABC, this has to be water tight... He's a brilliant journalist.

Russell Jackson is one of the finest journalists in the country and broken some of the biggest stories in recent times. No question on his sources and veracity of his story. This is a shameful story and can only hope it leads to a positive inflection point for society at large. The depths that clubs have ‘allegedly’ plumbed to achieve success continue to shock.

The weird part is, doing what they did wouldn’t help performance or lead to a settled young man playing good footy. Having a partner and kids often leads to a matured settled person. so hiding behind wanting to win is crazy. They are just abusing young people

Wow that's horrific. I just cannot fathom the stories that I've read To tell a player and there partner to get an abortion is just horrifc and just so wrong. To change there sims cards in there phones to cut off contact and lose contact with there partners is awful. I wonder how Sonya Hood fells about reading this and how the indigenous players at nth feel.

WTF has Spargo got to do with Trade rumours. Can we start a pointless jabber thread? or is this it?

Speaking on RSN on Wednesday morning, Goodwin stated he is mystified about where the rumours of Pickett's potential departure first began. "We can't understand where this story has come from," Goodwin began. "'Kozzie' left his exit interview a few days ago and he can't speak more highly enough of Melbourne, his love of the footy club, his love for his teammates, and his joy to be in our program. I'm not sure where these rumours have started from, but he's going to be a Melbourne player for a long time."

Thanks Binman for articulating how I felt about this. It is hard to process - happening at the same time as the apology to stolen generations, it's truly gobsmackingly horrible stuff.

I mean, the ABC would have had to cover off a lot of things to get this to the public. The implications on them would be enormous if it’s found to be untrue. I don’t doubt that the accused would try and deny it, because it will ruin them

I am keen for this to be trialled early in the year. Petty showed a lot of potential as a forward in 2019 and he has improved a lot as an AFL footballer since then. While we might be impacting our backline, Smith and Turner have both shown enough to indicate that we could adequately manage, particularly given we have May and Lever already there. I also think Petty plays the easiest position on the ground at the moment. Petty could go back if we decided it wasn't working (or there were better options in the forward line) and he would find it easy to adjust. I just think this is an experiment we should try next year before the last 5 minutes of the season.

Good God supporters post up some delusional [censored] at trade time. Gobsmackingly lopsided wish list.

Agreed. While what is reported are 'allegations' it is not as if someone has run off whinging to the media. The report would have been prepared by credible people and cleared by lawyers at various levels as would the reporting at the ABC. The AFL are using the term 'allegations' of 'historical' events, a term often relating to events of 30+ years ago. These were in the last decade or so. Nothing 'historical' about them. While Hawthorn can say the key people are no longer at the club and things have changed to try and cover itself, which doesn't wash, that script isn't available to the AF given it involves two of its senior coaches.

I was on the Collingwood FC Reddit page last night (reading an article about Grundy) and noticed this exchange between two supporters…. Did anybody catch this on SEN? Seems absolutely ludicrous that we’d even consider giving up JVR for Grundy, but somebody at SEN obviously needed to flap their gums about something. TWO picks AND JVR?? Methinks these two are sharing the same crack pipe, right?

Fagan and Clarkson should be very worried. Hard to see how they can continue if substantiated

This is 100 times worse.

People need to calm down they are allegations, until proven people need to be careful with their wording.

I hope that the MFC has done/ doing better

Respect for Brown, a good honest footballer.