Leaderboard

To me Roos saying it was really poor of him to not make selection changes is him deflecting the attention off everyone else. Deflecting heat from coaches: Immediately after last week's game he had at least 3/4 changes in mind. He allowed the selection committee to change his mind. Its a committee and Roos is no autocrat or dictator. He lets people learn from their experience mistakes. The selection committee has made plenty of mistakes this year (vs Ess, vs StK) and learnt plenty. Deflecting heat from the players: He said a few games ago that whacking the players is not the way to go with a young team. They want to learn and be educated. So he isn't going to give them a serve in public. This way he can keep their morale up, helping build belief. I'm sure that when they do their reviews all the coaches will let them know the real score. And, he certainly isn't going to tell the media what goes on behind closed doors and I'm glad for this. He is giving media plausible platitudes. He is also ensuring that Goodwin and players have a 'bruise free' run in the media this year. So he takes the heat himself. Imagine if Goodwin was in the chair and we had the bad results vs Ess, StK and Port the media would be howling with negative headlines. Roos is doing a brilliant job of protecting his charges. He has broad shoulders. He can and will continue to take the heat!

The game-plan is a work in progress and stills needs plenty of tightening. If a couple of players (even one) get caught out of position then we get opened up like a can of sardines. We lack a couple of clean big bodied mids. Oliver and Brayshaw will be those players. Hogan needs another marking forward to take the heat off him. He's an incredible young player. Bugg has his fans. I don't rate him. Neal-Bullen is a fumbler. He's just not a clean footballer and makes dodgy decisions under pressure. He's young, but should return to Casey. And the less said about Newton, Oscar (so slow and awkward), Kent, Kennedy, Tyson the better. We'll be a better team when Trengove, Oliver, Brayshaw, Salem, vandenBerg and one of Dawes/Pedersen are fit and impacting games. Those first 5 named are talented and that's a lot of talent out of the team. Never underestimate talent.

That's pretty much what middle of the road teams look like - capable but inconsistent. Good footy interspersed with the occasion garbage is exactly what I'd expect from teams in the 8-10 range, which is where we are. I'm no less convinced than I have been for most of the season now.

That was me. Their 5 losses also included losses to us, St Kilda and Port (9th, 13th and 14th come the end of the year). Of course, they went 9-3 from there on, but the point to remember is that young, inexperienced sides in their first year of a much-different gameplan are bound to make mistakes along the way. I didn't think it would take that long for the "Carlton have gone past us" brigade. They beat Geelong. Like we did last year (albeit we did it in Geelong). Their side was 3 months younger, on average, than the Cats', coming in at 25 yr 11m. Armfield stood out today: he's 29. Casboult is 26. Curnow is 26, Everett 27, Gibbs 27, Jamison 30, Murphy 29, Rowe 29, Simpson 32, Thomas 29, Tuohy 26, Walker 30, White 28, even Liam Jones is 25. This is something of a makeshift side which is vastly outperforming pre-season expectations but which does not, unlike the Dogs, Giants or us, feature a nucleus of young kids around which they are building a future. Calm down.

No it is facing reality We have lost 3 games this year against sides we should be beating. We lost all 3 because the team did not work hard enough That includes senior players. Beating Geelong last year was great. BUT IT WAS NEGATED when we lost to Carlscum on the MCG weeks later. Kicking 2 goals to halftime on a sunny afternoon. This club is forgiven far too often by many people

Dislike button would be nice for posts like this, Tyson has played 50 games, was playing well before missing a match with injury, he's a key to our future.

[censored] comparison. Tyson was poor today no doubt, but has no resemblance as a player to toumpas whatsoever. It's a lazy sledge.

As for Geelong, I love seeing them lose. Their arrogance is second to none and IMO that is the second game in a row they have gone into expecting the win to just happen and not working hard enough. Far too reliant on Selwood, Dangerfield and Motlop and if two of those three are down they struggle. Not convinced they are as even across the board as Sydney or even the Dogs are.

Perhaps that completes the set of four: 1. 'I'm calling it now, we'll destroy Essendon' 2. 'Don't care if it's Etihad. We'll [censored] StKilda' 3. 'We're too talented for Port'

I think it's time I bit the bullet and put you on ignore, fence. It's been long overdue.

Someone explain to me please how the [censored] some clubs manage to have one [censored] season and bounce back like Carlton, and I'm still waiting for us to beat a real opposition after 10 years. It is just depressing to see Carlton doing so well. Their list isn't even that good!

And this is why people are kidding themselves in thinking we don't need Prestia in our midfield. He adds class, grunt and extra midfield quality

Today's game blows the theory that we don't need Prestia out of the water.

So underrated it's beyond belief. More important yes. No he has not re-signed to the best of my knowledge and is a free agent I believe. Let's get it done ASAP.

Jack Watts has become our key play maker. His decisions and delivery are just magnificent. With so much inexperience in the side, someone with watts poise and disposal is so important. never will be the contested beast but we dont need that from him. Clearly a better player when we are winning the contested ball which this year we have been. I have little doubt the club will secure his services but gee his link up play across half forward is vital for the team going fwd. possible the best set shot in the league, and rarely stuffs up a possession. Hogan is important obviously but dont underestimate watts future contribution to the clubs chances.

My realistic position on where we are. Positive: We are young, we have lots of talent coming through, we are developing the players well, our future should be bright. Our current best is good verging in very good. Negative: We are young and inconsistent, we have players who get ahead of themselves and think the win will come. Not sure on our defensive game plan (or it may be the players cant execute it). Our worst is still bad but no longer in the depths of very bad we were in. Overall: Our expectation should be for 10 wins, any less than 8 from this group is a fail for mine. We gave up any potential finals birth this year during the second quarter yesterday. The future is looking OK, if the players develop to their potential then the future could be very bright.

Your post is so 2009.

The fact that they beat Geelong despite having only 2 players on the bench for 3 quarter demonstrates that there is still something fundamentally wrong with Melbourne's development, that our causes for losses somehow aren't as big issues for other teams. Carlton is currently ahead in development of where we were at the same time (2014).

Oooh, controversial! I dare you to ring up SEN talkback and raise that one!

That's fine if we win those games we aren't supposed to . I think we are going in to games expecting to beat anyone but capable of losing to even the worst. The answers are not easy to find. The issues are are across the team.Our hand and foot skills are below par. Watts,Salem,Oliver,Jones,Petracca,Viney,Hogan,Gawn,Tmac,Jetta,Vince , Garlett and,Stretch Are the basis of a very good side. Hunt ,Harmes,Wagner and OMac fluctuate as young guys do. Kent ,Dunn,Garland,MJones,Michie,Kennedy,Tyson,H,Grimes have some limitations.None of these guys can use their opposite side but there is hope for Tyson. In order to win a final/s we will need better skills across the board. Any players with these disposal issues can only be a viable part of a good side if they tackle like machines. The back six are totally unstable . TMac,Jetta,Dunn,Vince,Salem and Wagner would be my pick for the Hawks.Omac and Wagner are too green in tandem. I want to see JT back for more poise and skill. I would like to have a look at Hulett. I think Spencer and Gawn can operate together. Would be good if H/ Dawes could resurrect their careers but I don't see it happening .Ditto for JG.

The lead-up to this game was like watching a slow motion car crash. The majority on here opined that OMac wasn't up to it basis the Brisbane performance. Many noted how Westhoff had traditionally torn us apart. Dixon loomed as a threat. The impact of a 6 day turnaround on the younger players 10 rounds in was flagged by others (particularly after the flat performance against the Saints following the previous 6 day turnaround. Pederson was left out without explanation. Tyson who'd suffered the same affliction played. Dunn who was an obvious answer to shore up the defence for many was overlooked. Finally, the markets (who mostly get it right btw) told us promptly what they thought, flipping the odds 48 hours out after teams were announced. Not good enough in my view and the 3 or 4th time obvious selection errors have been made this year. Too carried away with the performances of young, inexperienced kids (promising as they are). Not respectful enough of hardened opposition. Successfully managed to play Wingard and Westhoff back in to form. Just so bloody frustrating. Oh....and btw...for those who think that getting games in to Omac for development is more important than winning games and securing a possible finals appearance this year, please just acknowledge that until the guy has a sufficient skill level to hit a target at 25-30m consistently, he should not even be in the side.

And the baby goes flying out the window with the bathwater

Tmac is getting crucified by Roos. He should not be the number 1 key back, Dunn should be the one to play on the gorillas, T.Mac's strength is reading the play coming in as the second or 3rd tall back the role that Garland can't do. Roos should need to explain why Dunn is out of favour. Roos has cost us any chance of beating the Bombers, Dogs and Power by persisting with Garland. Roos is as out of form as any player on the list he needs to lift.

There's no greater example of zone defending in modern football than kick outs. Every team will push players up the ground, spread them across the middle and allow forwards to make it a foot race back to goal if they can win it clean across their half back line. Port got us so often from kick outs. Now you can blame the zone being too aggressive, which it probably was, or you can look at just how terribly we were once that kick out came. Almost every time they kicked long to Westhoff or Dixon and gathered numbers running through the pack to get the ball over the back, and almost every time Garland and the 2 McDonald's were unable to punch the ball with authority back towards our goal. In fact more than not they could barely spoil, even though it's obvious as can be where the kick out is going. The same thing happened around the ground, but the kick outs were the worst. Operation fixing the zone defending part 1 is: Getting some forward pressure on. Operation fixing the zone defending part 2 is: Getting some defenders willing to either take a strong intercept mark or put a strong fist through the ball and hit it back our way. The inability to get anything resembling a strong spoil for most of the day was horrendous.

Wow. We got beaten by a team that needed to beat us and got the job done. We didn't play well and that was dissaponting. All of those things I can handle. What I can't handle is the sooky, weak as [censored] attitude of supposed supporters taking shots at other supporters and players because we don't win every game with a team of 20 year olds. We will be up and down. Sometimes that will be difficult to stomach - but are we moving in the right direction as a club and as a team? Yes! Sometimes I have to reset my browser to make sure I'm on a Melbourne Football Club supporters forum. Go Dees!

Garrett really? Wow, who should we sign. Just wow I love your 3 word player analysis and not often disagree but that's crazy

Or maybe we are very young and still learning the balance of defence and attack? Maybe we're not quite as good as supporters/media say when we win and not as bad as supporters say when we lose like today. What do you think? Where do you think we have we improved and where do we need to improve immediately to push further up the ladder?

A long way to go...we're classic downhill skiers at the moment. The game plan lends itself to being downhillers, to pull it off we need more experience to direct on the ground, read the play and get the positioning right. ...we can't keep selecting teams on performances in games like the GCS and Brisbane, poor opposition. The team lacks class and leadership around the ground, time for Trengove to come in for one. Should have been ahead of ANB and Newton...it's ok to select on form but you also need to know who can really play. These guys are streets behind him... We also can't go in with players not right...Tyson suffering from a throat infection last week, still struggling, not over it. Kennedy did an ankle pre game, what are the emergencies there for. Too many VFL players and kids out there today...

Carlton 10 tackle in forward half till half time. We had 4 for the entire game to Ports 12. Tell me, what does that have to do with youth and consistency?

We have to give up a first rounder or a quality player. Being that we don't want to get rid of our talented youth, a first rounder it is. Prestia is obviously worth that. He's a top 10 pick who has more than proven himself being a league leading clearance player and would've won a bnf if he wasn't playing behind Gary Ablett, who was in hall of fame brownlow winning form at the time. He'd be a great get. You can never have too many quality midfielders as yesterday's game showed. Midfielders win premierships. We also need a key defender such as Hurley though...

It's also true that we currently lack 3-4 established high quality players around the 24-27yo mark that have played at least 100 games. Prestia will be that in October. We already have a bunch of very good teenagers, need to balence that with some more mature talent. Unfortunately a couple of second round picks and a bunch of steak knife players will not seal the deal.

I am constantly astonished that some posters think that team strategy and team selection is a one man show. Goodwin is taking over after 12 more games and its been clearly stated he will be having an even larger role as this season moves on. He was on SEN a couple of weeks ago - (The coaches box), and he said himself that the direction the team and strategy were moving in was what they hoped would stand them in good stead in the future. He said all the coaching group were heavily involved in developments and they laughed at the comments circulating that there was a tension between he and Roos with competing strategies. Roos knows the legacy he will be remembered for at Melbourne, is not about the games he wins this year, its how he sets up the future. So far it's looking way better than the previous decade.Giving the young players game time is surely aimed at next year and the years beyond. I can't imagine that Goodwin, McCartney or the other coaches are arguing against that. How about this far fetched possibility: The kids are being played early in the season against the weaker teams that we have in general faced, so they can test themselves against realistic but not impossible opposition and then understand and really work on what is required when they go back to Casey. More mature bodies will come in from here on. Maybe the club is also serious about a Casey premiership with the kids in it - to really give them a hunger for success. More likely, some of the more experienced players at Casey are there because they have to remedy long standing faults in their games. In some cases that may be impossible, but at least standards are being set.

Well depends if you actually want to get him, the Suns wouldn't accept an early second rounder for an A grade player. they're be stupid if they did.

You'd take an early second rounder for Jack Viney? That's the sort of impact they'll feel losing Dion will have on their club.

I know everyone says we need a plan B. How many sides in the AFL switch to or have a plan B? Maybe they have reactive tweak to an opposition plan ie: man up their 7th back but so much time is spent ingraining plan A and making it natural that switching it off is easier said than done. Our plan A relies on at a minimum halving the contest and creating good forward pressure. Both were down yesterday. I have no issue with the plan aside from a preference that we leave one man as an anchor back (preferably someone with some speed) to stop the easy 2-3 out the back goals we saw yesterday.

Dean is a lazy Kent. I counted 4 occasions in the first half when under no pressure he kicked it to the opposition. Not good enough - needs to correct his attitude at Casey.

I agree with everything above, PD, except for the bolded part. I think Tommy Bugg has been one of our most consistent players so far this year. He might not be the greatest user of the footy but he runs hard all day, sticks his tackles and finds the footy as well. I think he is underrated by some on here.

I really felt our forwards let us down yesterday (not only the kicking for goal), Their pressure was terrible. So I agree with the sentiment of this thread and the disappointment I don't agree with the argument. They need to keep doing it until they master it. Port highlighted again our 2 biggest weaknesses. the ability to hold the ball in our offence are (zone) and ball use. Our Ball use is terrible as well. The good news is these are all fixable problems, the bad news is it probably won't be this season

North because I can't fucken stand them and I am sick of losing to them and that turd Harvey Hawthorn because I'm sick of being their [censored]. I wanna lemonade their arse Beyoncé style next weekend.

The ghost of Brent Moloney still haunts us.

Reality is we have the least exp team in the afl... 30 games vs 47 Port + finals exp ... Some the posts here are ridiculous!

Our entire game plan is based around us winning the ball out of the middle more than our opposition does, so we can never have enough quality mids, our Zone is an extremely aggressive method of defending that allows us to be scored against a little more easily but significantly increases our ability to score on the rebound, right now we're struggling in game because our skills aren't good enough to turn those rebounds into goals without making mistakes in transition and our midfield is getting beaten at times, i really like the plan, our execution is poor but we will improve. I strongly believe in 2 years time Jones, Vince, Tyson, Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver, Salem, Vanders, Trengove and hopefully Prestia will be feeding off Gawn and we'll have the best midfield in the game, and we'll have nailed down our ball movement and significantly improved in enough areas to seriously push for a premiership.

Reckon a lot of the criticism is unfounded, notwithstanding he is currently struggling. I reckon he'll be a player. Anyone who saw him Round 1 of the VFL or against Northern Blues could see his abilitty on display. Reads the ball well and repeatedly ran off his opponent. However he seems to lack self confidence at the next level so far. I'd be all for sending him back to VFL level, even for the rest of the year in order for him to get that confidence back in himself. It was well worth the experiment for now given Dunn's form has been on the wane. Hopefully Frost will be the next given an opportunity to cement that key defender spot. I really hope we're all over Hurley at the moment!

These threads should be locked until 24 hours after a loss; there are some hysterical, emotional reactions in here.

Also, to half time, Kennedy, Kent and Garlett had a whopping total of 0 tackles between them. If these guys don't lay tackles, there is no press! It's up to the half forwards, just as much as the pure midfielders to lay these tackles. Not to mention, Newton in particular is too slow to play across half forward. I hope his cards are marked now, because he is a truly horrible defensive player.

The wrist-slashing in here is hilarious. Youngest team in the comp, least experienced team in the comp. We are going to lose games that we should win, it's part of the development. Harden up and move on!

To me at least, he is so clearly not ready for AFL football. He's not strong enough, he has no idea what to do with it offensively (the only player in today's 22 who didn't look comfortable transitioning into attack) and he just looks lost in zone defence right now. I'm not putting a line through him, I'm more than happy to give him time, but right now that time should be in the VFL not the AFL. He is just not good enough to hold a spot in the seniors right now.

You are absolutely correct. A smaller player should never outmark a larger player. I also noticed Hogan being outmarked on occasions by a smaller player. Obviously "He just doesn't seem to be able to read the play. Too weak. Has no urgency in his play. Is slow. Slow decision maker. Bad decision maker also"????????????? as "Age" would have us accept. With the greatest of respect to the McDonald hating scribes, I would suggest you watch the Bears and this game with an open mind, try and consider what the coaches are trying to do and pay some attention to how the players upfield have allowed the ball to be turned over and run easily into defense leaving defenders outnumbered. Sadly, I think Oscar and his brother are receiving excessive criticism for perceived errors actually caused by a failing by a player or players upfield.

We gave the warning last week. "WE ALL TOLD YOU SO" Too slow. Not strong enough. Lacks pace. Easily outmarked. His effort against Wines was very average indeed. Back to Casey until he gets urgency and an upper body ready for AFL.

I'm fine with the zone. But when it stops working in game we need to be able to switch to man on man or different versions of it. Otherwise it's just insanity.