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I have no doubt that our 12 wins season for 2017 was well short of what the team SHOULD have achieved - 16 wins minimum IMO. I shouldn't have to explain why - every Melbourne supporter with a ruthless streak, who follows footy - and I mean follows footy - knows why. As soon as the players and coaches develop a ruthless spine of expectation and MATURE, and ignore the pitter patter of pats on the back from the 'Cheese Platter' brigade - the more RESPECT they will have from the comp and opposition supporters. Finishing OFF opposing teams by putting foot to their throat when in front by 4 or 5 goals, instead of putting the 'cue in the rack' or clocking off early with plenty of game time left...is a hallmark of a ruthless team and club. Another thing..... Disgraceful starts to games says more about mindset and preparation before games than just the players performance themselves. Ben Dixon highlighted perfectly the lack of defensive pressure v Brisbane through visual examples on League Teams on Fox Footy Channel and described it "very lazy" - suggested that if Collingwood started like they did v Adelaide and Geelong - that the Pies could tear the Dees a new one in the first quarter. He said the Demons needed to be on the ball from the start and work hard defensively because of the Pies midfield and their kicking efficiency early in games. Now, I'd like to think our coaching staff are thorough! Thorough enough to take note of footy analysis which is easily accessible by experts. But given the output in the first quarter on Saturday - leaves a lot to be desired and tells me very much - how prepared the team actually was, and how much they were switched ON.

Anyone hear Scully saying Kelly should stay at GWS because money isn't everything? Oh the irony of that pathetic little lying turd!

They are all carying one of these.... oh look, NO TACKLES

Shockingly, 30 seconds of research on my phone while waiting at a tram stop reveals that Brown & Weideman were at Eastern Ranges together & would likely be mates. ooh, conspiracy! FFS.

Dunno about the rest of you, but i have spent the last couple of days regularly clicking on 'Land....................... I was hoping for answers..... no idea what that was even going to look like. I was hoping i would read something, ...................ANYTHING that would make me feel better about how our year finished. Clicked on the interview Nate Jones did today... closed it before the footage started. Dont care what was said. Words..................... Im over words. No longer expect actions either.................. Actions are what other clubs do. We do words. Not getting much solace out of seeing how upset the rest of you are feeling either. At least i know im not alone i guess. Still not making me feel any better. I have no idea how to feel, or what to think. Next year means [censored] all to me right now. The players could do a video with all of them making a blood oath to each other and the fans, promising..... well, they could promise anything right now and i just wouldnt believe it. Thats where im at. All my trust in this club is gone. How on Earth can anyone believe we will be better next year just as a matter of faith? Im going to go into next year not believing ANY positive news coming out of the club and its players. Have been burnt by MFC too many times to take them at their word any more. The veil of negativity will be covering my face like an old Italian lady at her husbands funeral. So flat about the footy right now i wish i could just forget the past 40 odd years and care about something else. Problem is i was indoctrinated by my father as soon as he had the chance. What choice do i (we) have but to front up next year and do it all again. [censored] you MFC...... Its well overdue you repaid the faithful with some success. If we ever win another premiership the players should stand back and let the fans collect the medallions. Players come and go... members and supporters are generally MFC until they die. FFS even this rant didnt make me feel any better.............................................................. I hate Melbourne right now. Gonna take quite some time to repair the damage. Boy am i gonna make them earn my trust this time. No more free rides. Damnit, they have reduced me to a jilted lover. You Bastards.

Sums up our year, getting ahead of ourselves.

When I die I want the Melbourne players to lower me into my grave so they can let me down one last time.

Nothing story , mountain out of molehill

if ya gunna talk the talk, ya better walk the walk ( first )

Hannan is only popping in for a minute .

The word is Dom Tyson will be coming as a butcher.

OK, a couple of days have passed. We have heard the glib (expected, no very placating) statements from the club. Reflections? It was actually exciting to go to the footy this year. We were in most games, and we were much better to watch when we were 'on'. Best game: Bulldogs. 4 quarters of awesome! Best result: West Coast! What a last minute win!!! Best players: Oliver (how the Fukui did he not make the AA squad!), Trac, Viney, TMAC (forward) Jones, Hibberd and Milkshake (great pickups!). Cameos from many others. Disappointments: Kent. Lumbar puncture (why wait until after list lodgement to decide you are not up for it!). Max (back end of season). Bugg (that hit). The umpires! Injuries. Will they make it? Stretch, JKH, Hulett, White. I believe the Swans game was the beginning of the end for us. We were absolutely smashed defensively that day, and we only ever played in fits and starts after this. Were the young guys too tired?? Did they slip back into bad habits? Issues: Ruck and contested ball winning in the back part of the year. Defensive spread in the midfield, exposing the back 6 too often. Inside 50s, forward pressure, forward targets Too many crap quarters Not being able to smash teams when in front Panic handballs Inability to shut down opposition marks Ability of the whole group to stick tackles Predictable off the back of the square bounce strategy Not being able to counter a loose man behind the ball (Intercept marking made easy. Make Jeremy Howe look good) Kick ins I am absolutely gutted by how we missed the finals. It sux to be us right now. I will be really pizzed off if they don't take this as a kick in the arse and develop some resolve. Not turning up on Saturday was a crime.

Nothing wrong with what was said. It would have been done to try and get a psychological edge on the opponent. I'm sure St Kilda were talking it up also at different stages. Happens very game for every side. Makes for interesting reading but that's it

To the untrained eye this looks like a witches hat but melbourne supporters know otherwise

T Mac ! the guys has played two bad games in his career at the MFC. Have you forgotten the 5 goal winning game against the Eagles a few short weeks ago? Give me a break.

Really? You guys take issue with that? I get the angst now, given what has transpired since, but FMD....

Aside from the obvious disappointment, the key lessons from the year IMO are: 1. Tom McDonald is a key forward. His marking and goal kicking is fantastic, as is his pressure when the ball hits the ground, and we should be aiming for 50 goals out of him next year. 2. Oscar McDonald will make it. The jury was out for me at the start of the year, but I think he improved and his kicking is not the liability that others feel it is. He just needs to put on another 5kg in the gym. 3. Dom Tyson is a butcher. His kicking is terrible and he is borderline best 22. 4. Our midfield is too inside and lacks skill and pace on the outside. Our most important task over the offseason is to recruit a wingman like Isaac Smith, Josh Kelly, Higgins or Sidebottom. 5. Melksham is a bona fide AFL player. 6. Hibberd was a fantastic pick up. 7. Petracca will be a gun, but needs to build a tank and drop 2-3kg. 8. Gawn needs to toughen up and throw his weight around. 9. Harmes and ANB made progress but Stretch has gone backwards. 10. Vince is a tagger not a backman.

Tourette's Tuesday.

I heard we tanked because Adelaide wanted pick 10 or better.

Just discovered............Dees 2017 game plan:

I get why we're talking number of 'wins' as a measurement but why are we not also mentioning percentage!? Especially after the weekend!? We should be putting other teams to the sword with +115.00%

Goodwin, now mentally scarred. Dragged down by the curse of being associated with the MFC. Forced to endure the afterlife forever wondering about that 105.2 percentage. On dark Sunday nights at the MCG when the wind is up, some say you can still hear his voice in the coaches box, shouting "just kick the bloody thing!!!!!!!"

We ended the season only 3 and a half games off the top of the ladder this season. Let that sink in. The club should be absolutely livid with how they let this season slip away. And I'm not just talking about making finals. We blew a golden opportunity to go deep in finals and really compete.

Melbourne was placed fifth after round 14 but the Collingwood loss was its fifth in nine games and the club ultimately missed finals by 0.5 per cent. Same crap thats been happening for 50 years. Remember when we were on top of he ladder in 2004 after 18 rounds then missed the top 4?

He'll fit in well into our backline.. That horrible chip kick up the middle in the last 5 minutes that results in Lewis Jettas goal on Sunday

I reckon we're the only club whose supporters regularily get potted by the press...and now by ourselves. Personally I dont know any " cheese platter" members. The ones I know deeply care. imo we're a passionate, burned and hardened lot caused by the many on and off field heartbreaks. Of all the clubs once someone signs on we lose the least. Nothing cheese platter in that. we're a committed bunch...THE most committed in the league. So, Quit bagging supporter types or lecturing on how we need to be as a supporter. We need ALL our frikn supporters. EVERY KIND and type and charecter is welcome in my book. Collingwood has hard core members but also plenty of softer corporate types but they all buy memberships and make the club strong. We have to take care of each other here because the press shits on us as supporters at every opp. We're ALL hurting atm...lets try not to turn on each other.

I really hope you're joking.

Well, there is one difference. The supporters care about winning ...

I'd be more concerned with soft bellied players than "soft bellied supporters" Steve. We pay - we expect them to play.

The Demonshop are selling discounted ladders for the DIY in all of us. To stop us and the players from climbing to dizzy heights we have taken the precaution of removing the top rungs for you.

Now THIS made me laugh - droll, but very, very funny. If I was close enough I might share a whisky or two for making my day, Biffen. The orange cone came in a very close 2nd. Aah, the joy of cynicism. It makes me feel soooo much better!

you may then enjoy the recap from ol' friend Titus; "Collingwood (99) v The most frustrating thing ever invented in the history of time (83) Some days it dawns on you that you’ve wasted enormous chunks of your life. As a Demons fan, these days come with alarming regularity. Against a Collingwood side that had little riding on this game, except saving a not very successful coach, the Demons played this with the intensity of the EJ Whitten game. There is no excuse for what happened. Melbourne had the chance to secure themselves a spot in the finals, and they blew it with a performance as disappointing as it was predictable. Let’s not forget, the Demons had a chance to play finals last year, only to lose to an awful Carlton side. The thing that made me most bitter about this performance was it meant I had to effectively barrack for the Dockers and then the Crows to win. Who puts someone in that situation? Not a friend. Was this the worst weekend of my life? The thing about Melbourne is they give you so many to choose from. Did anyone in the world have a worse weekend than Melbourne fans? Well, let’s just say I had people who are living in Syria call me to see if I was OK. I guess expecting to rush back into finals after just eleven years out was a bit ambitious. I’m just waiting to see the Brisbane Lions rebuild overtake Melbourne’s in the next few seasons. One thing you have to give Collingwood credit for is they at least have pride in their club. They just wanted this more, pure and simple. They would have also been thrilled to discover the Demons decided this was the week to give up tackling."

Yeah i do. Finals were never confirmed all year. Particularly during the St Kilda clash. Theyve not only been drinking their own bath water, but they've been bathing in it for months.

Don't get too worked up over this stuff. It's pointless now. Move on and focus on next year.

[censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] Nup still working.

We need to find a role for him, down back he has become a liability. We should have used him as a tagger all year, I think that should be his role.

Oath. The way Jones speaks about us missing finals due to a "culmination of results" during the season is evidence enough. He deflects and defends the performance. I don't understand. It should be viewed in the exact opposite way. The culmination of results during the season got us into a position whereby we would make finals if we won our last game of the year. A game against a Collingwood side who were missing Pendlebury, De Goey, Wells, Ben Reid, Varcoe and Greenwood. For all the posters who do nothing but defend on this forum and you know who you are, I have this to pose: If you believe it's a furphy that our club has serious deep-seated issues in what real success, ruthlessness and genuine understanding of moments of importance look like then it must be a player thing. And if it's a player thing, why do you lot defend the players who are rightfully criticised in games that are played in a similar fashion to the game against Collingwood? You can't have it both ways. It's one, or the other. Or a little of both.

The MFC is gifted at carefully crafted statements to deflect from the core problem. That is they are not hungry enough to taste the ultimate success - it's been that way for many many years - I find it hard to see it changing any time soon , if at all. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. The performances of other teams in the final round to "get it done" speaks volumes about the lack of hunger or belief that is deeply engrained.

You've got to be f*cking joking? Essendon got the softest AFL sponsored ride I've ever seen the year. Their draw was laughably easy. And as angry as I am at the MFC right now I'd never want to support a club that is still in denial about what happened like Essendon are. You can trot out James Hird on Grand Final day and all anyone will think is 'oh look, a convicted drug cheat that failed to admit his clear abuse of the system, and the bodies of the young men he was charged with caring for'. I won't be giving Essendon a [censored] thing. I despise that club. I hope Sydney beat them by 200 points. They don't deserve to be there.

Wow, 2nd best contested possession player in the AFL, one of the leading clearance players and more handballs than anyone in AFL history, 4th best tackler and 5th in disposals, all in his 2nd year and he cant crack the AA squad of 40. Players like Jonas, Roberton, Ross etc must be superstars of the game then.

Word on the street is they have some hilarious costumes planned. Apparently they'll be dressed up as AFL footballers.

Demonland, I can tell you that the MFC media managers were literally assaulted with emails that were clearly written by disaffected members and supporters. I spoke with one who was deeply upset with the vitriol and nature of emails that came across her desk. The office and off field staff are hurting, the whole club is hurting. All staff were briefed this morning by PJ and Goodwin in anticipation of this. The email rsponse sent out as mentioned early in this thread was obviously in response to this. The club captain had a presser and told us all straight that they are hurting, they realise that they let a chance slip. What else do we want, a public flogging For what it is worth I ran into the mother of one of our prominent players this morning and she is gutted and her son is disconolate and shattered. He wants to get out of town and be alone. He feels just as bad as we do, he is hurting and has the added burden of all the media telling him how bad the club are. MOVE ON

I had the same 3 but in a different order: 1. Oscar McDonald 2. Oscar McDonald 3. Oscar McDonald

Okay, okay, OKAY!

1 - The soft-bellied Melbourne supporter. Demonland is rife with them, (without naming names) and it's an attitudinal problem steeped in accepting mediocrity. It's a condition that has developed over time and whilst I'm by no means as old as some of our loyal supporters, I know that mediocrity is applauded by so many and I vehemently believe that a supporter group's psyche is wholly married to the the club and players. From applauding 'effort' for a loss or congratulating Jack Watts in a game that would otherwise be considered a pass, to some of the posts I've read post-Saturday suggesting that "we're not ready" for finals and we would've been "knocked straight out" anyway. The way some of our supporters can so easily accept and applaud this is genuinely nauseating. The Melbourne supporter is a different type and @Colin B. Flaubert made a sublime contribution in the 'Post Mortem' thread outlining an 'arrogance' that is intrinsic to both club and supporter. As if for us it'll eventually just happen. 2 - Vocation Vs lifestyle. How many players on our current list would you consider are living the life of an AFL footballer vs living the life of an AFL footballer. How many players both past and present could one sit next to Nathan Jones and say that they've devoted the same amount of energy into being an AFL footballer as he has? From Watts and Gawn to Frawley and Sylvia. The list of players who come through the doors of the MFC only to tap into half of their capacity as players and even humans is endless. It's no wonder we haven't unearthed a star for so long. Players need to adopt a philosophy on what it means to live in this world. What it means to have a vocation. What it means to have a purpose. Players need to be educated on what it means to be human. What their their very real capacity is and where it could take them. I look at Sydney and think about their players. Players like Parker. A pick 40 in the 2010 draft. But someone who has wholly given themselves to being an AFL footballer. Max Gawn has one AA year and look at his last month of football? The way he has been playing and the way he carries himself. He is caught up in the celebrity life that comes with being an AFL footballer. Watts is the same. Bugg is the same. Frawley and Sylvia were the same. Examples are everywhere. Who do we hold accountable for this? When does it change? 3 - Genuine list imbalance. This is by far the easiest to fix. This point could be broken down into sub-headings but I will try and keep it as one. I would go so far to disagree with the majority of the supporters on here who believe that the major reason we lost to Collingwood was because of a lack of care or war although there were absolutely some appalling efforts when it came to running defensively and defensive efforts in general from some players which is linked to the point above. I don't care for stats much as most know, but what my eyes tell me when I watch our team play is that we have a genuine lack of decision making and kicking/handballing execution skills across the entire list. It's an obvious weakness and is the sole reason we let so many teams either back into games or kick away with bags of consecutive goals. Other variables such as momentum, individual player confidence and performance levels and crowd also come into play but only after the fact. We lost the game in the first quarter and it was undoubtedly because of skill errors and turnovers. You simply cannot tackle an opposition team when you turn the ball over on the fly. Both tackling numbers were down in the first quarter but ours were worse because we were worse by foot and they made us pay. In the last three rounds of football we had Dom Tyson (Inside mid) playing on a wing, ANB (Inside mid) playing on a flank and Brayshaw (Inside mid) playing on a back-flank. Three players that are playing positions they should not be playing in at AFL level. Wing - To see an improvement next year, we need an actual wingman. A player who has the capacity to run hard two-ways and uses the ball well. That player is not Dom Tyson. He almost single-handedly caused us the most damage in the first quarter on Saturday. His disposal quality, his opponent Phillips and his lack of two-way running and defensive pressure absolutely destroyed us. It would be the same as playing Matt Priddis on a wing. I don't understand it for the life of me. Half-forward - ANB. Role player or not, Richmond have proven this year how important it is to have genuine small forwards in your side. They completely changed the profile of their list by playing all three of Rioli, Castagna and Butler in their forward-half. All players are fairly smart, two of them are good users, they threaten the scoreboard and they're all unbelievably quick and apply manic pressure at all times. ANB was drafted as an inside mid whose strength is his endurance and grunt. He is a player who is limited in his skills, decision making and goal kicking. He simply shouldn't be playing that position. It's like Rohan Bail all over again in that one decent year he had. Half-back - Brayshaw. I understand that almost out of necessity he was re-introduced to the AFL lineup at half-back but I hope supporters now realise like they have with Tyson that he is not an elite user of the ball. He is effective. But he also butchers it. His one wood is as an inside mid and by god he better be back in that midfield mix next year permanently. I'm not going to debate whether or not players like Tyson should be traded/delisted etc like many posters have in other threads. (I'll do that in the Tyson thread). But what I'm absolutely certain of is that these three positions must be filled with players who suit those positions and will therefore change the balance of our side for the better. It'd have an enormous positive influence if we identified the right players with the right attributes. There's plenty more I could go on about in regards to the state of our list but these three positions are a start and the three points in this thread are of great significance to me and are ones I care about deeply. If all three are addressed over the off-season in some capacity, we could see a big jump from the club.

For anyone who thinks that the curse or Norm Smith doesn't exist.. Here is proof that it does. WCE Points For - 1964 (melb last flag) WCE Pointe Agsinst - 1858 (the year we were founded)

This i think is part of why ignoring past records entirely can be dangerous. Ignoring the fact the club hasnt beaten North for a decade is fine for the players but the CLUB and fans have had to put up with being bullied by North. Saying the record doesn't matter is a little insulting to fans who have to put up with it. It's the same with finals. Why wouldn't you use not playing finals for a decade as motivation? I think Goodwin has learned some hard lessons this year and a lot of it has to do with understanding what the club has gone through and why fans react the way they do. When you say "losing streaks" or whatever are irrelevant, what you're saying is that the playing group is separate from what the club more broadly stands for. The playing group regardless of whether they have been there for 1 year or 2 years has to take on the baggage of 17 straight losses to North, or 11 years without finals, or 50+ years without a flag. If breaking those droughts aren't used as extra incentive, it's not wonder the team put up the performance it did on Saturday. We went from one extreme with Neeld and Schwab and obsessing over the past, to Roos and Goodwin trying to not just forget but completely ignore the bad. The team will never move forward until it acknowledges the fact it's been embarrassing for a decade. I found Goodwin's messaging about the North drought to be a massive disconnect between coach and support base, and I have to assume it's the same between playing group and fans. If I found out that the club's finals drought wasn't mentioned in the leadup, it would make me feel like my wait and pain has been pointless. Simply saying "we need to win to make finals" isn't enough. Are you going to really take it on and guide this team to its first finals in a decade? There is undoubtedly a disconnect between club and fan in this regard. Goodwin and co really need to take these droughts by the balls, and acknowledge and understand why they hurt the support base so much. Don't tell me the record against North is irrelevant. It is [censored] relevant because it's a god damn competition, and an opponent has bullied the club and its fans for a decade. [censored] own up to it. To me that is the biggest gauge of measuring any potential disconnect.

You know it's been a traumatic weekend when Mark Neeld's words of wisdom make a comeback

This is all great but the fact is when the real stuff happens and games are on the line we are nowhere. There are numerous example of Melbourne where "we didn't come to play" FFS what is that. Supporters on here knew we would get smashed by Ess in rd 2 last year but the club was clueless. Supporters on here knew that North would beat us this year and the club was clueless. Many here were supremely nervous about us against Collingwood on the weekend. But it seems the club took it as 'just another game' Goodwin has to take full responsibility along with the players for the pizzweak start against Collingwood. He is desperate to keep things on an even keel and not have emotional ups and downs but rather professional calm analysis and measured statements etc. That might be fine when you have a professional football team like say geelong, but we don't. Our team is mentally fragile and needs a rocket. Northey in particular was fantastic at building up teams pre game. he is a long way from Goodwin. I remember the 2000 GF build up. Daniher was 'on the couch' on the Monday after the Brownlow to Woey. He was giggling and loving the build up to the GF. Sheedy looked mean as cats pee and hardly said a word. I knew then we would get beaten. Even more so in the rooms before the game where all the backslappers in the Melb rooms were there, excited to be in a GF and the mood jovial and relaxed. The Ess rooms were high intensity with boxing, shouting and wrestling. We were cooked from the first minute. When Sheedy coached GWS he knew the team would get smashed but he was adament for them never to take a backward step. This resulted in them being well known for giving lip and having a little too much unwarranted arrogance. But it set them up as a club where the standards were high in relation to having a dip. Contrast that with our on and off field leadership. Take out Viney and we have Lewis, Jones, Tom and Bernie. Hardly going to walk over hot coals for that lot. Goodwin needs to get some mongrel quickly.

couldnt disagree with this any more. I think you overestimate the role that we supporters play. so if the 'soft' supporters toughened up the MFC would play tougher footy? please Is Sydney's supporter base reflective of their team or attitude? Has the arrogance of the Hawks fans been an issue for their success? The team were terrible on saturday and there are no excuses. supporters chose to deal with it however they want to