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I wonder when they bought in point posts in if anyone said "why can't they just leave the game alone"?

Alan Johnson, a twice Best & Fairest, was a superb player and makes way for no-one.

Thank you to Macca for starting this topic. For an old bugger like me who can remember the 50s (just) I have decided to restrict my choices to those players who commenced playing with MFC after the 1964 premiership ie 1965 onwards. This excludes Tassie J, Vagg and Townsend and also excludes Carl Ditterich who played his first game in 1963. I would make three changes to the squad. In - Gerard Healy, Gary Baker, Steven Smith Out - Jeff White, Rod Grinter, Laurie Fowler. When he played for us Healy was an out and out champion who kicked over 70 goals in a year in a crappy side and he wasn't even full forward. Mark Jackson was and kicked the same and we still couldn't make the finals. Gary Baker at his best for us was a stand out dominant influence on a crappy side. Steven Smith also played in crappy sides but was a standout performer, often one out in the back line. Positional changes. I agree with ProDee, Jackovich makes way for no-one at full forward, even the great Neeta. At his best he was all braggadocio but he could back it up, kick outrageous goals and make opponents look silly. He also had class as shown by his loving kiss to his brother's cheek when he kicked a great goal. David Neitz to CHB and Gary Hardeman to HBF. Neeta was a champion CHB and had the wood on Carey. A HB line of Lovett, Neitz and Hardeman would equal any HB line in the history of our club and probably the VFL/AFL. Steven Smith to FB and Sean Wight, a dynamic, versatile and determined player, to the back pocket where he played his best games. Alan Johnson was a champion wingman who turned himself into a champion attacking back pocket. Played a 10/10 in a final at Waverley. Could there ever have been a better centre line than Alves, Wells, Flower? Adams, Mithen, Dixon from the 50s and 60s would challenge strongly but Robbie's inclusion sets it above all others. A forward line comprising Wilson, Schwarz, Lyon, Healy, Jackovich and Farmer in almost any configuration would be dominant. Alas, they were from different eras and were cruelled by injury to Schwarz, Lyon and Jackovich. Travis stays. In this company, his brilliance would shine through as he would finally have the players who could take advantage of his sublime ball skills. Steven Febey, Adem Yze and Gary Baker provide flexibility on the bench. Ahhhh, what if?

Neitz to CHB and Jako to FF. Can't see Jako playing second fiddle.

Okay I have one question, The current alignment with Casey has never worked so well, with a full-time Melbourne coach and more funding the club has in just a couple of years gone from the bottom of the VFL to the top, and now with the name change from Scorpions to Demons, this connection is stronger then ever. Why the hell do Melbourne need to ditch this for a 'standalone' team when what they have now is essentially the same thing!?

Here's mine ... B: Alan Johnson Sean Wight Steven Febey HB: Brett Lovett Gary Hardeman Rod Grinter C: Stan Alves Greg Wells Rob Flower HF: Brian Wilson David Schwartz Garry Lyon F: Allen Jakovich David Neitz Jeff Farmer R: Jim Stynes Todd Viney Nathan Jones IN: Travis Johnstone Laurie Fowler Adem Yze Jeff White Emer: Stephen Tingay, Russell Robertson, Matthew Febey, Danny Hughes, Ray Biffin, Greg Parke, Gerard Healy, David Williams, Graham Yeats, Steven Stretch, Brad Green, Cameron Bruce, Earl Spalding Not many from more recent times but what is interesting is that 8 of the above came to the club during RDB's time and another 6 players came to the club from the end of 1985 through to 1987. So in the space of only 6 or 7 years during the 80's the club recruited 14 decent footballers. Let's hope that history can repeat itself in the current era ... that will mean that we'll need to recruit well in the next 2/3 years and our last 3 or 4 years worth of recruiting will need to bear fruit as well. Another interesting point is that only 1 player from our 1980 list managed to last until the 1987 season ... I stand corrected on that point but regardless, it does highlight that Barassi turned over our list to a level not seen previously. Roos did something very similar within his 3 year tenure. The parallels between both coaching stints by both men are quite profound. Those who saw our run of premierships during the Norm Smith era would no doubt have a vastly different team.

For what it's worth B. L.Fowler S.Wight A.Johnson HB. B.Lovett D.Neitz G.Hardeman C. S.Alves (c) G.Wells(v.c) R.Flower(d.v.c) HF. G. Lyon D.Schwartz G.Parke F. J.Farmer A.Jakovich G.Healy R. J.Stynes T.Viney N.Jones Int. S.Tingay R.Biffin R.Grinter J.Townsend Emg. S.Febey G.Lovett D.Hughes B.Green B.Wilson T.Johnstone A.Obst G.Yeates S.Stretch M.Febey A.Yze J.McDonald A.Ingerson A.Davey Cant decide on who for final emergency so taking the easy option Just from the players i have seen play, i think this team would have a crack. And just for fun again my other team of players who would have played more games but didn't either because of injury or left the club/came to the club. B. A.Jarrott (v.c) P.Walsh S.Zantuck H.B. P.O'Brien S.Icke T.Broadbridge C. M.O'Sullivan K.Dyson D.Kowal H.F. R.Dillon E.Spalding L.Jurrah F. R.Brewer M.Jackson P.Moore R. C.Ditterich (c.c) G.Molloy P.Callery Int. from C.Bartram L.Newton S.O"Dwyer G.Osbourne W .Dean A.Lovell P.Hopgood P.Carmen P.Prymke I think Newton, O'Brien,O'Sullivan & Troy could have been mainstays/stars if not for injury and of course death and maybe some have been given abit of a lift as i remember them as a "youngin" and they were all "great" and heroes to me. No doubt in the world i have forgotten some

I would have thought winning a flag after finishing 7th at the end of the home and away season was a pretty good. And a precedent. The week off before the finals was a precedent. Very little was made of the fact that both teams that had the week off lost the preliminary final. There is no question that it helped the dogs who had lots of injuries.

To make top 4, a team has to be seriously good. To make the finals, just more than average, or with a bit of luck. Hawthorn in 2016 made finals based on winning 6 games by less than 10 points. They scraped into top 4 after beating a miserable Collingwood by a lucky kick in the dying seconds by Jack Fitzpatrick. North scraped into finals by winning just 2 more games than they lost. If a Billy Stretch kick had gone to the other side of the goal post, the Saints would have been playing in lieu of North. Now good teams win the close games, but the margin between making it or not can come down to that luck/fortune factor. We were in the race for September but for 2 appalling losses against Carlton and Essendon. We weren't lucky against North, we were against GC the second time. Without changing all that much, or improving just that fraction, we should be playing finals in 2017. We now have the talent and importantly the work ethic to win games. Like North, Hawthorn and even WB in 2016, winning just a couple of those tight games will get us there. Injuries....well that's another story. Particularly if our AA ruckman gets hurt.

2016: THE YEAR THAT WAS by Whispering Jack As the final siren blared at Simonds Stadium to mark the end of Paul Roos' coaching stint on Saturday 27 August, 2016, the curtain came down on one of the Melbourne Football Club's least productive decades in its history, one in which every season had produced a losing record in terms of the results of games played and percentages and a consequent failure to participate in finals. The scoreboard at the ground was no more flattering in that it showed Geelong had beaten Melbourne by 111 points. The Demons last taste of finals glory was in 2006 when they overcame a shaky start to the season to finish with 13½ wins and a percentage of 109.66. They beat St Kilda in an elimination final before losing to Fremantle in the semi in Perth. The steep decline and the dark period in the club's history that followed has been well documented, as has been the club's slow rise from the abyss. When the dust settled on 2016 the club had risen a further two places on the ladder above the year before, recording ten wins and but for the young team hitting the wall and losing its last two matches, a positive win/loss record and a finals appearance might have resulted. Had it not been for the enormity of that final round defeat the club would have finished with a percentage in positive territory above 100 for the first time in a decade. Despite the way things panned out at the very end, it was pleasing to see the club's progression since 2013 when it won a mere two games followed by four and seven over the next two seasons to ten in 2016. A further step forward in the same vein will almost certainly see a return to finals participation next year. Time will tell. The statistical improvement on the field overshadowed somewhat by the disappointment of the season's ending doesn't tell the full story of a season of many highlights. The most telling aspect of the continued rise in the team's performance was the fact that it was achieved by turning to its youth. From very early on, it was clear that the intention was to blood young talent and to give it time to settle into the hurly burly of the game. While the results were at first mixed, there were some pleasing efforts as the team held its place in mid table. There were times when the selectors might been tempted to revert to bringing in some more experienced from the ranks at Casey but they persisted with the policy and we saw a late season charge of three consecutive wins including the triumph against reigning premier and then ladder leader Hawthorn in Round 20. The club's affiliate at Casey finished as minor premiers in the VFL but then went down to Footscray in the Grand Final at Etihad Stadium. Next year they will be known as the Casey Demons. There were some great personal achievements - Max Gawn's elevation to All Australian ruckman status, Jack Viney becoming the club champion, four Rising Star nominations - Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca, James Harmes and Oscar McDonald (with Jayden Hunt unlucky to miss and Sam Weideman poised for next year), but on field happenings weren't the only highlights of the year for the Melbourne Football Club. The club recorded continued growth in membership numbers (now projected to go beyond 40,000 in 2017) and crowd attendances and it posted a substantial profit. Melbourne's pioneering work for women in the sport and the women's game was recognised when it was awarded a licence to field a side in the inaugural year of the AFL Womens League competition. On Sunday, 5 February, 2017 the first team will run out onto Casey Fields in an historic encounter against Brisbane Lions. Much of the good work both on and off the field can be attributed to the club's board and administration led by Chairman Glenn Bartlett, CEO Peter Jackson and the professional team of people they have working under them. Although Paul Roos now leaves the scene he has laid the groundwork and presided over what promises to be a seamless transition to life under new coach Simon Goodwin. While the club might have faltered and lapsed from time to time in past seasons due to inexperience on the field, that is one excuse that will not be made when Goodwin coaches his first Melbourne team in a game for premiership points in a few month's time. He should have at his disposal three new players with substantial AFL experience - Jordan Lewis, Michael Hibberd and Jake Melksham to add to the likes of Nathan Jones, Bernie Vince, Tom McDonald and a bevy of young up and comers at his disposal. A new era awaits.

And the national game is called Australian rules football, not AFL.

Travis Johnstone..... perhaps I would not have him in my team based on most consistent players but if I was picking a team "hoping for a player to display some pure elite magic" he would have to be on my list. Who could possibly forget the third quarter against Adelaide in that final (the exact year escapes me). It was maybe one of the best quarters ever played by an MFC player (certainly was the best I ever saw). Unfortunately consistency was not his best suit but never forget the brilliance !

Agree with Tiers and PD about Healy. From players i have seen live (first game live in 1977) Healy would have to be in my top 5 demon players, no question. Fantastic player who in some ways was the proto-type modern footballer. Smart. Could play multiple positions. Great hands. Skillful and brave. I was gutted when he left. Like PD Alan Jonson has to stay. His combination of bravery, pace and skill made him a top shelf player. I always thought he was underrated when playing, perhaps because he was fairly slight but also an unassuming sort of player who just got on with playing.

Seems the formula is: do they have a superstar forward did they do well last year i don't think they have looked at forward units, but rather the superstar sum of parts. GWS looks scary. The dogs should get marked down for adding Choke. Hawks - a lot depends on Roughie coming back strong. Cyril is always Cyril, and their other forwards are more medium types that do well on the back end of superb midfield delivery ( which may not be there this year). Gald we are not Carlton. If Hogan was a superstar, rather than a potential superstar, we would be a lot higher. Also, we don't yet know how Goodie will play. Maybe he will have spencil in FP as rotating ruck (I doubt it, but who knows what he is thinking ??). Of all the teams, with a new coach and potential to burn, we are probably the hardest to judge.

God save Max Gawn

Alan Johnston Tassie Johnston B Lovett S Tingay Doc Roet G Hardemann R Flower G Lyon G Farmer D Schwartz D Neitz Barry Vagg A Yze A Jakovich Twinkle Toes Townsend M Gawn Frank Adams R Barassi

What i meant was they came from 7th ie nowhere, to conquer the finals, and werent the most talented side around.....

I thought Jetta had a much improved year and finishing 9th in the B & F for a 10 win team is a positive. He still needs to get better otherwise he may get overtaken. It's all in Nev's hands much as it is with many of our more experienced players. He's been coached enough to know what to do and to know what is required. More to the point is that we've got a whole host of players who are still learning the game and that's why we need Goodwin to be a top coach. The sport has become rather complicated but basic fundamentals are still a prerequisite.

What precedent did the dogs set? I would of thought the Hawks set the precedent and won 2014/15 after losing Franklin. How would we be if we lost Hogan? Also for me the comparison to the dogs remind me how mentally weak we are as a side. How many times last year did the club (players) roll out the "we didn't come to play" line? We need to stop being the club that needs to follow another clubs lead and start writing our own history.

Finals are a distinct possibility ... but any optimism, hope or faith needs to have a degree of substance attached. Previously (like many others I suspect) I've been optimistic on the back of a lot of hope & faith. I posted the following points in another thread but the comments do pertain to this thread also ... We've got about 10 players (Viney, Hogan, Jones, Tyson, Lewis, Gawn, Vince, T-Mac, Watts & Jetta) who could be classed as being good to excellent but we're going to need much more than that if we're going to play finals and be a realistic contender. However, a few of those 10 players have a few question marks surrounding them with regards to absolute consistent form, disposal efficiency, manic desire and age. They all need to improve actually, even if only marginally. Also, if we can get at least half of the following players ... Hunt, Harmes, Oliver, Weideman, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oscar, Frost, Salem & Stretch stepping it up to a good/very good level in the next year or so, we'll be well on our way. There are others who might reach that level too. There's a lot of potential but we need to see some real substance. We also need Goodwin to be at least a very good coach. With a half decent run with injuries, I'm hopeful that we'll see some action in September.

Either Travis got lucky here Macca or, as you touch upon, we've been pretty mediocre for a bloody long time.

Full credit must go to Simon Goodwin for lifting us from the bottom of the midfield group and into the top eight without the team even playing a single game.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-02/who-has-the-best-forwards-we-rank-every-club Now this one is a bit of a dogs breakfast.... Freo, Geelong & St Kilda above us for a start. I don't think so... ...not convinced with Sydney, Port or the Dogs forward lines either.

This article just popped up on AFL.com.au ranking our midfield at No. 7 Who has the best midfield? We rank every club Wasn't there an article somewhere recently putting us at second last? I think Freo at No. 5 is a bit rich ... Thoughts?

According to the May 1858 first written rules, the 'behind' posts, or 'kick-off' posts as they were then called, were 30 yards from the goal posts, and so would not be seen in the view depicted in the painting. These posts were relevant to the play in the case that the ball was kicked "behind" the goal posts; hence the eventual reference to 'behind' posts, I guess. In those first rules, the two captains decided the distance between the goal posts, so, in fact, the distance to the behind posts was codified before the distance between the goal posts! How both distances morphed to their current (and equal) measurement is a whole other question

Wrapt the falcons divisonal game is on the Saturday (sunday our time)... in the NFC I'm most worried about the Packers but we'd only met them at home in the NFCCG if that eventuated. Looking forward to sitting back and watching the wild card week play out!

Can't even make out the people, looks cheap to me

Agree that the dogs aren't the most talented, but they currently have the best mindset of any team and are unrelenting in their pressure acts. Their attack on the ball/ball carrier was impressive and they hunted in packs. Last year they mastered the opportunist goal.

Crop rotation in the 14th century. John.....

Ray Biffin wasn't the mo0st gentle o9f characters!

That was his approach in the midfield, particularly this year, and it came in handy having him do it against Hawthorn in the wet. He'll be at half back again this year and rotating to a wing/on ball and if he plays like he did for the first 2/3rds of the year he'll be handy. Especially if the additions of Hibberd and Lewis, and a fit Salem means he doesn't have to take on so much kicking responsibility and can share the ball more. If he get on to a wing he can get it outside and then long bombing in to the forward line to advantage or kicking goals comes in handy.

It was the 2002 Semi Final against Adelaide. He had 29 disposals and 4 goals in a BOG performance. Travis was a big game player and consistently stood up in Finals matches when others wilted under pressure. I was born in the late 80s, so have no memory of Melbourne teams before the 90s. The Daniher years were the most successful years I have witness as an adult so players from that era like Yze, Johnstone and Neitz are stand outs in my mind. Yze underperformed in the late part of his career and still cops far too much flack on here for this. Overall he had a great career and I can still remember him as a goal scoring youngster with fans at the MCG yelling 'Yezee!' as they didn't know how to pronounce his name as he burst onto the scene. He was a very flexible player, having stellar years at HBF, midfield and forward. Johnstone is still the best midfielder I can remember to play for us the past 20 years. He also cops too much flack on here for a guy who consistently stood up in the big games. He played with a tag for 6-7 years straight as coaches knew he was obviously our most dangerous player. He lead the league for kicks and inside 50s for two years running and nearly pinched a Brownlow in 2002. He was the definition of brilliance and we are still waiting for a midfielder with his kicking skills and vision to give us balance in the midfield we need. Hopefully with time a player like Salem, Brayshaw or Petracca can become that player. I don't need to say much about Neitz. He was AA CHB and then AA up forward. He holds the club record for most goals kicked. He's a legend and was a great leader.

Travis Johnstone played 2 good years in 10 seasons. Not a hope in hell he's getting near a "best of". One of the most disappointing and unfulfilled talents I've seen at Melbourne. Or anywhere for that matter.

Wow the AFL website says "The Giants' forward line is, quite frankly, absurd." And yet they so needed all of the draft and academy picks...

Did they list GWS as the top of every category?

I think this is about right for our unexpected forward line. We might look a little better placed at the end of this season.

For me, the only reason to look at that article was to have another chance to laugh at how horribly Mick Malthouse screwed up. Carlton, indisputably bottom ranked for forwards, and yet... Kennedy, Waite, Betts, Garlett, with Jacobs resting forward ruck and Troy Menzel on the bench.

Crap, and I wouldn't work for Trump in a pink fit anyway. But it will be worth a laugh or two over the next couple of years to watch him implode ...

And from a much less succesful era a ruckman who did make the best 150 players http://demonwiki.org/Garry+Baker

Paella in Mornington with Farah Fawcett ? You sick bastard.

Coming into a season with finals expectations is going to be a whole different thing as a supporter. The losses are going to hurt more and the wins will feel less revolutionary and probably less satisfying. Could be a tough year. Hoping its an enjoyable one!

Possibly, but I hope he's put back on the ball this season. He's hard, experienced and skilled - he adds more value in the midfield IMO. Hibberd, Hunt and Wagner (and possibly Melksham) to share the half back roles next year.

Not only that, but with a young group any statistics based analysis is weighted against most of our list. It's classical lag indicator analysis applied to future forecasting. The Champion Data (or any other data) doesn't predict when established elite players fall off a cliff, nor does it predict breakout seasons. The excitement of the Melbourne midfield (and the team generally) is the upside potential in the young talent. If that potential is realised, we'll be smashing these analyses over the next few years. For now, it's a bit of a yawn...

Melb v St Kilda: Mid 7th v 10th Back 8th v 9th Fwd ? If we get rolled by St Kilda in Round 1 AGAIN, I'll be ropable

That was my point, boydie. Whether it's data driven or opinion based, it's not any easy process of judging when you've got 18 teams and all of the players that can roll thru the midfield to consider. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Why bother with Champion data when you can just have all the journo's get together for an opinion piece? My opinion is that our young mids are second only to the Giants. WGAS anyway.

As is Collingwood at number 4. St Kilda is probably a little bit better than their ranking as well. Why didn't Bernie rate a mention? He's worthy of a mention in any team. We have a bloody good midfield now: Jones, Tyson, Viney, Gawn, Lewis, Vince, Oliver, Brayshaw, Stretch, Harmes, AVB, Petracca, Melksham, Salem. Most opposition coaches would like to have this group.

Lucky I got out of Melbourne when I did, the natural disasters appear to be getting worse and more frequent. Have they rebuilt from the earthquake in 2012?