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Could be a real surprise for us Demon fans. I have watched him since he was about 12 or 13 playing for Sale Magpies footy Club U/16's and he has worked so very hard to progress this far. Is a real chance to play a lot of AFL. At 18 he may still grow a tad but at present is just slightly shorter and lighter than Josh. Like his brother and sister Lara (Melb Vixens Netballer), he is a student of the game he plays. Has talent in spades and is respected by all down here in Sale and Yarram where his family home is. A real hard worker too which might be a bonus this year. The whole family are sports achievers of the highest calibre. Good Luck Kyle.

I went along to Willy Oval by the sea today as I live down that way. Just a few notes on the game. Willy are a team full of "pit bulls" as Rawlings called them and they are at you all game. In broad terms they closed down the contest, got the game on their terms, then kicked about 6 goals in a row from the end of the second to the first goal of the last qtr. It was a good test for us and as of the seniors, we came up short. Lever was playing pretty well, his disposal was excellent, he was taking the kick-ins and our back line was on top when he went for a contested ball up on the far wing and looked to twist his ankle. He immediately started hobbling, came off, got his ankle strapped, did a couple of run-throughs, went to half time then came out and sat out the game with his ankle iced. I watched him a lot even when he came off before his injury and at the quarter time break and he is definitely not comfortable yet on his knee. He was very aware of it, stretching and itching it a lot. He is so skinny it will take us all a season to get used to his gangly running action but I am pretty sure he didn't re-injure the knee in any way. He will however be a good 3 to 4 weeks away from seniors footy and probably at least a couple from the Casey games. We also lost Maynard in the second qtr to a dangerous tackle (no free) and he was concussed and out for the day. So we were down two players and all of a sudden we had to shuffle the deck and they got on top. One player I really wanted to see against a strong midfield was Sparrow but he was also out (rested I hope and presume). He was part of a good winning midfield against Essendon a couple of weeks ago where he had a run with role with their best mid (number 4) and did a good job. So with Sparrow out we pushed James Jordan into the middle and he was changing with Lewis off half back and it was working well, both Lewis and Jordan getting lots of the ball and driving us forward, but they tightened up, especially on Lewis and then Maynard went off and they got control of the midfield. Preuss was okay but their ruck was six inches shorter than Preuss so they just wrestled and did all sorts of illegal things to stop his influence and the umps didn't pay one free to Preuss. If they had stopped all the illegal stuff he would have been better but they completely dulled any influence he might have on the game for the period they dominated. He got loose a bit in the last and gave some nice taps to advantage but the game was already gone. JKH was our best player. They tried to tag him but he was too clever and was the classiest player out there. He has developed his defensive game a lot in the last year and laid a lot of tackles as well. He did drift out of the game a bit at times but was pretty good for 4 qtrs and is the most likely for a step up to seniors. He played wing very well and would take Stretch's or Jones's position. If given a good run at it, I'm sure he can become top 22. And why not given we won't play finals this year. Weid was Okay. He cannot take body position well in a pack yet and may never be capable of that role. He also doesn't always run to the right spots and he got hands to, but dropped a lot of marks. But he did take a couple of lovely grabs when given a clear run at the ball. For the most part he was our number one forward today and as such was hassled out of a lot of contests but he isn't ready to come into the seniors and add much more than Smith does. A bit of a negative review I know but for those thinking theres depth down below, think again. In an ideal world we would leave Weid in the seconds for another year, get him to put on another 5-10 kilo of pure muscle, increase his strength and get him to concentrate on getting his percentages at marking contests up closer to 20% rather than the 5% he's operating at now. Hannan was okay, looked fit and well, a little rusty and maybe one more before a call-up but given such a long lay-off a very good return. Bedford had more impact than Chandler today, he played the small forward role quite well and hopefully can develop further this year. Both okay but definately not ready for any senior footy. Lewis and James Jordan. Lewis was good and did well not to get reported as they gave him plenty of stick. He was very good in the first qtr delivering off the half back-line but when we lost Maynard he had to go to the contest more and wasn't as effective. He may still get a recall as he looked fit and well and had a good attitude. James Jordan, I think this was one of the first times they used him on ball and he was good, lots of tackles and little dish outs, he should be proud of his game and he shows plenty of promise. Overall, Willy probably had the best three or four players out there today and are a pretty good side who play their home ground well and played well for each other. Their commitment was what won it and something that once again seems to have gone missing from Melbournes whole footy department.

Sorry Kyle. You probably deserved a bit better that us mate. Not even an hour into your MFC career and some of these so called “supporters” labelling you already. Good luck son.

I was at the game yesterday and had a great look as I work for Williamstown. It has been mentioned on here before, someone quoting Rawlings that Williamstown will always be at you. This is spot on. They are extremely well coached by Andy Collins. In regards to Preuss, he was up against Nick Meese who is the best state league ruckman going around. He is a multiple time VFL team of the year player, a Gerry-Callahan medalist (The Best and fairest at Williamstown), premiership ruckman, life member etc. Preuss' game was very good with all this in consideration. Lewis played very well. He was matched up with Adam Marcon, Williamstown's captain, who is an exceptional player. Lewis did have a few turnovers, but the wind at the ground meant no player was nailing all their kicks. I did catch Lewis helping instruct and teach some of the young boys and really being supportive which i highly rate. Weideman was exceptional in my opinion. He was matched up against Olly Tate, who is undersized, yes, but is a very, very smart footballer. The Williamstown boys supported Tate well ensuring he was never left alone. Weids took an absolute hangar in the first quarter, this was even more impressive as it was after a repeat lead, and he didn't whinge after his first lead (which should have been rewarded) wasn't rewarded. Hannan is a a lot bigger than i expected, i had never seen him up that close. He worked his way into the game quite well. Missed a few kicks but will be better for the run. Lever was excellent in the time he was on the ground. He was a class above, i am bias, but you could ask anyone at the game yesterday and they would not disagree with me.

Some of you guys are incredible. Need: Fast outside runner with silky skills, good overhead and can kick goals. How many players match this description in the whole AFL? A dozen? Most would have been top 10 national draft picks. This is a draft that’s the best of what’s left. Take the best of what is available. Dunkley looks solid, comes from a strong football family and is 19. He isn’t going to be Josh Kelly or Lachie Whitfield or Tim Kelly or Hugh McCluggage or Ollie Florent. But he might turn into a good player like his brother.

He also plays half-forward and kicked 3 goals on the weekend. Stop the whinging ffs.

Yes and with both feet. He’s just not accurate.

I posted this in April 2016. Last weekend we fielded the second youngest and inexperienced side in the comp. Average age 24.3 and 68 games. 17 of our starting 22 had played less than 100 games and more than 1/4 under 10. collingwood fielded a team with an average age of 27 and 120 games. These are the facts and a major reason why we are where we are.

Yes, I'm not worried. This season is a blip on the radar - there's plenty of reasons, not excuses. I have full confidence in Simon Goodwin and we have a tremendous young list. There'll be some necessary shuffling in the assistant coach ranks over the summer and we'll be back with a vengeance in 2020.

We should be picking a young player who can be developed rather than a solitary player who may be able to play this year. Our problem is injuries, so when (if) those players return, it would be unlikely for a "ready made" to get a game....i.e. a wasted pick. As well we have a whole raft of players who will retire or be delisted this year. I could give a list of 7 today who would not affect the present or future performance of the club. We don't need another one who would be added to that list. We need to think about the future, not this season, which is already shot.

I'm one of the first to say we need more pace and outside run/skill and wanted us to use multiple picks taking some gambles, but it's also true that after Oliver, Viney, Harmes and hopefully a rejuvenated Brayshaw our inside ball winners do drop away pretty quickly. Jones is close to the end, Petracca hasn't shown he can step up and be a midfielder, Vanders' foot is stuffed, Maynard's gone backwards. After that it's Sparrow and that's about it. Same thing goes for ANB, Spargo, JKH etc as that half forward who rolls up to the midfield. If he can tackle, get contest to contest and hit the scoreboard then he has a chance in that kind of roll as well. Keen to see him play for Casey.

Because we have literally not one single other key defender available? We’ve got five on the list, two are returning from injury and the other two are also in the side. Petty will be the first one to be dropped anyway.

His father was a toughie ... and played alongside Roos, the two of them controlling the Swans backline like two knights on a chessboard. He'll be just fine and terrific in two years. Development is the issue, particularly at the MFC. We've had talent before ... Anyway, young man, best wishes for a fantastic Demon career and it would be great if the rest of the Club can turn things around so you can share the pride.

Doesn’t seem anything like Maynard to me. Natural footballer and can play full time fwd unlike Maynard

See absolutely no point in this unless you want us to tank each yeah and the highlight being the draft? Max King was pick 4, way earlier than any pick we had. Everyone on here was celebrating that we got May for Hogan when he left, because we were trying to win the comp. Howe wanted to leave to play forward, turns out we had it right that his best position was down back. We let Dunn leave as we needed to evolve and the game plan wasn't really suited to him anymore, if Lever and May were fit then there wouldn't be a position for him anyway. We've copped a horrible run with injuries, that's a fact, not just to our best players but also to our fringe depth. Makes it hard to stay competitive when we've only had 30 to choose from and I suspect some have been playing when they would have been given breaks.

I might be easily impressed, but I like that the last four letters of his surname are the same as the four letters of his first name.

I’ve clearly missed something here... where’s it say he’s ‘slow’. Clayton Oliver is an inside mid- certainly not slow. Welcome Kyle! Was shaping to go in the early rounds of the draft this year as a mature-ager. We basically get a player an and extra second/third round pick in the national draft; good outcome. If he’s anything like his brother, who was also overlooked by Sydney as a father/son, then we’re onto a very good player.

He’s 19 for Gods sake so must have a big upside and by the look of him no backside. Let’s leave the judgements be and give him a go.

In his two AFL matches this year, Preuss has taken a total of 4 marks. Tim Smith: 3 matches for 10 marks. Sam Weideman, even down on form: 6 matches for 22 marks. If you want to consolidate marking capability you pick those guys ahead of Preuss.

Don't expect the media to mention that. They barely even mention our injury crisis but cant shut up about Richmond and Essendon injuries.

I can top that. Saw a guy in one of the bars in the MCC walk out wearing a GWS beanie and a Gold Coast scarf. And we sit here wondering how a Liberal/National party was returned to office...

You know the season is going badly ehen this is the highlight of the week.

Had a better forward line when they were smoking on game day...

Undermanned, playing a polished top four team. got away with a modest defeat when it should have been far worse... Bring Salem, May, Lever, Jetta, Hibbard, Hannan, Melksham and Vandenberg back and we compete with the best again. While this season may be lost, all is not.

This should be renamed the Billy Stretch depreciation thread

What's really starting to [censored] me is this [censored] look everytime...

Welcome Kyle!

I don't get some of the negativity towards the kid. It's who we got. If we'd have lost even more games than we have this year (hard to imagine) (we also need to remember we shouldn't have even been in this predicament this year), we would have gotten someone else. But we didn't. We managed to eek a couple of wins, and Dunks is the guy. Is he a Walsh? Nope. He doesn't need to be. We supposedly already have a couple of our own Walsh's. He's a Dunkley. And that's the name we'll hopefully be screaming out as he directs some smart, direct passes to our boys inside 50, leading to goals and a flag. Or he'll win us the ball on the inside and create opportunities. I don't know, but he deserves a chance. He could be a piece of the puzzle. An ingredient. Not even a useless ingredient like parsley. Like a bay leaf. You don't know exactly what he does all the time, but damn you know you shouldn't do it without him. He could even be the stock! Essential! Personally, I'd rather direct my energy towards some of our boys who aren't having a dip, and taking the jumper for granted. Let's give the kid a chance, he looks alright alright alright and he's got some pedigree! Welcome, Kyle! Have a dip, play smart, bleed for the jumper and we'll love you forever.

Hmm...Welcome to Demonland.... Who is this new poster, Kyle? Whats his profile picture? Can he go toe to toe with the likes of DV8? Would he decipher the rambling rantings of Picket Fence? Could he give Uncle Bitters a metaphoric, linguistic sponge bath? ...so many questions!!!

as well as being young and inexperienced, we are also one of the worst teams at playing football at the moment important to factor that in

Injuries = lack of time on the training track = lack of time training/working together = lack of time to consolidate structures, build connection. Add to this the constant merry-go-round of players in the forward line (injuries + form), plus changes in forward personnel/structure (e.g. Hunt). Which then feeds through further up the ground: a not-quite-functioning forward line leads to indecision and hesitation and exacerbates skill shortcomings. (confidence). One great example yesterday was that second Baker goal: Petracca did well to get the ball in the clear and then had Baker open 20m or so in front of him - but couldn't hit him on the chest, the ball landed a few metres short and Baker had to go and get it. Had Petracca *known* who was likely to be where when he turned to kick, it would have been a different story, i.e., if he'd only had to focus on execution rather than decision + execution. The difference between what was going on up the other end on Sunday couldn't be more stark, especially the complicity between Cameron and Himmelberg. Himmelberg has only been playing for 3 season, but ALL his games have been played alongside Cameron - they know exactly what the other is going to do (as do players further up the ground). That ball from Cameron into Himmelberg who was running towards goal, but where Cameron placed it behind him knowing he would turn and run back onto it ... a thing of beauty and illustrative of all that we're not doing at the moment. Injuries. Consequences.

I've read everything this thread has to offer and have been looking for the take aways that are constructive... few and far between! I find slash and burn sentiments unhelpful easy to discard. It is clear that we are severely under-manned. However we have still been creating a competitive amount of scoring opportunities, until yesterday. Yes, one or two selection decisions were perplexing. It was only a week ago that our team produced a fantastic effort against the odds in Perth. Don't be blind to the efforts of individuals when the scoreboard is showing a dismal result. Jack Viney threw everything at forcing the ball in our direction in the second half. This may not have been represented in the statistics, but should have been apparent to any observer at the ground. Josh Wagner was one of our best throughout the first half but is always branded as not up to AFL standard here. Blind prejudice in my opinion. He lacks a little polish but is as brave as they come. He is a handy back-up when the 'stars' are out of the team. Credit where credit is due peeps! On reflection, we could/should have selected Lewis to replace Salem. We could/should have selected Preuss instead of (name your player). We could have taken a risk on Hannon... But really, not much more than this available. I think we should be taking a closer look at how things transpired in the final quarter. I put it down to play on at all costs... which meant we were getting the ball into our forward zone before the Giants could set up their defensive structures. Talking about zones... what about Ray calling a head high free from 70 metres away... The replay exposed that decision as extremely speculative. Now, when RAY was adjudicating in his own zone, he blatantly refuses to pay Ollie a free for being smacked in the gob whilst standing 5 metres away. Incorrect disposal doesn't exist for GWS, at least to umpire 14, who then pays a mark to a GWS player which clearly skidded off the MCG turf into his arms.

And in the end, instead of completely capitulation like in years gone by, we hung in and had our best quarter in weeks and lost by only 4 goals. If we are realistic, on paper the teams suggested an 80 point win to the Giants. My God Corey Wagner was on Kelly at times, Lockhart on Whitfield etc. Get real people. The real disappointment is the lack of skill across the list. What summed up the whole game for me was the Lockhart pass late in the game to Viney who had a 193 cm player next to him and then the kick went high up in the air. Seriously?

For god's sake, he's a mediocre, one-trick player - even at Casey he's mediocre. The bandwagoning on Demonland has to be seen to be believed.

I must have been legit the only person who thought Stretch actually played an ok game?

FMD od !!! If you're giving JKH a wrap, I reckon it's time to abandon ship!

I really don’t see the point in getting carried away when we’re running half a VFL side out there.. The doomsdaying seems a bit blinkered!

If they’re creating that many issues and having their details taken, kick them out. It’s not that hard.

In the words of Bob Dylan, "I don't believe you...", I won't continue with what Bob said next but Hibberd has not been generally terrible this year. He did struggle early but was definitely on the up at the time of injury I don't blame the club for Jetta's absence May is not fat and lazy Lever is no more overrated on these boards than by the All Australian selectors Hannon was not dropped several times last year KK is not all but done

Scott would have to accept that his senior coaching days are over before he came to us or any other club as an assistant. I don't think he's there yet. (And in truth, it's too early to tell either way.) Do we know he'd be any better as a director of football? Would prefer someone who has runs on the board from coaching, or managing, at a successful club.

Thanks Red, i honestly think he just needs a really good block of games just to get continuity into his game. Averaging 17.7 disposals per game and has play 44 games. So hes right at thay 50 game mark where hopefully he'll start to really show what he's capable of.

We'll need to smother that vaseline somewhere else, against Collingwood the week after.

Aren’t they paid actors.. employees of Gil??

What's going on has nothing to do with the coaches, and everything to do with a decimated pre-season + injuries, and the flow on from that.

Baker looks promising, so I disagree on that Otherwise spot on

I was there on level 1 underneath these big mouths in their early twenties. Two Giants fans, one Tiger fan and a female fan in Melbourne gear (?!). Didn't stop mouthing off, targeting us members below. Couldn't concentrate on the game, could only hear one bloke's loud voice talking sh#t like a broken record. Some young children around us were getting upset and supporters nearby were giving it back to the idiots, but I knew that would only encourage them. Three police officers finally removed them two at a time to loud cheers. However ten minutes later they were back and started again. When I went upstairs to the ladies I saw two police officers coming down the stairs (they were only coming down to protect the ground from people running onto it as it turned out) and I spoke to the male officer asking him why the troublemakers were back upstairs. His reply was yes they are allowed to. What kind of answer was this? I just shook my head and walked on. They wonder why there is trouble late in the game and after the game. Because they do not practice prevention. Tempers could have got out of hand if these fools had decided to come down and if they had been drinking. But no, protecting the ground from anyone deciding to jump the fence too early before it was time to do kick to kick on the 'G was more important I guess. What is the point in reporting unsociable behaviour if nothing is done about it. Honestly, going to the football is becoming less enjoyable and I feel sorry for the kids. It wasn't fun for them being mocked just for following their team.

For my mind it’s simple now, season is done, so make sure we are best prepared for next year: - Don't play anyone unless 100% fit, healthy and with appropriate game time at VFL level under the belt - Play everyone who needs to build experience and game time at senior level with a focus on learning and development. Play a really simple game plan that encourages them to use their natural instincts - Make sure anyone who will need surgery prior to preseason has it done ASAP so that they can actually do a pre-season - Start the search for new line coaches, fitness coach, kicking coach ASAP and get them on board immediately to maximize time to gel with the group prior to next year - Cop the AFL fine for not tanking with good grace and move on

In: Salem, Hibberd, Weideman, JKH, ANB Out: Petty, C. Wagner, Spargo, Stretch, Garlett FB: Hibberd Oscar Hore HB: Salem Frost Fritsch C: Brayshaw Oliver JKH HF: Baker T Mc Petracca FF: Smith Weideman Hunt Foll: Gawn Viney Harmes Int: J. Wagner, Jones, Lockhart ANB

Jake Levers foot pointing 180 degrees as he limped of

Aw, gee, do we really want to see the best players on the sidelines just because they deliberately break the rules of the game? This could cost someone a Brownlow! Do we really want to see a star player miss out on a Brownlow just because they repeatedly show they can't conform to the rules? What's the game coming to?