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I think Goodwin is a very good coach with a game plan that can win finals. He shows a lot of flexibility and creativity at selection and on match-day and seems to have a very good relationship with the players. The players he brought to the club - Hibberd and Melksham - they were there when the whips were cracking and both have been good pick-ups. I like his handling of the press conferences, he knows what we need to improve and he'll make inroads. We've got some game play issues - inability to make and stick tackles, inability of most of our players to reliably hit easy targets, inability to compete in the air around the ground. Some are easier to fix than others with personnel upgrades. Culture and on-field leadership clearly remains a problem - we lost 5 very winnable games this year, we need the new generation of leaders to come through.

I'd target Whitfield over Kelly based on long term salary cap and probability of getting a deal done in terms of not giving as much away. I personally think Whitfield playing outside of Clarrie and Viney would be huge

Lever will say nothing until the Crows finish their season. Quite rightly, his focus should be on winning a flag this year... before he nominates us and works at winning another next year... as for your missus...can she take a decent intercept mark?

I'm as gutted a anyone about missing finals but i swear this forum gives rise to a lot of irrational sooks. Suck it up people, there is no magic wand, we are building for long term success and i think the future looks better than it has in a long time. Sure there are problems, but we were an utter basket case and we are now trending the right way. I don't think there is any upside in crucifying the club because they don't word their anguish in a way that resonates for you specifically.

I wouldn't have thought we'd be too deeply into Josh Kelly. Nth (amongst others) appear obsessively hell-bent on selling everything to get him over. It'd be irresponsible of us to try to out bid that sort of lunacy.

Actually a few years ago every team could have had him.

Look i'm over it Jnr. I couldn't really care less anymore. But honestly i don't understand how you can see things so black and white, no pun intended. Yes the pies took 7 marks in their forward 50 and yes Cox and Grundy smashed us. But honestly, i don't mean to be rude but it just way to simplistic to simply blame the defenders for this. They were poor as it turns out. Only jetta of the back six got close to a pass mark. The rest were average particularly Hibberd, Tmac and Hunt. Ironically enough despite this we still kept them to under 100 points (just) and once again couldn't muster a winning score. But for god's sake the midfield pressure was appalling in the first quarter, when all the damage was done. Woeful. We were down 10 contested possessions at quarter time. Ten!. We were at least that many tackles down. We didn't lay our first tackle until the 20 minute mark of the fist quarter. 20 minutes of AFL football without a single tackle! We only laid 3 for the whole first quarter. Unforgivable. Grundy smashed us? No wonder given Gawn barely could stay with him all day. Gawn's defensive pressure was appalling. His job is to ensure the opposition ruckman don't swan in their forward line and get easy marks. Martin also toweled him up. I just hope injury is to blame. There is lot of love for lever on this site and i'm also keen to get him. But their defence gave up 100 points against a low scoring side and were dominated in the first half. Was that because they their defence as poor? No of course not. It was because as we could all see, like us against the pies, the crows simply did not apply anywhere near enough pressure all over the ground, but particularly through the mid field. Lever won't help a jot if we play like we did last Saturday. And if we don't bring the required pressure every game we also won't fully benefit from his real skill which is his intercept marking. Like Rance he is at his most dangerous when the opposition are forced to kick under pressure into their 50 like we were by Brisbane and the Pies. Such kicks rarely hit targets or go to a forwards advantage and are easy picking for players like Lever, Rance and dare i say it Howe. Sides putting more pressure on than us than we do on them mean that it is not just down back we get out marked. We got out marked all over the bloody ground for the last 9 games of thew season. But sure Jnr blame the defenders, in particular the talls. And let yourself believe that lever will fix our problems. Knock yourself out. For me i'd rather take a more nuanced, dare i say it modern approach to analysing what the problem is and therefore what the solution might be. As Goody will be no doubt. I think a really good question is the one BB alludes to above. Is our zone system the right one? And the corollary does our game plan measure up? Our game plan completely depends on manic pressure. As we have seen since the dogs game any drop off in that pressure exposes our zone defence, in part because as BB notes it allows teams to move the ball quickly through the corridor. Lever will help no doubt as he will cut off some attacks but we saw in the crows wc game it still won't be enough if we don't apply sufficient all team pressure. The other problem with our game plan and aggressive zoning is that poor disposal and turnovers exposes us on the rebound, much more so than say the pies or teams with less aggressive zones. Buckley has been often been criticized for not being tactically savy or up with modern approaches. An example is he plays a much more traditional man on man defence. But the advantage of that approach is that it offers protection against quick ball movement and turnovers as defenders are better placed to avoid getting caught in no man's land. We saw this on Saturday when they were able to stymie us and not allow forward space even when we moved the ball quickly. Dunn thrives on this approach and played really well on Saturday. I really wonder if Goody's game plan is the right one. It is very taxing and depends on having players who do not tun the ball over a lot. But i also wonder if our wretched run with injuries should be factored in when assessing its effectiveness as should the fact that it is far from bedded down and is work in progress. I hate to say it but Richmond are playing exactly the game we aspire too. Manic pressure all over the ground. Pressure that means sides dump kick into their forward half and often into the tigers hands. Intense forward pressure that traps the ball there. Aggressive zone defence. Unusual forward leading patterns. Cross the ball and hold it until there is an opening and then move the ball super fast and run in waves. Hard gut running, particularly defensive running. But they have a great run with injury and have by in large better users of the a ball. Still they are the template for us. And i expect we will look to use that template. But i'm out. I'm not going to comment any more on this topic. Let's agree to disagree and move on to trade rumours and who to draft.

However, Bitterness will be offered a new contract.

We should take both of them.

Some of you need to learn show some respect. These guys are working their arses off for this club - they all want to succeed, and I expect they want to succeed at the MFC. Sure, some of them aren't quite good enough, or haven't showed quite enough, or are past their used by date. But, for a period of time, they have served this club, they have sweated for this club. Surely this is to be respected. For those of you who seem to take some weird glee each year in the delisting thread, pull your heads in. I expect many of you don't even know what the inside of a weights room looks like, nor would you look any of these players in the eye when delivering such harsh criticism. They are not cattle. Rather, they're footballers who've represented this club, some of whom may potentially represent it for a few years to come. Fair dinkum.

You are re-writing history. Lewis came to us and said I want to play at Melbourne. No player of that calibre has come to melbourne in 25 years. It was a coup that he wanted to come to us. He has added to some steel and composure to our side. We didn't 'recruit' him per se to become a match winner for us. You are over egging the pud there.

It can be a bit choppy, but normally it's pretty good.

I have a Latvian background - I can tell you we are indeed good! ??

Those Northey sides also had periods every year of dropping games to lowly sides that cost us a double chance. Every finals series we were scrapping in sudden death finals because they'd dropped a series of games (talking 5 losses in a row) including to bottom teams. They were still good times to follow the club but don't glorify those years, we under achieved and faced the exact same problems we did during the Balmer, Daniher and now Goodwin years. Stupid losses costing us the double chance/finals.

IMO supporters who claim Vince and/or Wagner should be delisted have no cred. Wagner is sponsored by Demonland FCS! Vince is a recent B&F who brings much more to the team than the occasional turnover!!! I don't have time to list the data... so I guess that makes me a [censored] with an opinion!

So why do we want Taberner? They don't rate him, and they've been a side that have chased every key forward under the sun for years. So if he can't get a run, why would he get one with us? Makes no sense to me. If we want to recruit players, we want them to be best 22. We need to improve our side, not just simply add to our depth. That will happen when we recruit good players and we push others out.

Never to us. It would have been hard to get him that year, as he had already committed to Dick Pratt, before he pretended he was still deciding which club to go to and wasted our time looking at our facilities and discussing his move. Not my favourite footballer.

I like Goodwin and our game plan, but I feel we need to be more direct out of the stoppages and hold our forward line structure in place early in games. We are obsessed about maintaining possession out of the stoppages, which leads to over handball, and generally costs us territory. This plan works well later, when the heat of the game reduces, but is costing us in the first quarter.

Nah knowing Australia Post it was mailed out last Thursday. If there's one organisation more amateurish than the MFC....

I gave it to the club on the Facebook page the other day. Fancy sending out finals emails before Round 23, particularly when we could still miss out and there was a week's break in between. An absolute disgrace. We've been like the Melbourne of old the past week. A rabble once more. Utterly embarrassing. I don't know about anyone else but I've been very quiet on my social media account in the past few months and very humble in our victories. But everyone's been giving it to me for the pitiful exit and now to make matters worse, we have these finals flyers being sent to us in the mail (as well as by email last week). Back to being [censored] embarrassed to be a Melbourne supporter again. Congratulations, you muppets. The whole affair stinks of arrogance and premature backslapping. Hate it and it needs to change. Not good enough, MFC. My family and I attended 17 games again this year, including a limp and insipid Tasmanian showing. It's about time we started respecting the heart and soul of our club - the members. This last week on and off field has almost certainly cost us at least 5,000 new members in 2018. Next time do your job properly, otherwise you can bugger off.

The worst type of player in today's footy, is the player who gives it to the other side. On saturday for example, the Pies kicked all of their 6 first quarter goals from turnovers. Digest that for a second. If we don't turnover the ball as much in that first quarter, we are in the finals. Most of Tyson's early possessions were turnovers and they KILLED us. Before some of you rush in and say " but at least he gets it", that is not the answer, as often he is given it by other players and then gives it away. Ask your self what would you rather have, a player who gets 15 contested possessions and never turns it over, or a bloke who gets a mix of 25 contested and uncontested possessions and turns over 15 of them. Add to that a player who can't be relied on to kick simple goals when other players pass the ball to him, who has no pace to apply pressure and who doesn't usually run the game out.

It's not an out, it's an explanation. If all else is more or less equivalent, more experienced sides will always have the upper hand. There are always exceptions, but it's no surprise that premierships are invariably won by teams with a core group of 150+ game players, Hawthorn and Sydney being the case in point in modern times.

The evidence, regardless of our finish to the year, is 12 wins and improvement in many areas across the board. That's evidence of a very good coach, but he'll need to show he is a great coach to get us to the next level.

I wouldn't want our players to have much of a connection to our supporter base. We are a battered, negative bunch. We need players who are self confident but also willing to learn from their mistakes. Let's hope we finally have that group.

Coming soon. Special MFC 2017 Weg 2017 premiers poster.

What a difference a week makes. Forgive me for stating the obvious but how much different did this time last week feel? Quickest transition from Winter to Spring ever.

Steve has this view that if you're not attacking the club then you must be defending it. If you're not ranting and raving, you must be happy with how things are. I'm surprised anyone even bothers replying to him anymore tbh.

Yep, win win. We swap our VFL level player for their WAFL level player...

This bloke regularly breaks the rules with impunity and the reason why he gets away with it is because he's got a "stronger arm" than anyone else in the AFL....give us a break. Poor bloody Gawn cannot even do what he does in a Ruck Contest, for Gods sake....

Round 1 is probably the best scenario to appease the Pies. The first week tends to attract big crowds and so kicking it off against Collingwood would probably get 70k through the gates. Having it after QB probably limits the appeal and if one team is already knocked out of finals, it makes a 50k+ crowd tougher to get through the games. Two clashes before mid-season benefits both sides.

I could actually make a case for all four of these. We've had some cracking goals this year For pure emotion, I'd have to go Watt's goal on QB. For sheer epicness, definitely McDonald's goal to sink the Eagles at Domain. For unbelievable flukiness, it's hard to go past Oliver's goal from the boundary in Adelaide. For perfect execution, it 100% has to be Jayden's torpedo at 3 quarter time in Darwin. Honorable mentions to Pederson's running goal against the Lion's and Hannan's collection of mouth-watering crumbs.

We must have been told Josh Kelly isnt interested in MFC, or hes staying at GWS. Unless something's happening behind the scenes. Would hope we are making Kelly priority 1 if he is available. Lever a distant 2nd.

Hard to choose. I'd like to go with Oliver but I reckon it clipped the post. For sheer joy I would go with Watts first, with McDonald a very close second.

The defence isnt tight. On good days the mids keep the ball going the right way and all is well. On days when we play teams that like to play the lines our style and capability of defence has some hope of corralling or just knocking over the line. For all the fawning over a wonderful zone tactic it is in reality just old school defending. Where we get split open and made to look as inept as the structures would provide is where oppositions have the temerity, the unmitigated gall to play the corridor. To this observer zones CAN NOT work then as there is nothing per se to protect. It becomes about the man and we don't man up. This IS why when other teams twig they can kick to a presenting fwd..or tall timber because they won't/can't be owned by our defence. Its not designed to. This is why the Levers of this game becone crucial. Theyre spoilers. They can mark when able and are good thinkers/ decision makers. Hibberd.. gem. Hard to fault. Cant do everything ( but tries ) Jetta. A rock. Almost unbeatable but gets pantsed when he has to take on someone with 300mm on him. ( But tries valiantly ) Hunt. Hot and cold rebounding/attack . When ON...wow...when not...where is he. He's young and will get better abd wiser. Fun times ahead. TMac...not a back.. as others rightly suggest DN ver 2.018 onwards Oscar Oscar Oscar. Dont think...do. Thinking is NOT your forte. Has got better. Doing some things well. Will do better with more experienced players beside him. Frosty. Exciting, but incons. Raw with potential. Floats between hero and nqr. Is really either depth or trade currency. Milkshake...see Tommy. Go forward. Might he be outside mid potential. Salem. Just needs to be FIT and WELL reallt. Be wonderful for him and us Vince...please leave it to the backs...just go annoy someone Lewis....am happy for him to drift through the back etc organising others where needed and taking those clutch moment marks. I think the defence needs rethinking. Current plan nqr !!

Congrats Great Return to AFL Footy

I agree with all of this, especially his flexibility with positioning and his willingness to change things up when needed. I do think he was a little stubborn with the overall gameplan, in terms of having the two coming off the back of the square. It worked in the first half of the year but teams started working it out in the second half of the year. He needed to make a few tweaks but seemed to just stick with it. It really came back to haunt us in the North and GWS games when the conditions called for something different. I think he'll learn from that though and they will develop a plan B and C over the course of the summer to be ready for it next time.

Again, maybe I'm being thick but I'm struggling with the idea that one player has responsibility for the outcome when the whole team was pus. Maybe Lewis' influence added 5 goals to our side but we still fell short - how would we know? I find it hard to be critical *or* appraising of his leadership when I wasn't on the field or in the coaches box. To me it's a leap too far to say "we lost, therefore Lewis failed to exert the required leadership". The Lewis effect is 100% guesswork. Maybe we're saying the same thing from opposite angles.

Why are we revisiting history on Martin? haven't we got enough fresh new material to bash ourselves with? Every club has their hard luck stories on "the one that got away". if you have to shoot yourself, do it over things that actually happened, not things that didn't happen.

I wasn't able to call in but I found this to be the counseling I needed, well done to all.

Well Dave the best I can do is a guestimate. This year I paid my membership and purchased a shirt as usual. I also added a new Beanie. About $ 650.00. Some members would spend more, some less. Let's say $500.00 on average. Let's further say that around 2/3 of Demonlanders are members. That's 3000 in round figures. Do the maths. $500 X 3000 = 1.5 mill. So I reckon the 1.5 million kicked in by the Demonland whackos entitles us to an opinion.

Definitely thread worthy.

Haven't got mine yet. Feeling strangely disappointed. No idea why lol Bit like waiting for a stale packet of crisps.

Well, there is one difference. The supporters care about winning ...

His middle name is Aliir too.

Wouldn't have mattered. MFC would have put him in a stupid blazer , beat the mongrel from him, made him publicly repent in front of the media for his sins and reduced his effectiveness by half.

Prefer him over half the numbnuts that wore our colours on saturday.

Looks like Schwabb has a new account on DL.

Nothing story , mountain out of molehill