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A lot of us have been too negative about the weekend. We were not the only team to go missing for a large patch of the game. Good start - tick Petracca in the middle - tick Using Tomlinson and Langdon effectively - tick Winning when we probably didn't deserve to (like good teams do) - tick

5 goals (out of 8 in total) and 8 score involvements between them. Don't think so mate.

Hunt who was our leading goal kicker and everywhere in the last minute to help save the game?

How good was our start. Goody identified that starts were going to be so important this season. Trained for it and and the players implemented it. Thats great coaching. Ahead of the curve. And lets not forget our save the game last 2 minutes. Once again trained it and looked so much more prepared and organised than the opposition.

I have to say there is fair dose of irony trading a defender that whilst athletically gifted, strong and fast is not a natural footballer (and who it must be said is now a pretty good one) and is prone to having very costly brain fades. And replacing him down back with an athletically gifted, strong and fast bloke who is not a natural footballer and on the evidence of one game prone to having very costly brain fades.

Agree. And in addition to the stats you noted for nibbler you could argue he won us the game. He was terrific in that contest that resulted in him getting it to Tmac to enable the pass to Fritter. it was cleaver too as he was alter to the fact that the ball had not gone over the boundry (really bad error by the blues as was tmac being on his lonesome). The point Fritter then scored was the last score of the match and the winning margin. Hunt was also important in that last 2 minutes as unlike some of his team mates was gut running to contests.

Not saying he's completely safe, but for a team with noted forward 50 deficiencies, note these stats: ANB - 2 goals. 4 inside 50s. 5 score involvements. 1 tackle inside 50. 1 mark inside 50. 9 disposals. Jones - 0 goals. 2 inside 50s. 0 score involvements. 0 tackles inside 50. 0 marks inside 50. 11 disposals. Melksham - 0 goals. 3 inside 50s. 2 score involvements. 1 tackle inside 50. 0 marks inside 50. 10 disposals. Even if you want to argue about Melksham and Jones playing up the ground more, ANB still had more inside 50s and basically the same amount of disposals. Seems to me that most saying ANB will come out without a doubt might be a little biased.

Yep, i can see Blues Boys and us playing off in the GF.....

Completely agree regarding Harmes. We've moved him out of necessity to fill a role that he is not suited for, thereby robbing us of a quality midfield player and not actually filling a role down back. This is Fritsch to the backline and Brayshaw to the wing 2.0. Fancy having a player come 3rd in the Brownlow playing as an inside mid, and then going "sorry, you might be slow and not a great kick, but go to the wing now and struggle to get a touch".

Collingwood, Hawthorn and Eagles (all highly successful teams/clubs faded badly in the second half. I honestly think across the league it will take the first few rounds for teams to establish some consistency. A positive from our match is the first half provides a clear picture of the way we want to play, so the coaches can show players what our game style is meant to look like, and then use footage from the second half to compare what we did differently btw halves and the impact on how things unfold.

I agree. I like Smith as a forward - or at least half-forward. With Howe and Pedo departing, we lost our only real marking strengths. Especially now Tmac has suddenly started judging the ball flight about as well his brother. The poor guy has played next to no footy in the last 3 years. We have to let him build confidence. It's pretty obvious he has more in his kit bag than Omac athletically, so we've got to give him a chance to learn the game and develop. Footy IQ... Not really our strong suit is it..

Weids drop in form has coincided with a lack of stability in his assigned role. He was drafted young and is still only 22 years old. He was on a clearly upward trajectory and was regularly kicking goals in the VFL when not playing at AFL. His last two months in 2018 at AFL level were very good and showed he has the tools to be a damaging forward. Fast forward to 2020 and he keeps getting thrown around, not being given a stable role up forward that he suits. His development has been poor, and I have no doubt if he leaves the club he will excel at another club. He's just another example of a talented youngster going backwards over time due to poor development. Look at Brayshaw - pick 3 and seven years on he's barely contributing. Petracca has taken forever to "shows signs" he could be a great player. Oliver stagnated years ago and is less damaging now than he was two years ago. And they're the more successful high draft picks. Look at others before them and it's embaressing. Until our club gets better at development, we will not be a competitor. Weid needs to come in for Jackson this week, and needs to play as a tall forward for a block of games, not thrown around the ground in a hybrid ruck role.

Not sarcastic at all. Did we start well? Best quarter we have played for over 12 months. Take out a couple skills errors (eg Nevs kick, trac dropped mark) did we control the last 2 minutes. I never said anything about the middle but you cant wack the coach without giving credit. Could Hardwick stop Carl coming back in round 1 to get within 2 goals from a similar position??

There are a lot more than you and I wondering on that one. We gave the Weid a new contract last year and Recruited Brown from essendon as a KPF. First Game in 3 months comes and we pick a kid who has played nothing above under 18's last August? Why give a new contract to the Weid and why recruit Brown and why play Smith as a backman? Our FD beggars belief.

It honesty baffles me that Jackson was selected ahead of Weid against Carlton. To me Jackson's lack of performance in preseason games had shown that he was some way off being ready for AFL footy. It's not that Weid set the world on fire during the preseason, but he looked more competitive from Jackson, particularly considering Weid was being played somewhat out of position as an undersized ruckman. At least Weid has more of a mature body now than Jackson and the Weid has a reasonable track record of what he can do when fit. Would have been a fair slap in the face for Weid to have Jackon selected ahead of him on the weekend. If it was me, I'd be selecting Weid in 22 against Essendon.

I love how he also made sure Carlton hit the post twice in the last quarter, thereby ensuring we won with a last minute miss by Fritsch. Genius!

For anyone else who may have taken the GF Guarantee, I wrote to the club some time back with regards to the above. They have finally got back to me with the club's decision as to what will happen with these payments: "It appears that those with a Grand Final Guarantee this year will have one credited for 2021. This information will be confirmed with renewals for 2021 when that information is sent out. You still have options around your guarantee this year in terms of refunds etc so if you want to discuss you can call us on 1300 336 667." I will definitely NOT be requesting a refund, but I am happy that they've decided to credit members with the payment for next year.

That Rivers play where he streamed off half back and hit an isolated leading target was equal parts beautiful and confusing. It's not something we have seen in 18 months

This thread is stupid because: 1) Brayshaw was excellent with his pressure and played a good solid game on Saturday. 2) We are stacked with inside midfielders, who are also our best players, so players like Brayshaw, Petracca and Harmes need to be able to play secondary positions.

The players are very young men, and playing for a perennially unsuccessful club - they need a father figure type of coach. Greater wisdom than their own. Norm Smith was tough in an era that had quite different values to what we have today; he was also apparently great at getting the players to bond; but his real greatness has to have been his outstanding football nous. He drew respect as much as fear (or love), and engendered self-belief and trust in the whole. Without an established culture of success, we do need the continuing input of a coach who sees more than the players have ingrained in themselves - and Melbourne appears to have struggled ever since the aura of Roos has faded. Goodwin being loved is not enough - it's not producing the outcome we want to see. What we can expect the players to be bringing, for the coach to build with, is their own skills - which a wise coach would be maximising - not trying to re-shape. Play them in their natural positions, and let them get confidence out of their own natural talent as well as from the coach's input. Validate them, surely - how else are they going to grow in confidence? Change can be disruptive, of course, but maybe change needs to be considered. English Soccer clubs aren't afraid of making leadership changes, and it doesn't seem to do them harm. Even if it is risky, persevering with what isn't working is guaranteed failure. Think twelve months too many of Neild. So I hope people at the club are clear about what KPI's are guiding them in their ongoing evaluation of Goodwin. I hope they have clear ideas about the sorts of principles that make coaches successful. I hope they learned from their experience of Roos. I remember going to a practice match against the Ballarat league in 1964, and listening to Norm Smith give his three-quarter time address, after which he left the ground and drove back to Melbourne - leaving the players to get on with it. No problem - such different times; a successful well-oiled machine... Everything seems so fragile today - brittle, permanently a whisker away from disintegrating; no consolidating patterns in anything. When Melbourne were 7.3 to nothing, I switched it off and said to my wife, "I don't trust it..." You can criticise this supporter for that, same as you can bag out players for what's wrong with them - but someone has to be able to turn the ship around - and it's not my fault, or Jack Watts' fault - it's the guy on the bridge who has to be steering.

I have let the dust settled on what was a rather weird day on Saturday. At times, first half, i was particularly pleased, good pressure, good run and carry, and we hit targets. By the end of teh game i was really disapointed, we stopped attacking, went into our shells, showed no leadership and in the end as most people have said on here, very lucky to win. So my take outs: Bailey Fritsch has a big head.. literally and figuratively. He tried to take the back spot and wrestle, and when he got a mark he thought he was Wayne Carey, almost had an arrogance about him, Tom Mc continues to disappoint.. his lateral movement is gone, and for some reason, he doesnt want to lead. For some reason, and its beggars belief we dont have a specialised forward coach, but out fwds are reluctant to lead. Hunt is the only one and he is good at it because he is quick and has good hands. But they lead back, they want it sat on their head.. and the coach talks about connection.. well Ray Charles would tell you that if the fwds dont lead up at the ball, connection is going to be pretty hard. One example of what a leading fwd can do to a fwd line is when Hunt kicked his 3rd in a row, in teh second qtr.. we had run and carry, hit up leading target, Trac lead really well from full forward, it opened up space and allowed Hunt to run into space with a beautiful weighted kick. Its pretty simple and it really annoys me. Anyway, we would want to play a lot better against teh Bombers on Sunday. The upside is that we showed we can play well and we also had a lot of players down, so there is upside and im happy we won. the chance to be 2-1 after 3 is so important.

If I didn’t know the score and just judged off the comments from both groups, I’d conclude that both teams lost somehow.

The Queens Birthday holiday of 1964 happened on the third Monday of the month. Round 9, 1964 Melbourne vs Collingwood Monday 15 June Venue: MCG Attendance: 86,664 B Crompton Massey Miller HB Williams Tas Johnson Leahy C Dixon H Mann Watson HF Vagg Jacobs Kenneally F Lord Bourke Townsend Foll Wise Barassi Rov Emselle 19/20 McLean Robbie The Queen's Birthday holiday in 1964 was celebrated on 15 June before a crowd of 86,664 people at the MCG in what was to be a prelude of the year’s grand final. The spectacle was affected by windy conditions but it was a tough bruising battle that was controlled by the home team despite the narrow margin at the finish. As was common for big games, skipper Ron Barassi was dominant on the ball and that was in spite of the fact that he was playing under an injury cloud. He was assisted by forwards Bryan Kenneally and Barrie Vagg as the team held a two goal lead at half time. The Magpie surge early in the third term was brushed aside despite some wasteful kicking for goal and the Demon defence held firm when the Pies threatened in the last quarter. Despite a few players carrying minor injuries, coach Norm Smith declined the use of his reserves leaving Peter McLean and David Robbie on the bench for the entire game. Melbourne 3.2.20 5.4.34 8.10.58 10.13.73 Collingwood 2.1.13 3.4.22 5.9.39 8.15.63 Goals Bourke Jacobs Townsend Vagg 2 Emselle Kenneally Best Barassi Vagg H Mann Kenneally Williams Dixon Reserves Collingwood 16.13.109 defeated Melbourne 8.5.53 Goals Carroll Vearing 2 Bartlett Beaton Matthews Zinko Best Davis Leitch Hill Report M Bartlett (striking - 2 week suspension) Under 19s (played Saturday 13 June) Melbourne 8.10.58 defeated North Melbourne 7.9.51 Goals McNab 3 Schultz 2 Marr Stone 1 (one unknown) Best Reinholdt Russell Griffiths

Hunt - leadership - stands up

Interestingly Hayden Young debuted on the weekend who plays a similar role to what Rivers does. Young had 11 disposals 46% disposal efficiency 3 tackles and 92 metres gain. Rivers had 12 Disposals, 87% disposals efficiency, 2 tackles and 286 metres gain. They'll both have good careers, but Rivers impact on the game over the weekend cannot be underestimated.

Yes let’s chop a bloke because he’s not playing Brownlow football. Have some patience. Look at weitering yesterday. 18 months ago another lost draft pick at Carlton. Now developing into an elite backman and could e got votes yesterday.

James Harmes had been filming the end of the game; he seemed to get the team pretty excited on the way back in to the rooms. They appeared to start on the back of his filming to maintain momentum. Not a great look. The skipper did not look particulary thrilled with it at first glance

It’s a 0%er, so it adds up to zero. Usually the blokes wait on the field and chuck footies in to the crowd and stuff while the skip or BOG does a post match interview on the ground, then they all go off together. No crowd to speak of so they all went off without Gawn while he did the interview, and forgot. It was clearly an honest mistake.

Let him play half a dozen games before trying to kill him off. He wasn't that bad yesterday and remember he came 3rd in the brownlow having had to start the year off in the 2nds.

Nothing in it.

Not sure I'd be ridding us of Lever or Tmac just yet. 2020 premature expectation, I'd say.

The players either need to show they are willing to really play for their coach, or the coach needs to go. Really p*ss poor effort for most the game on the weekend, against the worst team in the comp, not even nearly good enough. Buck stops at the coach.

Obvious? Why ANB and not Jones?

I can't fathom how anyone would even contemplate dropping Hunt. He was in our top 5 for the day. Kicked 3 goals, made a classical lead and took the resultant mark like a genuine full forward because of his explosive pace. No one else seems capable of doing this in our forward line aside from Fritsch who can't hit the side of a barn at the moment. And as you mentioned, put in some important 1 per centers including a crucial late game tackle and shepherding that long Petracca goal in the third quarter. We must persist with him as he some fantastic attributes as a modern day forward eg- explosive off the mark and a reliable kick for goal. Meanwhile I reckon Melkham's in trouble and probably would have been discussion after round 1 whether he retained his spot. I'd back him in one more week as he's a gun on his day.

Look, you seem like a reasonably sharp poster, I'm not sure why so many of your posts are these kinds of snarky comments. Why not discuss the actual point? If you have a contrary view based on evidence I've got an open mind about things and would be interested to hear it.

At the moment Tmac cannot play back. He is simply too slow and heavy. People worry about Omac's pace. Well he would beat his brother in a sprint. And it is well worth remembering why he went forward in the first place. He was close to being dropped because down back he was a shockingly unreliable kick (who seemed to want always test that by taking risky options). Worse that Frost. He needs to be dropped. Bring Weed in.

I would think Shiel also needs attention. Come to think of it Essendon have traded really well over the last couple of years with the likes of Stringer, Smith, Shiel and Saad. I wrote them off at the start of the season due to their off season surgeries but the COVID 19 period has worked well in their favour. They will probably play finals.

Fritsch needs to also take responsibility for his performance. Has kicked 1.6 this season. Missed way too many set shots and undid his excellent contested marking on Saturday - particularly the grab he took to boot the "winning" point. We'd all be celebrating his performance if he kicked 4.1 not 1.4. I'm happy for him to keep playing full forward as 5 scoring shots justifies his position deep in the fwd line. Just needs to start converting.

I don't think we can play all 3 of Weideman, Jackson and Tmac, because Fritsch plays as a tall. He is not a ground ball player. It will leave us far too lumbering. As it is, when the ball hits the deck we are stuffed. But there is no rush for me with Jackson, whereas Weideman is at an age now where we need to find out if he can really play and be that CHF we are looking for. If he isn't, we need to reinvent him or cut our losses. But he has never played with enough continuity for us to find out. I refuse to believe that someone who played so well under the pressure of finals, does not have the talent to be a good solid player at the very least. And honestly, how many years does TMac have left with his feet? He can barely move as it is. Imagine in 2 seasons! We invested a lot into Weideman, and yet we won't invest game time into him.

If this is your read on the game then I don't know if you're reading matches well. We fell apart on Saturday when we started getting smashed on the inside. We were dominant in clearances and CPs in the first 1.5 quarters and with our obsession with a high forward half press, we turned that into repeat inside 50s and scores. Then Carlton started winning the clearances and we fell apart. IMO had almost nothing to do with getting smashed on the outside, aside from the poor defensive efforts of our forwards and midfielders in the second half.

I think we are forgetting how good lever was in the rounds leading up to his ACL. May, Lever & Smith will take a few rounds to click I think.. Lever at his best is an absolute jet. I know the game was sloppy but we did manage to keep a team to 53 points, and nearly goaless for an entire half of footy. I would be more concerned about our forward line structure which needs another tall. We need to play weed, tmac and Jackson with tmac being the deepest forward.

Ralphy in the Herald Sun reporting that Simon Goodwin has indicated Kysaiah Pickett will return to the Melbourne side immediately after serving his one match penalty for a COVID-19 protocol breach. He played in Saturday’s scratch match against Carlton and “showed his electric speed in an impressive display”. Also in the article (sorry no link available):- * Medium forwards Mitch Hannan and Aaron vanden-Berg also played, * Sam Weideman kicked five goals, and * Harley Bennell pulled up well after his 14-possession display in the 50 minutes he played.

I'd put Hunt in the leadership group. He always seems to go to another level when the game is in the balance. Watch the last two minutes On the MFC website he is in the backline, on the wing and in the forward line.

Not enough of a sample size for 2020 yet - Before you all stick the boots in, he copped a big hit yesterday from McKay arriving late at a pack, initially I thought he was playing for a free, but I reckon he was out of it after half time.

Brayshaw’s performance is directly linked to the current game plan and team rules. He’s a good footballer being wasted in another flawed campaign.

On the body language issue I watched him closely many times when he would come to the bench in a VFL game. It was during his dark days and I was worried that he simply wasn't enjoying the game. After a while I realised that his almost manic solitude is how he gets the best out of himself. So in short don't worry about the body language.

What a stupid thing to say He just finished 3rd in the brownlow and look destined to become a star of the competition. We had just traded Hogan and trading Brayshaw at the time would have been a real uproar with supporters. Everyone is a hindsight hero at times.

The problem with Lever isn't his ability. It's his role within our defensive unit overall. Like almost every player in the league, he has weaknesses, and they get exploited when: 2-3 of Smith, May, Jetta and Lever jump at the same ball; May and others shank kicks coming outside of the back 50, opening us up on a quick rebound; our mids/forwards don't put the requisite level of pressure on the opposition, meaning they get to pick and choose who they're kicking to. Lever is essential to holding our defensive unit together but when the other cogs break down, he does too. He isn't very good one-on-one but if we're playing well, he doesn't end up one-on-one very often and the ball isn't coming in to our opposition forwards' advantage. He can do better, but there are much more significant issues in our midfield and forward line than there is with Lever.

Lever is a good peel off defender in a side that can get decent forward and midfield pressure. But he’s not big or athletic enough to clunk intercepts over packs like McGovern, Moore or Andrews. Or even Howe or Sicily. I think we persevere with him at CHB. He’ll get stronger at the contest and reads the play well. Smith did some excellent defensive things. He mostly blanketed McKay who isn’t a great player but can be dangerous on a lead. He has great closing speed, a big tank and understands angles. He made 2 big mistakes - the attempted hanger and leaving Betts at a contest we had aerial covered. But Frost kept doing that for 4 years, let’s give Smith 4 games alongside Lever and May and if he’s not totally stupid and has half decent coaching he’ll settle.

Sorry, I forgot... the Land way is to sack everyone 2 mins after the game ends