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So you'd kept up with social media enough to know they were overseas, but not enough to know what they were doing overseas? You've copped it from a few, but FWIW I don't agree at all with your attitude towards players not being back at training early. There are a whole host of other issues that go beyond setting examples or getting the best out of themselves. Whether it's mental health, family, other fitness issues, perception from within the club. A whole host of things you, and the rest of us, have no idea about. There's only a couple of months a year where the players aren't obligated to be within the AFL/MFC bubble. I love that Gawn and Harmes and TMac and others have come back early, but just because it works for them doesn't mean it should work for everyone.

I've been away for a while and thought of posting a 'Deven Robertson' thread for quite some time, better late than never with this post. I genuinely find it astounding that he's not more regularly spoken about as a Top-5 prospect. The two games I saw him play he was an absolute jet. He literally ticks all the boxes: He's a massive accumulator of the ball. He's hard at it, both in and under as well tackling. He's got a good build and great athleticism, e.g. dash out of packs. He's got a great footy brain and knows where to run (he could easily start his career on the wing). And finally, he's a leader and by all reports a quality person that's an absolute professional. The one knock on him that comes up is that sometimes his kicking is 'inconsistent', but how does this differ from Serong or Ash. Additionally, I find it far easier to get a kid in the AFL system with the right attitude to improve their kicking skills (e.g. by 10-20%) as opposed to many of the other fundamentals (e.g. going in hard, sprinting from a pack, and natural running patterns) mentioned above. Keep in mind, this kid won the Larke Medal ahead of both Rowell and Anderson. While his sensational carnival was not a once off. He's been averaging the same stats for two years, ~30 disposals and 6 tackles per game, in the WA Colts. I'm not saying select him with pick #3, all I ask is that Taylor and his team genuinely consider him there. Take that little extra time when comparing him to the other options at that point, because if he doesn't make it to us at #8 we've missed a star in a making.

Wow, way to derail a thread. Give it a rest, or go to the General board

Goodwin’s trip would’ve been meticulously planned with Mahoney like any decent performance development plan is in any serious organisation. This is about Goodwin’s personal growth to make him a better coach, leader, mentor, etc. People who scoff at this and label it a junket are quite frankly, imbeciles.

I'm really staggered by the people throwing aroudn bizarrely uninformed comments like "how will this improve out goal kicking" or "how will this stop us being a basket-case' and so on. Let's see now - the data can now tell us, for each player, exactly how well their fiel kicking is going when you look at it for long kicks, short kicks, kicks under pressure, kicks on the run, kicks from different parts of the ground, you can even cut for how and who from they received the ball. That doesn't just tell you about their ball drop or action, it tells you how they react to the different situations. Is such-and-such reliable when they are playmaking with a little time from half-back but tend to go for blind bombs or dinky low-value options once they are in congestion. Or even if the actual part of the ground changes confidence and behaviour - do they hear footsteps and rush their kicks when in the middle even when they aren't under immediate pressure, but have a little more steadiness with the reassurance that their blind side is covered by the boundaries? So, there's a tiny fragment of the kind of thing that can be isolated by just one stat area. You can even answer questions of blame in some ways - is there a particularly player who isn't spreading enough but calls for it and get short pointless little handball receives and then gets tackles or has to dish it off again for just as pointless a next handball? Or is there a particular player who dishes off the pointless short handball without considering better options? The full package can filter it all out to see which end of the 'equation' is the problem, identify specific weaknesses in specific players when to even the most astute normal observer it just looks like another centre clearance chain breaking down. Who actually improves when the game in tight? Who loses accuracy and effectiveness quickly after certain amounts of fatigue and who can keep going a bit longer without suffering too much? The depth of stats now available, combined with GPS, is now like having a hundred extra pairs of eyes all watching the game for any given aspect of every individual player. And that sheer volume of information is just junk of you don't have someone genuinely skilled to filter it, identify anything interesting and give that feedback to the relevant people. Absolutely yes. It will improve out kciking. It will improve out inside 50s. Because we will It will have consisent information about where things are breaking down and what needs to be improved. And it definitely can improve our gameplan and even game-day felxibility because it gives us much clearer knowledge of who is best for what roles and who can effectively shift around to make new combinations. I'll end the rant there but seriously, people, enough with the "I don't need no MRI, just do the brain surgery."

I am genuinely excited about the chance of benell playing for us. The last time I was this exited about a recruit from another club was clark. But harley is coming for free, so nothing to lose. And so.much to gain.

You already follow the Dees. You should be used to it by now.

Previously cold to occasionally lukewarm, I'm now fully in support of poaching Martin from Carlton. The surprise inclusion of Bennell has left me ravenous for more, a return to my lower socio-economic youth when at Christmas I would tell myself that presents didn't matter - until I unwrapped the very first gift, and then instantly bored of last freebie and caught in the grip of a capitalistic frenzy would be immediately desperate for fresh stimulation. Who gave a [censored] if the parents couldn't afford it?

Any danger of Harley Bennell getting a mention in his thread ?

I rate him. One of the few forwards we have capable of regularly pulling off 'something out of nothing' goals - emblematic of what we lacked this year. Not in our best 10 players, but instantly makes our forward line look more dangerous. Definitely in our best 22 when fit IMO, hoping for a big year from him.

I'd like to see him at half back. He has good speed and can run to break lines, is a decent height and strong enough in the air to be able to zone. He is a nice left foot kick. I'd like to see him playing Hibberd's role but it probably won't happen.

Your example was a case of Watts not following his program... I have no issue with players not coming back early, provided they come back in excellent shape. It shows just as much maturity and leadership by sticking to your program and doing extras, regardless if whether that is at the club or away. Some blokes like to come back early, and that's to be commended. But guys that dont, but are still doing the work, shouldn't be looked down on for taking their time off

Anyone who wished to Walk Like An Egyptian.

I usually do spring carnival and the odd race here and there. Always have some on Brownlow, NFL SB and AFL GF. As I stated about I’d love to do a few more exotic multis for NFL etc May look into getting an account just for the winnings I have from the spring carnival.

I agree - I have no issue with them going to the US to obtain knowledge from other professional sports, bond with each other etc. But I really hope the real learning is derived from looking just across the road at clubs like Richmond and Collingwood, where the head coaches learnt not to squeeze it so damn tight and trust and believe in those around them.

Mitch, having come to the AFL later than many (via VFL) is often seen as more experienced (thus having higher expectations) than should be required of him. As a 3rd year player, coming into his fourth, he’s exactly where you’d want him (despite the injury riddled 2019), committed, proven form and building his ability to consistently play And contribute at top level. His sealer in the final vs Geelong, ability to accelerate into contested situations and skill around goal are all big assets if developed property. Expecting a good 2020 From Mr Hannan.

Having scooped the Demonland Crystal Ball award in the general predictions thread for 2018 (and then being controversially robbed in 2019), I've now stepped up to the high-stakes tables for extra-specificity in forecasts; Mitch Hannan in 2020 will continue a long MFC tradition and claim the AFL Mark of the Year, currently sponsored by Toyota, if not edged out by a fellow teammate or some mild controversy. Take it to the bank. Edit* don't literally take it to the bank.

Dunkoles. One of the oldest existing socks known to man - excavated from an ancient Greek colony in Egypt and clearly designed to be worn with sandals - fittingly bares a colour-scheme not dissimilar the oldest existing footballing club known to man. Embrace the heritage DubDee - socks n' sandals was basically the first ever snow-boot for blue-bloods

The racing season never really stops for me Wadda but I do scale things back to a point where I mainly follow the Group racing only ... and as well as Sandown next week there's a number of Group1, G2 & G3 races at Ascot leading up to the new year culminating in the Perth Cup to be run on the 5th of January. The lesser focus between seasons appeals and it's a lot less overwhelming which also suits. Ballarat Cup is in 2 weeks as well as the 2 new $1Miilion dollar races out of Newcastle & Kembla Grange over the next 2 weekends. And in the New Year the Magic Millions rolls around again. I'll keep posting up a few previews and replays until the Autumn comes around just out of interest. Much as I like a bet I'm an absolute horse racing enthusiast much like many are footy fans 24/7. I watch all the shows, the podcasts & radio coverage - the works. Sports betting is ok but it's not all that conversational. To me racing is King. Australian Group Racing

I doubt anyone is assessing Hannan on 2019, He barely played. But in the two years previous he did go missing for large chunks of games. That's one of his challenges in 2020 - to be involved in games for longer & to contribute even when he's not getting the pill.

Hopefully he has a strong JLT and earns a round 1 gig. Was influential (3 goals) at Optus in our win there in 2018. Is a natural goal kicker and our forward line is screaming out for that type with the losses of Watts, Garlett and Kent over the last 3 years, all who knew where the goals were.

Should have said nothing than, based on that. All you've done is assumed with no idea at all Par for course by so many who just like to see the negative in our players To nice DD, I'm over Deelanders continually potting the club and players

Petracca looks fat.

Ok not relevant to anything but I just wanted to re-live this moment in time

I supplied the coke and roofies.

I will still put in my weekly Monkey Macca. .....may need a reminder though to take the laptop up the coconut tree....

We started up another thread for the sports in general Gorg - Monkey Business

Speaking of which, here are the 2 good betting races that stand out today Ararat - China Bowl 1300m Singapore - Gold Cup 2000m $895k

Great moment it was, too. As good as it gets for an opportunistic goal.

I've got a mate who follows racing closer than I do yet he doesn't bet on the horses. So for some there's a genuine fanatacism where for others the gambling element is the main focus thus they probably need to take a break. For myself, I often need a complete break from the footy. For the 6 months in the off-season I'm really only interested in who we've recruited or if we're losing a decent player or 2. But I'm a percentage punter with regards to the horses and I risk very little in the process. I get a lot of small collects doing exacta's primarily but there's always the chance to win a substantial amount with the right combination - got a few nice collects yesterday as a consequence. So the high's are great and the low's are often inconsequential. I'm having a few bets today but again, feature races only involved (Ararat Cup, China Bowl (Ararat) and 2 Group races up in Singapore) ... Willie Pike & Craig Williams are riding up in Singapore today too - much in demand those 2! And we can expect to see Hugh Bowman & JMac for the 2 upcoming feature days up in Hong Kong (Nov 17, Dec 8 )

Monkey Business: NFL Mon 8.30am Green Bay Packers v Carolina Panthers HT/FT Green Bay/Green Bay $2.00

Yes well said Macca and its been great fun and your insight into the sport has been a welcome bonus. I am going to Indo this week, so will be pretty busy with other things. I will try to get a handle on the Ballarat Cup and see if i hear any whispers. I had a number of good wins over the carnival mainly multis and trifectas, so i am happy with that and mainly played with house money by the time we got to Flemington, with a lot still in the kitty. The picks were always good and we had many results as a team. I will keep an eye on the thread from time to time so post away and will def be back to join the team in the Autumn.

Funny, I don’t feel negative. I don’t even feel negative about Hannan. I just don’t know if he is the real deal or not and since he comes out of contract at the end of the year I think it is safe to say he needs to show something this year to keep his spot. I am not talking about this year as his biggest problem, I’m talking about his total body of work. No doubt he can do some great things in bursts, also no doubt he can run and mark. I have just watched him float in and out of too many games. I can’t tell if it is just needing some time to get used to the pace at AFL or a constant string of injuries, some of which we may not know about, or maybe he is just always going to be a burst player. I’ve never commented on Spargo but since you mention it, I think he too will be watched this year. He showed some good progress in his first year but has shown a woeful lack of both effectiveness and pressure this year and his stats are abysmal. I’m of the camp that you need to give players a chance to showcase a body of work before you can properly tell. Probably the coaches get a lot of that knowledge from watching them train as well, for me I only get a good look on game day so that’s all I can judge by. I’m no footy guru, but even I know that to improve year on year, you have to keep separating the wheat from the chaff. It has to not be personal. I would love to see both Hannan and Spargo really take a step and cement their spots this season, I just note that If they don’t, they should expect that their places in the side will be at risk. Neither of them has shown enough yet to be spared the reaper’s blade due to past greatness.

That's interesting, and shows the media is slowly warming to it. There's absolutely an appetite from fans to know more. A slow process but in time the commentators who suggest a team needs to 'work harder' or 'win more contested ball' will be edged out by people who can actually say something interesting about the game. Then the coaches won't get away with such easy cliches either.

KDunk lookin ripped but still doesn’t excuse socks and sandals!

Mate he's not coming to us.

I ear ya

For the life of me, I cannot see how anyone can link how Goodwin operates in press conferences - which we ALL know - have very little resemblance to how any coach operates day to day - and how players/staff react to him - and then FURTHER to how he has a future in the game... They are mutually exclusive things.

Also rate, what a negative bunch... one poor year. Same deal with spargo, written off after one year. no idea

It’s fawking huge.

Both were fantastic last year. We were terrible as a club, but if we won the flag and those two had the exact same years as they did the comment would be completely different. It's easy to slap the individual players because we terrible, but those two were far from the problem

Maybe next time you have no idea what’s happening behind the curtains, you might consider that before criticising?

Sheesh, I wish I looked that fat!

If you're talking about Salem and Petracca I think you're being extremely harsh. Both boys self funded a high rigorous training camp in the US with exposure to professional NFL clubs and world class gym facilities. They did this on the back of Josh Dunkley and Marcus Bontempelli last year doing the exact same thing and Dunkley especially being on record this year to benefiting him for his break out year. If they are not oblige as you say to be there, but are going the extra mile in terms of training preparation and also training with world class athletes then what's the issue? I swear some people want to find an excuse to sink the boots at any cost. Players can't win these days.

I just don’t know about Hannan, clearly he had injuries most of last year. I’ve not yet seen him play a full game of football even when fully fit. It is like they take him off the ground for 2 - 3 quarters and then pop him on to do some great stuff and then vanish again. He needs to find some consistency or he will be out. He has the skill and I suspect high half forward or wing is where he can have the most impact. Fitness will be a big factor so perhaps Burgess can get him set up for a good season. As others have mentioned, this is probably it for him. If he can’t sort himself out this season he will be lucky to get another contract.

I would not be taking him in the teens or 2nd round Living in WA I've seen plenty of potential young indigenous forwards like him. Room for improvement and could end up the real deal, but not in the Elijah Taylor or Liam Henry class

Listening to Neil Balme on SEN this morning was a salutary lesson on just how the modern day coach needs to change, as well as general management practices of any AFL club. Hence Richmond's recent success, when not long before, they were seen as a basket case, with moves behind the scenes to remove the President and Board in one fell swoop. Maybe that is what Goody and co are searching for during their O/S trip. Hardwick did a similar thing before the 2017 season. I say, give it a crack.

Well I think you're right in terms of who we will select but it says volumes about Goodwin. I didn't bother opening the thread on Goodwin during the season as I suspected it was full of wrist slashing and irrational criticisms of him. But I saw enough references in other threads to confirm my suspicions. But one thing is pretty clear. Goodwin is an outstanding communicator and representative of our Club. Whilst I think his pressers are bland and usually say nothing (a frustration to supporters seeking information but probably a skill in itself) he has been front and centre at attracting players and staff to our club. When interviewed players leaving or joining our Club invariably mention how impressed they are with Goodwin and footy department personnel such as Burgess and Richardson have said similar. He is largely responsible for attracting targetted people to our FD. I know there will be those who question Goodwin after last year but it's pretty clear from what Burgess said (16 of the 22 who played in the PF had post season surgery) that 2019's performance is mainly the result of fitness and injury to players. I think Goodwin is a fantastic coach and we are lucky to have him. Next season will tell us a lot but I'm supremely confident.

Every Premiership Coach since Denis Pagan has been overseas to see other sports, to learn from their leaders, and get insights in attack and defence outside the AFL perspective. Modern AFL defence is based on soccer, basketball and hockey zone defenses which came via Parkin, Roos, Wallace etc... There is always lots to learn if you have the desire to grow and change. Apart from that, the trip might also be a great opportunity for Goodwin and Richo to work out how they will work with each other.

What a waste of time and money. I’ve actually been to the US and they don’t even play AFL there, so this whole trip is completely pointless.