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He would've kicked 70 if he played for a top 8 team this year. 44 in a mostly rubbish team with minimal inside 50's and while probably closely managing his body/injury prevention. It's nothing short of incredible. I'm not tearing up, there's just something in my eye.

No fan of Franklin's, but know too many people who battle various forms of mental health issues. Whether we know it or not, most of us will know someone battling personal demons. Don't wish that unhappiness on anyone. Be well Buddy.

I really hate this increasing practice of young players (< 23) 'nominating' clubs and invariably getting to their nominated club. If you're out of contract and want out, then clubs should be able to trade you wherever. Stop putting a gun to your club's head and at least be a bit flexible, either that or wait until you've done some hard yards and qualify as a FA.

The AFL made an almighty mistake last year. Pick 3 was obviously a priority pick in disguise because it was simply an unpalatable PR situation giving us one outright, but nudging up our compensation for Frawley allowed them to help us in stealth. So what's the problem? They've now cornered themselves into a situation where lowly clubs are better off pushing out their free agents and rorting the compensation because the threshold of band 1 now has a lowly precedent. $500k will be peanuts for clubs in a few years. All and sundry now discuss compensation for Brisbane and Carlton as if pick 2 and 4 are a fait accompli. Disastrously for the AFL, they desperately need Brisbane to get the kid who Carlton will now take with pick 2 compo if, as expected, they push out Kreuzer (Carlton withdrew their contract to Kreuzer upon hearing what money other clubs are offering him, realising the likelihood of getting pick 2). So once again, the AFL are caught with their pants down, and their inability to be transparent in their decision making has created yet another rort for clubs to legally exploit; if clubs sense a free agent is leaving, it now benefits teams to sink on the ladder for a year and secure two high draft picks before climbing up again. This is worse than the old priority pick rules (two seasons at the bottom) which no modern club would willingly do just to get one extra first rounder. The problem is, while pick 3 was overs for Frawley, their only alternative was a wholly inadequate end-of-first rounder for a club in dire need of help. But surely we're past the point of farce if Carlton can get pick 2 for Kreuzer and Brisbane can get pick 4 for Leuenberger. The most pathetic irony of the situation though? Carlton tanked to get Kreuzer and are now rorting the system once again to get compensation for his departure. Another absolute farce of a situation created by the geniuses at AFL House who should've been transparent in the first place about our compensation for Frawley. Surely the most logical solution here is to limit band 1 compo to begin after pick 10, so the first pick after the year's non-finalists. With these 10 teams all striving to get up the ladder, and the negative ripple affect that compensation has inside the precious top 10 picks, it's simply too detrimental on the numerous struggling clubs in desperate need of high-end talent. The AFL were forced to change the PP rules because teams found out how to exploit it; well, it hasn't taken them long to discover how to exploit this. The rewards for losing are once again becoming far greater than the rewards for winning.

There were many reasons to savour Melbourne's victory over the GWS Giants including the fact that we managed to rise above St Kilda on the final home and away ladder. I know the Saints beat us twice this year including once under controversial circumstances but the fact remains that, apart from those two victories, they won only 4½ games for the season. Yet every man and his dog is predicting that the Saints are the next big thing along with the Bulldogs. This is what Shane Crawford wrote in the Sunday paper:- Shane Crawford looks into his crystal ball and predicts what 2018 will look like It's not only Crawford talking up the Saints. I heard Tim Watson saying much the same thing about them on SEN this morning and previously, other commentators have also been bullish about them.So what does Crawf have to say about the team which finished up one place in front of St Kilda:- Fair call. We are going through a long rebuilding phase but in my book, we have better youthful talent than St Kilda and one of the main reasons why they beat us twice was the influence of their more experienced types. In 2 to 3 year's time they won't have the likes of Riewoldt, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert, Dempster and Ray in their lineup so I'm not buying the Saints hype.

Sandy's the footy commentary equivalent of your senile grandfather - a shadow of the great man he was. But you know what he used to be, and that he can't help it, so you turn a blind eye when you catch him urinating in the bathtub because he is confused about where he is. Derwayne is your douchebag uncle, who gets shitfaced, bullies all the kids and pinches all the girls butts, then wonders why they stop coming to his BBQs. He's always been a jerk and you'll never offer him any benefit of the doubt. Your family sounds like a real hoot DA!

Mick owed us something after giving us neeld

Please treat this issue with respect.

The thing that impresses me about Garlett is the speed in which his brain operates. That pass to Hogan was a split second decision as Hogan appeared in his sight. It helps that he's also got the skill and foot speed to go with it. Still can't believe we got him for a packet of stale twisties. Thanks again Mick.

Not sure the AFL would be happy with it, but if you think it'll help then do us proud buddy.

I like that idea. Carlisle to the PSD Bombers get nothing. Carlisle banned for 2 years. Blues get nothing It's perfect!

Agree OD, if Hogan leaves after two flags, he'll have my begrudging blessing...

You're right, I definitely think we shouldn't speculate if it has anything to do with a drugs cover up or anything similar. That would be in bad taste.

I've been rabbiting on about this all year. They are continually led by the same group of older players - Riewoldt, Montagna, Steven, Armitage, Dempster, Schneider, Fisher, Gilbert. All from the GF era they had. Their kids just piggy back off them. They will be a much different proposition when the older players finish up. And despite having that core GF group, they finished the year on 6.5 wins. That's one fewer win than Melbourne, and the same number of wins as Essendon, a basket case. Five of their six wins were against the bottom 6 (Melbourne x 2, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Essendon), with their sixth win against the Dogs. Compare that with us for example, we had 5 wins against teams with 11+ wins (Richmond, Bulldogs, Geelong, Collingwood, GWS). Put all that together and at the very, very least we should be being spoken about in the same way as the Saints, but every single media report and commentator will gush about the Saints while suggesting we are nowhere near it. It can be blatant (Crawford) or it can be subtle (commentators on the weekend when GWS was struggling to move the ball pinned it on GWS having a bad day until Brad Johnson thought maybe it was our pressure. I guarantee if it was St Kilda and not Melbourne the first thing they all would have said would have been 'gee what wonderful pressure St Kilda are bringing'). They've exceeded expectations for this year, and they've brought positivity and intensity to most of their games. But I cannot stand the way they are discussed compared to us, not just because it's annoying, but because it's wrong. Mind you, we don't really get anywhere by focusing on what's happening at St Kilda. But it still infuriates me.

Pick 3 wasn't overs for Frawley, though. That's based upon an entirely subjective interpretation of his value, which is only determined by his salary. Salary + finishing position = compensation If those same players were leaving top teams the pick would be higher. So many on here cry about equalisation and this system actually adequately compensates poor teams that lose players with high market value. The only way to determine a player's value is salary. Any other interpretation is merely subjective.

The AFL doesn’t make mistakes.

And don't we love his unadulterated smile! The face of a boy who has been a Demon supporter all his life. He is living his dream and good on him.

Not really, no.

Having just watched the game again, I can safely say that the Grimes Bashers have absolutely no F***ing idea what they're talking about. He dropped a mark and cost us a goal. That's his one big mistake from that game. Quite a few of the more popular players also cost us goals doing stupid things, but they don't rate a mention apparently. As for turnovers, you can't blame him when he gets a hospital pass and manages to get the ball away legally in the half second before he's hit. That's on the person passing to him (yes Nate Jones, I'm talking about you). That may count as a disposal error, but the reality is that it's someone elses mistake that's being added to his tally. The reality is that he's simply the latest whipping boy for the usual suspects who need someone to rag on.

In the mid season review Roos had him as the most consistent player. Not alot changed in the second half. Garland has played in the backline on smalls, talls and resting mids in the worst side of the last decade. He can hold his head high over that time. You can't have a team off 22 leaders so I can't understand why lack of "leadership" is being held against him. I'll be very surprised if Garland wants to leave or if Melbourne want to offload him. Expect him to be in our best 22 next year.

Someone put a GPS unit on Roos to check if he is flying up to the GC to get a cup of coffee.

I have criticised Roos over the effort that our players have put in - particularly over the past 7 weeks. You simply cannot have the ridiculous 1st quarter efforts that we have had and not sheet that blame home to the coach. He backs his players, fine. But when those players don't perform he rightly should feel heat. There is a consequence of the players playing like that and that is lost respect from supporters, media, sponsors, the AFL etc. The club wears pain of those efforts. There are some here that fell he can't be questioned - on anything. Clearly that is wrong. We knew the road would be bumpy but the first non-negotiable is effort. Not for one qtr, not for 2 qtrs but for a whole game. Brayshaw is a good example. He impact has waned over the second half of the season which is to be expected. But his effort has never waned. Puts in for 120 mins a game. That is what supporter want to see. 22 guys putting in like a first year player does. Its not that hard. To gloss over our poor performances with 'we are better than last year' is just a crap argument that we are sick of hearing. On Roos: Has he been good for the club. Absolutely. Is he paid too much. I CGAF what he is paid.Its irrelevant and secondary to the job he is doing Is he above criticism. Definitely not.

Well done Viv, really worked hard and deserved his promotion to the senior team which he backed up with some good form at the end of the season.

Agree it's a rort in regards to Carlton but think anything that allows bottom clubs to get back on their feet with extra top end picks is a good thing. This club knows better than most the difficulty in getting talent back onto a list via the draft. More concerned with top clubs picking the eyes out of the bottom teams. Would like to see top 6 clubs each year barred from acquiring free agents along the lines of the NFL model.

Jeff also is very unselfish too. One of Hogan's goals was beautifully set up by Garlett. Love his tenacious tackling and chasing.

Roos is a great builder - a team builder, a list builder, and a club builder. He has great intelligence and integrity, and above all, leadership quality. There is no doubt that he & PJ have done an outstanding job in building the club. His list building has been sensational so far, and no doubt will be extended over the next few months. The team building has been solid in that he's given us a team structure that, when we can maintain it, we are actually very hard to beat. But this structure has been pulled apart too easily by too many other sides through careful planning & strategy, which we haven't been able to counter. Roos' preference is to let the players work it out, and while that worked great for the Swans team from 2005 to 2010 (and after), it hasn't had the same impact with this team in 2015. It's now an ideal time for someone to step in who's a "modern" (for want of a better word) coach. A "modern" coach has usually had intensive formal study of every element of the game, including strategy & tactics, and has had an apprenticeship of several years as part of a strong coaching panel with successful clubs in whom they've had an influential aspect is some way, before they take over a team that's lower on the ladder but which shows promise. Roos, in fact, had none of these. He was drafted in as interim coach when Eade was sacked, and did so well that at the end of the year, the players forced the club to renege on the deal they'd made with Wallace. The Swans' strategy was pretty straightforward, but they had a great team with great leaders and that's all they needed. It's worth considering that apart from Roos, there are only 3 senior coaches in 2010 when Roos retired who are still coaching now - Clarko & Lyon (who are outstanding innovators who have the ability to reinvent themselves and their teams) and good ol' Rocket. All the other 14 teams have "modern" coaches who have all come in over the past 5 years. There's been a generational change. Over the past two years we've needed, above all else, Roos' leadership, and his building of our team, our list & our club. We'll need him to continue all this next year. But it's now time for a "modern" coach to counter the plans & strategies by which our structure has been pulled apart, or maybe to give us a "game plan" that will hold together under pressure no matter how hard the other side tries to pull it apart. I hope to God that Goody's the guy - though there's every reason to believe that he is. I think the timing is perfect. The thing I most admire about Roos is that while he knows what he's the best at, he also knows his limitations. He's not the egomaniac control freak who has to have a hand in everything. He's big on bringing others forward where he's lacking, and he's big on succession planning. Like only the greatest of leaders.

Are you high?

Jordan Lewis said he's never heard about this and he's shocked. Yet the Swans knew about it when they signed him? Forgive me if I'm my usual cynical self.

Haha! Wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't in the bath at the time, Nash.

Clubs generally don't do this sort of thing to each other. There is a thing called 'good will' and GCS know that if they burnt a rival club in such a manner it could potentially come back and bite them on the arse.

I couldn't handle seeing his name spelled wrong on here every night for another 7 or 8 years, to be honest.

Keep fighting Barney. There are moments of light in life that make it all worthwhile. Sometimes everything seems futile and worthless but it is the struggle that counts.

Didn't you guys see Viney on the weekend. If you remember at the start of the year hardly any of his possessions ended in a Melbourne players hands, he has come a long way. I'd suggest he's actually ahead of Sam Mitchell at the same stage of his career and every chance of becoming a better player by the end of it, hopefully just as decorated. Its all very well to be critical especially when we play like we did against Carlton and Essendon but give some credit to the coaches, I reckon they would be tickled pink with Viney's game on the weekend. This is just one of those negative threads that goes nowhere. Stuff Sam Mitchell, I wouldn't trade Viney for him even if he came with a first round draft pick. Some people go looking for gold when they have it lying around in their own back yard!

Injury affected, he had such a great 2014 I think everyone expected him to go onwards and upwards with it but clearly he didn't get a clean run at it this year. I think he needs to have a clean pre-season and hopefully we'll be able to chalk this year up to bad luck.

How about we worry about winning games. Everything stems from that.

Particularly if offered a similar deal to Buddy. The whole loyalty thing is bollocks in my eyes. It's their job and they have a short window to make it pay.

Carlton get him and hes banned two years by WADA. Laughs ensue.

He's a good player no doubt, but don't see where he fits in. He's a ruckman first and not a forward who rucks which is what we need.

On SEN today Dr Turf made it known he was at Etihad with his daughter and was asked by KB what he thought of Watts getting dropped. He thought that Jack would be better off somewhere else. He did say that he thought Jack should stay but has changed his mind and thought that he would be better elsewhere. I suspect what the daughter heard may well be true.

Yep, this was covered in the Derwayne thread. It was Lynch and Johnson that had that dialogue. It's pretty frustrating when you just know they are speaking complete garbage. Salem was good before the injury and has been good since coming back, but we get told he has second year blues. He also barely touched the ball as a forward and was in and out of the side last year. He's taken a big step forward this year, even with the injury. I get that the commentators can't know the ins and outs of every player, but it would be nice if they didn't resort to just making shit up when they don't know what they're on about.

I think it gets missed in the hype about Hogan but his quick hands and brain are a delight to behold. Some of the handpasses were fantastic. There was one rocket to newton that he fired off after he took the ball out of the air AND before he hit the ground. He has done things like that quite a few times this year. For a big bloke to have skills and a quick mind like that is quite incredible. And for that goose Leigh Mathews to say he is not a ground player is freaking ridiculous.

Nailed it praha, it's a default expectation, and a default commentary. It's also reflected in the level of ignorance as to our players, such as Howe constantly referenced as a forward, Jesse Hogan no good when the ball hits the ground (Leigh Matthews), first year players referred to as 50 + gamers. We just don't crack much of a thought other than to the astute observer. It's annoying, but it's going to change. It'll take knocking off a top 4 side once or twice to do it, but we probably should be happy to fly under the radar for a while longer.

They don't have Hogan /End thread

Yep, like the sickening request from O'Rourke to go to Hawthorn. As Roos says, the players don't need free agency! The system works already, and clubs don't get screwed.

How good was his one on one contest he won on the wing where he ran full pace at the contest and just won the hard ball and just burst away with it. Got the crowd up and going. A good family friend of ours and a genuine top kid.

I've said before and I'll say it again, St Kilda haven't even finished going down yet. They've drafted well and have had good selections on account of losing Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy. But they are massively dependent on their older players, in particular one of either Montagna or Riewoldt has been their best on ground in almost every game. I've been doing some end-ofseason reviewing of my own (an 'article' of sorts will come soon, I'm sure everything can't wait). Melbourne have had a very strange season. The four losses against other bottom 6 teams (st kildax2, Essendon, Carlton) mean we come out with only two wins over the bottom six, the equal lowest of any club. But here's the rub - the bottom six teams between them only managed 12 wins and two draws against opponents outside the bottom six. And Melbourne accounts for five of those wins. St Kilda, in contrast, only managed one win and one draw outside the bottom 6. I'd rather be having embarrassing lapses against bottom teams than be stuck relying on a handful of venerable champions to drag us over the line against other poor opponents. Contrasting us with St Kilda is possibly the best way to get me in a good mood about our future. Also, Shane Crawford and Tim Watson are so far from astute it is a comfort to be written off by them!

Just for a little injection of reality here. Grimes had 3 clangers. White had 2. That still gives Grimes the better result by a fair margin. Ignoring your bias, Grimes has repeatedly stood up when needed this year and is a far better defender than any of you give him credit for. White has the potential to go past him, but he's nowhere near it yet.

On balance I think Roos has been really good for the club but like everything there is good and bad. Those wanting to make a case against can do it based around some poor periods on game day and some rather questionable comments about the past and supporters. They can rightly query his commitment given he was only ever a two to three year coach. The case for is that we have obviously improved. We now look like a footy club, much of the damage of the past FD has been fixed and Roos would have been one of the very few people with enough credits to rectify the carnage perpetrated by previous FD's and administrations. I'm not sure anyone could have done better. If we'd taken a rookie coach and performed at this level there would have been serious questions over his future and if we'd taken someone experienced but less successful we'd be seriously questioned now. Many question Roos' salary. I reckon he's probably paid for it through additional memberships and sponsorships. I think he's been invaluable in making the place attractive to players like Vince (a huge win), Tyson and Lumumba (disappointing) and perhaps his greatest achievement is providing an environment where our young players have been prepared to commit. Many have rightly questioned the succession plan. I think it's been very successful. If Roos' tenure had been open ended imagine the conjecture now or worse still if he decided he didn't want to do it anymore. Roos at least stopped us heading quickly to oblivion. We've now got a stable platform from which to improve. I'm glad he came, I wish we'd improved quicker. Jackson is a very smart strategist. I think he's thought this through very well and got the right person initially. Let's hope Goodwin is a win as well.