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Hogan at training. Looks a lock.

Haven't seen this posted anywhere else but Jack Watts was on radio this morning about Oliver: "He can do it all. I was with (ruckman Max) Gawny last night and he was sitting in the (coaches) box (on Sunday) and he was saying the coaches were having a little fight because Troy Chaplin our forwards coach wanted him (Oliver) to stay up forward and Ben Matthews (midfield coach) wanted him back in the midfield. He is a super player and I think the coach probably put it on him a little bit last year to really become that full-time professional footballer and he's really taken to that and taken his game to a whole new level." Nice.

Not sure if it has been mentioned anywhere and it really deserves its own thread but this game against Hawthorn is the Pink Lady Match supporting the BCNA. There will be 1000's of Pink Lady silhouettes planted in Yarra Park and it is a very moving site. I looked at the MFC web page and could not find it mentioned anywhere but found it on the BCNA page. I am hoping it gets more publicity as the week rolls by. It is very close to my heart as I lost my Mum to breast cancer nearly a year ago. If you are at the game, please make a donation. Every cent counts. https://www.bcna.org.au/

D O O B Deliberate Out Of Bounds to the anagram Acronym ( thanks Demonstone..lol ) challenged. I can't remember a more contentious rule affecting our game. It's not only horribly considered and formulated but near on impossible really to decipher and the implementation is laughable bordering counter effective to its supposed reason. Fortunately our old friend Titus has received some timely updates . It clarifies it all. A memo from the National Umpiring Director Peter Schwab to all umpires regarding the Deliberate Out of Bounds Rule (DOOB) has been leaked. Here it is in full. FROM: National Umpiring Director To: ALL UMPIRES In recent weeks, the deliberate out of bounds rule has been the source of significant criticism from key stakeholders in the Football Marketplace of Ideas. As a result, and to make your job easier, we have clarified the rule and added even more interpretation, the solution to all umpiring problems. Here is the updated rule, to be applied from this round: Law 15.6.1(c) A free kick shall be awarded against a player who: Intentionally kicks, handballs or forces the football over the boundary line, without the football being touched by another player. The primary consideration in determining DOOB is the player’s intent or what mood the closest umpire is in at the time. A good rule of thumb is if you haven’t rewarded DOOB for a while, just decide that the next ball out will be deliberate, then pause a long time when it happens for the drama and award it. The below indicators can assist your decision-making process: Do you like the player or are they on the secret protected list? Has the player made a genuine skill error? If they have, don’t worry give a free against them anyway. Is the player kicking the ball off the ground under pressure? If so, the player will not be penalised unless it’s a critical moment in the game and the resulting free kick will significantly affect the outcome of the game. Is the player kicking the ball up the field to teammates, or is he kicking the up the ground with the intention of finding the boundary line? The ability to read minds comes in handy here, if you can’t do that, just take a wild stab. Did the ball travel past several opponents who could have picked it up but didn’t in the hope you’d pay deliberate? Then reward this as DOOB. It’s a wonderful look for the sport. Did the player dispose of the ball in a clever ruse of fumbling and even though it’s obviously deliberate you appreciated the acting skills? Then don’t pay a free. At least once a quarter, don’t reward an obvious DOOB to keep things interesting. If DOOB is awarded up the other end, wait until an identical situation occurs up your end, then make the polar opposite decision. As always, Razor can interpret this rule based on the camera being on him and the theatrical potential of the moment. A reminder, with Mark Evans leaving, the Hawthorn Special Treatment Loading is no longer in place. DOOB is less science, more art. As always, we are not looking for consistency or fairness, our aim is uncertainty and confusion, transitioning to anger. I hope this makes things more difficult for you. Yours in confusion Peter - See more at: https://titusoreily.com/afl/afl-memo-clarification-deliberate-out-bounds#sthash.7M7woJXJ.dpuf

Max Gawn will be our Special Guest on the next Demonland Podcast on Wednesday 3rd May @ 8:30pm - http://demonland.com/Podcast

given up? Concussion issues aside, how anyone can consider him to be a bust or not twice as talented and skilled as Kent is beyond me and makes me wonder in disbelief at some views.

Weid is in his second year and already playing AFL footy. Cook was delisted after 2 years. Weid is clearly a vastly superior player. I take your point, but if you want people to take you seriously, probably best you lay off the hyperbole a bit. Casey watchers last year said he attacks the ball in the air. We've seen first hand that he is also capable of moving the ball very quickly and involving himself in general play - see Hawks game last year. He's only 19 - you have gone way too early I reckon.

Would be perfect as the second tall forward for Hogan and second ruck to give Max a breather. He's the kind of player we are looking for structurally. It would mean Weiderman can develop at the right pace instead of being throw in and not having an impact when getting a game. He can build strength and gain confidence in the VFL without pressure to come in and be number 1 tall target when he is still a teenager. Reid could also swing down to key defense if needed due to injury. As a free agent he costs us no draft pick so at worst he is good depth. Good target for us IMO

What, you don't think he's had enough criticism over his career? It's become some sort of sport in itself, let's find some fault in Jack, no matter how well he plays or what he acheives on the ground. See if you can pick out an incident or two where he hasn't put in to your standards and then run with it, that's better than saying good game Jack, 4 goals a number of possessions and several goal assists. Jack is not naturally a bash and crash player, he's a natural footballer but hasn't had the hard edge that some CHF's have had because he doesn't have the body shape of a Carey or Brown. He's playing ruck and that's got him more involved in the game, so he doesn't drift in and out like he once may have and he's certainly playing a harder brand of football than he used to, but that just doesn't seem enough for some.

These are Saty stats. They're completely different to stats based any casual observation. They're insider stats that look at the .001 per centers. Just shows your ignorance.

A pressure act is when you are forced to agree with posts on Demonland so as not to be perceived as having no knowledge of footy, the perception being arrived at by the self appointed experts on Demonland

Spot on Tim. I watched the replay last night and I always find it interesting after reading peoples views on the game. Dom actually hardly made a mistake and got the ball 29 times with less than 80% game time. I thought he was very good. Tom got it a lot and did miss a number of kicks but the positives well out weighted the negatives. As I've mentioned before, I'm a big fan of players who can get it. Both these players do. I'm guilty of typecasting players but when I see my evaluation is significantly different from respected commentators and particularly the coaches I question my judgement. Time for the Tom and Dom knockers to do the same.

I don't think a four quarter effort from our boys would be far off top 4 standard. But as you say, it just has to happen.

Honestly. People will throw the most basic of logic out the window in order to try and back up a point. Tyson has played less games and has therefore had nowhere near the disposals that those three stars of the game have had. Yet he still sits equal third? This clearly means that Tyson is making far more mistakes per match than those three genuine match winners. I don't wish to be labelled a Tyson a hater. Because I don't hate him. What I value on a football field is meaningful disposals, possessions and play. If supporters haven't noticed, Melbourne sit on top of the disposal count ladder. Yet we're sitting 3-3 and 8th on the ladder. If disposal counts were as important as so many seem to believe they are, why are we not on top of the ladder? The way supporters go on about Dom's disposal count is as embarrassing as me saying that we are the best team because we average the most disposals a game. This year, we have opted for a high possession game and it's plainly obvious that we overpossess and are also wildly inefficient with many entries going inside 50. Given this, a single player gathering 29 touches in a game doesn't necessarily excite me. It's what they do with those possessions as well as how they're gathered that is of interest. Dom is an inside ball winner yet he had 5 contested possessions on the weekend. He had 2 tackles and 11 turnovers. 11! Viney, Oliver and Jones had 8 turnovers between them. He had 9 inside 50's. Is that good? Well, given his disposal efficiency was below 70% they can't have been that good. And watching the replay I can tell you that they weren't. I don't need to look at these stats to back up what I'm seeing. All I care about is the effectiveness and meaningfulness of disposals and possessions. And in my view, Dom is the least damaging and least pressure providing mid that we're carrying at present. And as I said with Oscar, if this continues, he'll be back at Casey in no time.

I wonder if he feels some guilt? He could well have been the one helping Jones hold up that midfield for years.

What I find interesting in that article is not so much the content as the respect. It's very clear that Judd has great respect for Jones as a leader. Hopefully he's also right that Jones can play a slightly less physical game and prolong his career a little.

I think we do...they go underground when Watts is going well. But a hint of something NQR and they come out of the woodwork - see the preseason Jack Watts thread. A minority now but quite vocal when it suits.

That's an incredibly dangerous tactic inside the top 5. They rolled the dice and lost. Sorrynotsorry.

Out of bounds. On the full.

Out. JKH in. Hogan Gawn 10 weeks and counting

I've been following this game for a long time and know that when knowledgable footy people have a view that differs from mine they are most likely right and I should at least consider their position before dismissing it out of hand. I think you should be asking yourself why you differ from people who make a living out of footy, notably Goodwin and Worsfold. FWIW Tyson has had two excellent seasons and a poor one and IMO had a slow start to this season. But his poor season and this season coincided with significantly interrupted preseasons and I know when he gets it right he's a very good player. I think he's working into good form now and will be valuable to us and unlike some I'm prepared to consider his positives as well as his negatives. I think you're wrong with Tyson and the coaches votes on Sunday make you look a little silly. Funnily enough while you can always disregard statistics when it doesn't suit your argument it's much harder to dismisses coaches votes.

No he won't. Because you're judging him based on what he's getting wrong. The FD are judging him on what he's getting right.

I might be in a minority here but Melksham brings much needed urgency and impacts contests a lot. I think people don't see what he and JKH were bringing defensively for us on the weekend. He also has some toe. I keep hearing Wagner is quick but I didn't see a lot of pace when he played. Melksham is not as bad as people think.

Agree. One time I think in the 3rd quarter, there was a Melbourne player kicked it in the general direction of the boundary and instead of picking it up as he could, that ^*%#+ Goddard shepherded it out, then looked longingly at the umpire. If the rule is that a player must make every effort to keep it in, then maybe that sort of action should result in a free against the shepherder.

With the deliberate out of bounds rule, there should be one obvious change: If an opposition player could have gained possession of the ball but elected not to, then it’s not deliberate out of bounds.

Coz their main sponsor is on the front right hand side

Not at 29 going on 30 next year... With Lewis as the precedent then maybe a pick in the 80's should do it.

So are you saying that you would have Pedersen as a ruckman over Spencer? Because that is the role he played, he didn't replace Jesse.

Honestly...wtf is a pressure act ? Absolute mumbo jumbo bs. This highlights a big ( for mine ) problem with footy today. This incessant breakdown into non meaningful elements. So much abouts stats are farcical in so much as the metric has either become subjective and therefore non transferable, nor truly comparable or they are half stats. By this i sggest a disposal is actually not effective if it doesnt actually benefit the play ( as opposed left one player and simply got to another, or simply disposed of without penalty. These only half tell a story. So ...a pressure act ? If its about an intent...and not a result....a player might as well be just sneering as his opponent for all the good it will do ? A pressure act ...is that like half a tackle ? Is it like trying to corral a player but not really ? Like contesting a mark but completely in wrong spot...but cobtested !! Sorta not quite. What defines a successful pressure act from a nearly/not-quite ? I'll tell you one pressure act JKH cant do currently...thats Scoeboard Pressure. Now that you CAN measure very clearly !!

Absolute reason, Vogon Poetry. Those knockers will only see what they want to see though, and never let reality get in the way of a good whinge. It's the reason why clubs have match selection committees rather than a single selector. Imagine how the team would differ if we each got a go at being sole selector. The list would be halved for starters.

In some previous games this season ive lamented that i felt some games , there for the winning, were possibly not because not only were some players not doing their jobs but perhaps Goody wasn't tweaking, adjusting the game ( sufficiently )to get us there. A coach can only do so much , but that has to be done. I got a sense on Sunday he's getting better. It was a dogs breakfast of a game and apologies to dogs. Somehow from amongst this garbage a recasting of the runes was required. I thought Goody did well here. I had thought before the game that the halfback line was the 'pivot' . I thought this is where the halt/rebound would instigate. As all over the ground it was just messy. The moving of Vince and Lewis into the midfield fray livened things up. Viney lifted. Things happened. Hurley was really spoiling our party. Kudos..a lone hand ( or two ) constantly using his height/ reach and sticky hands to great effect. Goody's instructions.... get the ball on the deck...get ball. Whether an instruction or a result of now better commanding the guts we didn't search as far and wide coming to goal.Still used the flanks but avoided the pockets. Goals piled on. I thought this was percievably good gameday coaching.

And yet for all their supposed peripheral vision, the Hawks certainly didn't see 1-5 coming.

Judd has to realise that there are different strokes for different folks. One of the great things about Aussie Rules is that all different body types can play the game, and play it on their own terms. Jones is smart enough to know what he can and can't do. He is an MFC champion and I am immensely grateful that we have him at the club.

Because they didn't pick first. They can be happy with Parish. It'd be a different story if they had the choice between Oliver and Parish.

Just saw the Daniher hugging Hibberd footage. Add that to him celebrating his one goal after 7 shots and what a cringeworthy individual. What a clown. This isn't primary school footy.

Sam and Ben Reid are grandsons of Demon fullback of the 50's, Keith Carroll. THEREFORE..... we should have them both!

3965, just signed up the 13 year old. We'll only get to one home game plus the Adelaide match but gotta get to the line!

Club is offering a $75 new balance voucher for next 1,000 people who sign up, I'm thinking of signing my unborn child up that's due in 4 weeks, $50 for a baby dee membership and I get $75 back it's a no brainer

As many on here repeatedly said again and again Our footy department lost the plot over this You didnt need to be Einstein to understand Weid need more development Cost us 2 games in my opinion, any way the Weid will have to earn his position now and I hope Pederson keeps him out all year

Juddy's column about Jonesy http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chris-judd-column-to-age-well-melbournes-nathan-jones-must-learn-to-pay-a-different-price-20170501-gvwhsw.html

if you are relying on the herald suns stats to build your point around it I don't think anyone is going to take it seriously. Mark robinson is their Chief footy writer ffs

I love hibberds face when he does that, clearly less than impressed

That's a good article.

I doubt it. You'd have to be pretty stubborn, I'm stubborn and he broke me.

Out of form and still gets 30 touches, 9 inside 50s and some coaches votes. Not bad. Definitely needs to tidy up his kicking though.

For the Tyson haters the coaches gave him 2 votes on the weekend. He isn't going anywhere. Changes will be minimal

Unfortunately to the layman Melbourne supporter, wins and losses are what counts. Given our recent history...who can blame them. Start stringing together wins and have a (somewhat) successful finals campaign..watch them come out of the woodwork. Although I was only 11 years old, I'll never forget the deafening chants at the G of Melbourne supporters against North Melbourne and Sydney in the 87 finals series. It was spine tingling.

He's coming second in the coaches award behind Sloane. That is flat out taking the [censored]. Are the media giving him his dues? He's 19 ffs.

Apologies in advance to posters who already know this... Jack plays smart! Time stands still when he is in traffic, baulking, feinting, backing out and swinging on left or right foot to deliver. You rarely see him tackled. He is elusive and deceptive! He is the best set shot at the football club! He finds ridiculous targets that others have no right to attempt. He runs both ways, helping out in defence, streaming forward from the wing and making multiple leads from the goal square! He is now an extra midfielder disguised as a ruckman... watch his second and third efforts out of the center circle. All of this has been apparent for some time... catch up detractors, Jack attackers... for the cheque books will be flapping violently when his contract renewal or free agency beckon. Then you will count your lucky stars that Jack is loyal!

We must have been watching a different game. Jacks' intensity was terrific. There was one contest in the middle of the ground that he perhaps could have got low and b lined a rather than try and flick the ball out basketball style (which by the way he is great at) but apart from that i he did not squib one contest and his intensity was terrific.. He tackled well (which he has donee all year - compare his tackling stats to say Kent, went when it was his turn, banged bodies in the ruck (something some don't seem to give him much credit for on DL) and flew for marks really aggressively, something Goody was clear they wanted him to improve. There was no better example than the somewhat lucky free kick in front of goal he got in the third. He earned that free because he put his body on the line. Many commentators had Watts as our best. And that's because he was good in all aspects of the game not just silky outside skills. Oh and reading back through this thread i just saw he got 6 coaches vote. There is no way Goody gives a fella vote who doesn't show the required intensity. No way.