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Geezus, MFCSS is still potent.

This is absolute classic Demonland.

The competition doesn’t appreciate Oliver because he is not a poster boy. But my god he is an elite player and I don’t give a flying f who does and doesn’t rate him. He is a star and he is ours.

The umpire knew it was a free just didn’t have the balls to pay it in front of a hostile crowd, as they said on SEN Today if you are scared to make those decisions then maybe umpiring is not for you

Are you serious? Gus played one of his better matches on Saturday. His defensive positioning was elite. He also got some inside ball as well. I was very happy with his game. 22 touches at 73%, 10 CPs, 3 tackles and stopped multiple Adelaide switches and entries via his positioning. Is he as damaging offensively as 2018, no, but he's being played as the defensive winger. Langdon is the offensive winger. People need to watch the game more closely.

1 loss and you might as well close the shop. Classic demonland.

What about the Keays holding the ball decision? That's the one that cost us the game Maggots

I like this doggies supporter because he is spot on. Unfortunately the Weideman/McDonald did not work at all. First time this year where our forward functioning was poor. Does that come down to not having Ben Brown there drawing two defender which releases Fritsch or McDonald? Could be. The Melksham comment is spot on again. Why the actual [censored] we brought Melksham in will go down as this year's biggest selection blunder. Not only does he add legit nothing to the team but we are taking away more defensive pressure by having both Melksham and Fritsch playing in the same team. No coincidence that our forward pressure was at its best when Sparrow was also rotating through there, but also applying manic tackling pressure.

If this is the bar you need to jump over to say a team won't win a Grand Final soon, then it would be absurdly easy to write one about every team in the league. For example: Bulldogs: Class is mostly in one area. Defence terrible and defence wins premierships. Zayne Cordy has to take the number 2 big forward. Awful in the ruck. Halve the midfield and you beat them. They're flat track bullies. Went to water when they faced pressure against an understrength Richmond. Brisbane: Defence ordinary after Andrews and struggle to defend run ons. Poor in the ruck. Too many small midfielders who have been bullied around in finals the last few years. Rely on too few to do too much, and they're all similar players. Had their chance in the bubble and still didn't threaten. Port: Butters out indefinitely. Lack a big marking option after Dixon. Too many 'meh' smalls. Struggle to score in tight games. Many players lack class. Best players are either old or young, with middle filled with average footsoldiers. 'Stars' aren't good enough to win games like others can. Had their chance int he bubble ... now they're all a year older. Geelong: Old and lack pace. Midfield lacks class. Ruck is terrible and costs them games. Play a high possession game that can get shut down in high pressured finals. Have struggled to win finals during their run at the top. Their old list plays well during the regular season but doesn't have it in them to raise their game again once the pressure goes up in finals. No team is perfect. Nor are we.

You can try and look for "outs" on why the umpire didn't pay the deliberate, but the truth is he just bottled it and failed to pay the clear free kick he observed. Doedee was nowhere near where the Crows player handballed to. He got the ball, looked to the boundary, and handballed straight towards it. I'd be surprised if he even knew Doedee approaching from behind his right shoulder. The only reason Doedee was near the ball when it was because he ran after it as it trickled out. As for the Spargo deflection, I don't believe a slight deflection that is not only unobservable to the naked eye at normal speed but that doesn't change the trajectory or the speed of the ball affects a deliberate decision. And even if it does, there is no way the umpire could have spotted that minor deflection. So even if it was technically correct, which I don't believe it is, it doesn't change the fact that he failed to pay the free kick he observed. The outcome doesn't justify the flawed methodology. Not sure if it has been mentioned elsewhere but on that final high kick forward before the siren went, Oliver was running back with the flight to either get to the aerial contest or be in a front-and-square position to crumb and gets completely blocked off by Laird. I didn't see it at the time and I can understand that umpire missing this off-the-ball free, but it's yet another one that went against us and further shows how the whistle gets swallowed for away teams in the last few minutes of a tight game.

All good coz even Adelaidians bag Adelaide. Case in point: I had to do hotel quarantine in Adelaide last year coz Melbz wasn’t taking in OS flights. On my last day as I left the hotel I told one of the cops guarding the door that I had eight hours to kill before my flight and since I’d never been in Adelaide I asked him if he could suggest what places of interest I should visit etc. He said, “yeah no worries, I can do that. But what are you gonna do for the other seven and a half hours?” ?

If Viney and Salem play we will win on Friday night. It will be tough and hard but I feel better going into this game than last week. 20 point win to the Dees. Viney will take away a good amount of Libba’s influence. This is going to be a cracker.

Rivers

Possibly for the same reason the umpire didn't call holding the ball on Blicavs in the Geelong-Brisbane game. Doedee was nowhere near it. It was blatantly deliberate. There probably wasn't a deflection off Spargo but even if there was, there's no way the umpire saw that live so that can't have been his reason. He likely saw an Adelaide player near the ball and used that as his comfort to not have to pay a free kick against the rampant home crowd with the game on the line.

I’m sure the Dogs weren’t thinking they were premiership material after round 10 of 2016. Let’s just enjoy the ride and see where it takes us.

Dare I say that the club isn’t keeping the supporters in the dark. Instead they aren’t letting every opposition club know what’s wrong with one of our most important players, and therefore how to target him.

For what it’s worth The public acknowledgment of the incorrect call is very important because the officials must get the message that if they make blatant errors they may be called out. Failure to do so means that bowing to fan pressure comes without consequences and accordingly will continue as it has been. It would be a tokenistic step in the right direction

I’m not prepared to throw in the towel yet. Adelaide were s**t hot on Saturday. We played well except for lapses when comfortably in front. We and they never gave up. They got lucky in the end and we were not smart enough to close the game down. What irks me though is that most losing opposition side don’t seem to throw in the towel when playing us. They know we don’t have a killer instinct and always think they have a chance. We needs a step up in ruthlessness and intimidate.

Answer to question in thread title: Correct, the GF is in September.

I feel sorry for Clayton ... could anyone have done more to get the team over the line?

Watch any match as a neutral and it's a head shaking experience to see all the missed frees, or the random ones pulled that weren't called in the exact opposite situation 2 minutes earlier. I don't think they need courage. They need the training & resources to be able to hone their craft and execute it dispassionately. In other words, they need to be professional. There will always be "home crowd affirmation", that's just a thing, but it can be mitigated. The AFL just don't care. The only way they'll care is if it starts costing them money.

Watch the umpires somehow give Tex the 3 votes and 2 to Clarry. He was a completely different level to anyone on Saturday, almost dragged us singlehandedly over the line.

The match showed how irreplacable Salem is.

If anyone needed any more evidence that the MRO system is absolutely broken right now, look no further than this round. Nick Holman being given two weeks for a run-down tackle is the lowest ebb in the history of the MRO. And it happens to come in the same week as Darcy Fogarty throws an elbow into Jake Lever's back, and that gets a fine. Suspending a player for a tackle whilst fining a player for throwing an elbow. Broken. The AFL must fix this shambolic situation immediately.

DeeTox Locky has all the attributes of a back pocket and IMO should mind Weightman on Friday night. He was cruelly discarded about 2/3 of the way into 2020 by Goody. It seemed they any error he made was totally against his selection. Niw that he had be played a really good game ( and regained fitness) he should be given the chance instead of Lord Nev who is sadly not fast enough. If Goody had played Locky all year in 2020 he would have had another few games and be really ready for the AFL now. We need a smaller player with speed as all the mediums and talls flew last week and resulted in a goal out the back. Hibbo May get the call up for Bont minding but has he the full tank? We need to look at our list and not keep going back to Melky and Nev and give younger players a chance that will improve our speed and run! This will mean they are ready for Finals type pressure as injuries and form can dictate selection st any time. Give Locky a go and I was disappointed Chandler ( yes he was not great vs Blues ) but needed at least another match to be fair. We need to pick a running side because if we don't we will be too slow chasing the Dogs!!

Oliver has another perfect 10! And taken the lead!! One of these days he will get the recognition he deserves from the media and the rest of the industry. And, hopefully from umpires when they do their Brownlow voting. The votes for Keays and Seedsman show where the damage was done by the Crows Votes 10 Clayton Oliver (MELB) 7 Ben Keays (ADEL) 7 Paul Seedsman (ADEL) 2 Jake Lever (MELB) 2 Taylor Walker (ADEL) 1 Christian Petracca (MELB) 1 Ed Langdon (MELB) Coaches Split: 5/5 Oliver 4/3 Keys/ Seedsman 2/0 Lever, Walker 1/0 Petracca, Langdon. Leaderboard Surprisingly, Petracca has dropped off the leaderboard. 52 Clayton Oliver MELB 50 Marcus Bontempelli WB 50 Hugh McCluggage BL 44 Samuel Walsh CARL 39 David Mundy FRE 38 Darcy Parish ESS 37 Jarryd Lyons BL 37 Touk Miller GCFC 36 Zach Merrett ESS 36 Ollie Wines PORT 34 Max Gawn MELB 33 Jacob Hopper GWS 33 Jack Macrae WB 33 Christian Salem MELB 32 Tim Kelly WCE 32 Dustin Martin RICH 30 Travis Boak PORT 30 Mitch Duncan GEEL 30 Cameron Guthrie GEEL 30 Taylor Walker ADEL

For all the people conflating our performance and the appalling umpiring decision are missing the point they are two separate issues. Using that logic and we played the best game in history and were dudded then the decision matters. There is only one issue and it not cheating umpires but why are they repeatedly so scared to make a decision in critical moments in front of parochial home crowds. Just saying because we played badly it doesn’t matter just does not make sense. Tell that to Clayton Oliver who busted his gut. The decision matters because the same issue has cost three different sides wins. It smack of poor umpiring leadership where they are so micro managed they are fearful a wrong decision will see them punished. There is clearly a systemic issue here and gutless umpiring is at the heart of it.

If anyone was offended (particular South aussies who follow the dees) with some of my rants after the game re drone striking adelaide etc I am sorry Just venting after a shock loss. I actually like travelling to Adelaide (go regularly to rock shows) and the people there are friendly. Crows were good Sat night (not crows fault umpire froze) we were a bit down on form...................Now for friday night

The umpire thought there was a Crows teammate in the vicinity of the handball. How do you explain Lever’s deliberate then? The inconsistencies drive fans mad. Not sure if I feel better or worse to be honest after the admission.

If we bring the same level of intensity and pressure that got us the win against the tiges and we kick straight then we’re a big chance. Treloar out compensates for Salem and even without Viney i still think we'll win.

I just read the Fox reports and report in the Age. I guess all those commentators are MFC supporters. By live, I meant wihtout slo-mo. I expect many at the ground breathed a huge sigh of relief when the panealty was not applied. In any case, the umpire did not see it in slo-mo. And since a deflection is not relevant to the player's intent unless he intended an entirely different direction and the ball suffered a major deflection, even if the umpire thought it was touched, it shouldn't change the call. Even if it goes out 1 metre from where he intended, it is still deliberate if OOB was his intent. The one I am waiting for is a deliberate within the goal square under pressure intended for a behind which hits the point post on the full but may have shaved Gawn's beard. Enjoy slo-mo-ing that.

Would it be completely ridiculous to go it with neither Weid or Brown? I don't think we were functioning that badly when both of them were out of the side

Weightman will run rings around Nev. Kid is too quick for Nev.

As you note Webber, that an egregious error like the one made in at least three games his season has had direct bearing on the result of a gem at the very elite level of a fully professional sport - Australia's biggest sport by some magnitude. It is important Ii think to differentiate between a basic error, that might be open to interpretation, of the sort that happened 20 times game and an egregious error like the one that cost the MFC a minimum of 2, and potentially 4 premiership points. Those points could be, say the difference between the MFC playing the Lions at the MCG in the qualifying final or playing that game at the Gabba (which would be ironic, as the Lions may miss top four, or a home QF, becuase of egregious error at Kardinia Park). So the implications for such an error are huge. I don't blame the umpires for these sort egregious errors. The blame lies with the AFL Of course the umpires don't cheat. And deliberate home town bias is baloney. But the umpires have to have the ability to make the correct calls under the most extreme pressure, like a manic finish with 50, 000 home fans going ballistic. And it is up to the AFL to ensure they have that ability. And to so the only meaningful option is to have professional umpires. Failure to do so basically is an admission the game will accept x number of such season shaping errors every year. And on sheer probability, one such egregious error will happen in the Grand Final at some point and result in an underserving winner. Is that what the AFL want? Is that what the fans want? History is clear on this question. And the answer is no. On the back of the goals that was awarded to hawkins after the ball hit the post in the 2009 Grand Final, and arguably changed the result of the game (though wasn't in the last minute) the score review system was brought in. Leaving aside that 12 years later it is still a mess, no one really argues we should not continue using the technology to prevent howlers. Because as they said at the time - do we really want a grand final decided by an error from a goal umpire? Why is the scenario in the dees and cat v lions games any different. Blatant errors determined the result. Which actually suggests a short term fix. In the last say 60 or 90 seconds of the game (becuase ieven though all really bad errors might impact a result, we can only be certain they will in the last 60 or 90 seconds of a game - and it would take too long if applied throughout a match,) , where possible, any such gregarious errors should be reversed by the video umpire. We have the system in place already. Realistically it could only happen when there is there is stoppage immediately or soon after the contentious decision - or non decision. (as when the ball is motion it would not be fair to stop the play). So wouldn't happen that often. Bu in the two examples this season there has been a stoppage. The video umpire tells the field umpires to stop play and that a piece of play will be reviewed. They review the play and if they believe an obvious error has been made, reverse, or apply the free. As would have occurred in the dees game. Such an approach is wholly consistent wit the use of technology to review goals to make sure the game is as fair as possible. In an ideal world we would have a panel of full time professional umpiring our game, who receive the under the right training (eg making correct decision under extreme pressure - training that no doubt exists) supported by judicious use of video technology.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/620392 4th best ever individual game since 2010 under the Player Ratings model. Watching him on the TV was amazing. The supporters that attended the game must have been picking up their jaws with that display.

I can't understand how some people constantly want Brayshaw dropped. It beggers belief and shows how little some fans understand the game.

Just to keep this thread going, I've screenshot Taj Season so far stats wise. Looking at this he obviously wins the footy well and likes to tackle. Playing midfield I believe after being moved from half back. I am wondering though if he is trying out the for WA state squad?

For goodness sake please put an apostrophe in ‘won’t’.

THE MFCSS IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE.

He is our best player because his overall performance isnt reliant on those couple of key moments. He does it every week: he beats his man, and wins the ball and uses it well. However those key moments are what will make him a generational player. Weeks where he has 10 score involvements or 3 goals as well as his usual impact are absolute world beating, and put him close to best player in the comp.

Interesting that Lockhart and Baker were in the best. Always wondered if Lockhart gets an extended go at AFL level whether he can make it. Has pace, courage, can mark the ball and is a neat kick.

18.10.2 Free Kicks - Out of Bounds (pg54 of the 2021 Laws of Australian Football) A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who: (b) Kicks, Handballs or forces the football over the Boundary Line and does not demonstrate sufficient intent to keep the football in play; Not only did Nick Murray look towards the boundary line as he handballed it directly out of bounds - he made no reasonable attempt to the keep the football in play according to the Laws of Australian Football. Whether the ball did or did not deflect from Spargo is irrelevant if the player (Murray) had no intent in keeping the ball in the field of play in the first place. An apology from the AFL would be something but it has no value as the four points are still lost. No matter how badly we underperformed we were clearly ‘robbed’ of an opportunity to draw or win the match from that non-decision.

Should I start another boringly trivial thread called 'why we might win a flag this year'?

Defense wins championships, this is a universal fact in all team sports, and we have the best defense in the AFL. yes there are areas to work on, but we're 9-1 we probably only need to win 1-2 more games to lock up finals and 4-5 to lock in top 4. we've got time. we are a massive chance to win the premiership, and we're up against our biggest competition on Friday night on their home deck. I'm expecting a strong response to the Crows loss and our 10th win.

I understand your exercise of trying to find out why he didn't pay it, but I think it's a futile one. Of course we don't know the subjective reasoning of the individual umpire, but I think it's pretty obvious that he froze in the moment and was scared of making a game-deciding decision in front of the home fans. I don't believe there's any other rational conclusion that can be drawn when a free kick so blatant and so clear is not paid. If you were looking for a video to demonstrate deliberate out of bounds 101 this would've been a good example.

One of the best solo efforts in a losing game that I ever witnessed. He won’t be intimidated like some others. .

We have the list to win a GF compared to the other top teams at the moment. the main reason we don’t Win it will be mental toughness. Do we have the hunger and will to do what it takes week after week? Let’s see. I’m backing us in

In: Viney, Salem Out: Jetta, Melksham Bad loss, but a good one to have before we take on the Dogs and Brisbane, give Weid 2 more weeks like BB had and go from there. We just played poorly in Adel, fumbly, ordinary inside 50 and missed opportunities. Reset and have a solid outing this week against the Dogs.

We will get the apology for the "mistake". Problem is, I don't believe it it was a mistake. It was deliberate by the umpire who saw it. Not in a cheating way, but out of fear, in front of a ground full of fanatics, to pay a free that would lose them the game. This is a dangerous precedent and we have seen several this year. Not paying a blatant free to the away side that could give them the game has occurred too often this year to be just a coincidence. If this is not eradicated, we will have a very serious problem for the game. Umpires are supposed to be professional and impartial. This is a failure on both fronts. I repeat, this was not a mistake by the umpire, but rather a choice to not pay what he had seen. Even Nicks in the Crows box winced and swore when the handball happened. Btw, Pickett was pushed fair and square in the back a few seconds earlier, when he went for a mark about 40 out. There were 3 blatant frees not paid to the away side, in the last 2 minutes, deliberate, in the back and holding the ball. All would have changed the result. See the similarity. On another note fairly soft frees and 50"s were paid to the home side, resulting in 4 goals from the umps and loud cheering from the crowd. Popular umpires. Better feeling than being booed. It is simply not good enough in professional sport to allow umpiring to the crowd to continue. On another note, the Crows were the better side on the day and we should never have been in the position where a bad umpire call or two would affect the result. That is on us. Fumbling. Falling over. Long bombs to the forward line. About 2/3 of the side having their worst game of the year, together in the same game. As an example I don't think Hunt had one clean possession in his 7 meaningless possies. It was the disaster happening in front of our eyes, against a low side, with 5 losses in a row, who were as fanatical as the crowd. Meka no mistake they set themselves for this game and rested Tex in preparation. We on the other hand brought not our A or even B game, but our C game. In professional football games that is nearly always a loss. Time to regroup and take on the flag favourites in the next two weeks.